Miracle Man in mahogany body?

[Studiostriver]

Hi to all!
I had no luck I guess,my old computer died.Buying a new one makes me suffer,even more waiting.Buy my pair of bare knuckles will have to wait...
Well ,i have a lot of time know to think,questions starts coming again,and one of them is:
"Is the Miracle Man(bridge) the right choice for Mahogany body 7 string guitar?
To be precise (maple top)/mahogany neck / rosewood fretboard..

I heard some clips of basswood/alder guitars which is far from mahogany and sounded great.I am just a little suspicious is it gonna sound muddy due to a 80% guitar is mahogany and despite that even 7 string?

I need your opinion on this one please..
Thanks in advance,Studiostriver.

[Dave Sloven]

It probably depends on how much mahogany and how the guitar is constructed (e.g, how thick, set-neck or bolt-neck, etc).  When I asked about a MM in my Explorer people who had experience of MM in Gibson Explorers said it would probably be muddy.  My Explorer is actually korina though, it is Epiphone not Gibson, and thus might be a bit brighter. I ended up with an A-pig in that guitar and it was fine.

On the other hand, the MM is a highly-recommended pickup for SGs.  We would need to know more than just the fact that it's made from mahogany.  Does it sound like an especially dark guitar acoustically?  SGs have a 'ring' to them when you strike them with your fist (not too hard!), with bright mids.

[Studiostriver]

It probably depends on how much mahogany and how the guitar is constructed (e.g, how thick, set-neck or bolt-neck, etc).  When I asked about a MM in my Explorer people who had experience of MM in Gibson Explorers said it would probably be muddy.  My Explorer is actually korina though, it is Epiphone not Gibson, and thus might be a bit brighter. I ended up with an A-pig in that guitar and it was fine.

On the other hand, the MM is a highly-recommended pickup for SGs.  We would need to know more than just the fact that it's made from mahogany.  Does it sound like an especially dark guitar acoustically?  SGs have a 'ring' to them when you strike them with your fist (not too hard!), with bright mids.

Well here is some basic info:

* Construction: Set-neck with Ultra Access
* Scale: 26.5"
* Tuning: B-E-A-D-G-B-E
* Body: Mahogany
* Top: Quilted maple
* Neck: 3-piece mahogany
* Fingerboard: Rosewood
* Frets: 24 extra-jumbo
* Inlays: Gothic cross
* Pickups: EMG Active 707-TW
* Electronics: 2 Vol with push/pull coil-splitting/Tone/3-Way Toggle Switch
* Bridge: Original Floyd Rose Tremolo
* Binding: Abalone
* Tuners: Grover
* Hardware: Black Chrome


My personal opinion that acousticly sound is not too dark,but rather has a very big bass sound.And guitar is heavy(weight) as hell.
I remmember well when I tested Jeff Loomis model I firstly just play chords unplugged,and then with Hellraiser I sad whoa,this is one mean m...f...r  :)  Very massive and warm sound,but I would not call it muudy...

EMG 707 TW i just found too scooped..I would decribe it by equalization something like this bass 7 mid 1/2 and highs 4/5

For neck I have no doubt,ColdSweat baby will sit very well...
But for bridge I am still thinking..First I was going for Nailbomb Ceramic,then Painkiller and then Mirace Man...

I liked Miracle Man beacuse of mid/bass meaty and again pronounce sound...

Cheers bro :shock:

[Dave Sloven]

For neck I have no doubt,ColdSweat baby will sit very well...
But for neck I am still thinking..First I was going for Nailbomb Ceramic,then Painkiller and then Mirace Man...

You mean the bridge, right?

I'm not sure how the maple top affects the overall tone, but basically I would make sure you can accurately describe (or as accurately as possible) the acoustic character of your guitar and what you want it to sound like, and then contact BKP.  It's also important to have realistic expectations regarding the amount of territory the pickup is expected to cover.  BKPs tend to have a fairly focused range of what they are good at, and do it brilliantly, rather than being bland jack-of-all-trades pickups.  Seems to me that you are looking to do the heavier end of things, somewhere in the metal genre.  It is a very broad genre though, so you would need to be specific about what the main core of what you are trying to achieve is, and then ask 'do you think it will stretch to X without problems' and maybe send a clip.

For example, when I asked about the options of a Cold Sweat versus a Miracle Man for my SG, the answer I got first was that I might be happier with the Miracle Man, because from the list of bands I have them as examples of what I wanted to cover it seemed very metal.  The facts of the matter were though that the heaviest band style I wanted to cover with that guitar (tuned to E or Eb standard) was the early Celtic Frost sound, whereas a lot of the rest of it was '70s and '80s rock and metal, with I guess the core being Judas Priest but stretching to Thin Lizzy in one direction and '80s Slayer in the other.  Celtic Frost is quite dark so I wanted to make sure it could do that well (maybe with the tone rolled off), so I gave Ben a clip of one of their songs, I think it was 'The Usurper', and restated what I said above regarding early '80s sounds being important to me and asking if the Cold Sweat could manage the CF stuff well.  With this information Ben was able to clearly say that I would probably be happier with the Cold Sweat and that it would be fine for CF, and thus cover all the metal ground that my Warpig-equipped down-tuned Explorer can't manage.  In a different guitar a Holy Diver could also have done a good job, but they don't work well with SGs.

If you haven't written to BKP yet I would suggest that you do so, as they are very helpful and know the pickups better than anyone, and of course have heard a lot of feedback regarding various applications.

[Studiostriver]

For neck I have no doubt,ColdSweat baby will sit very well...
But for neck I am still thinking..First I was going for Nailbomb Ceramic,then Painkiller and then Mirace Man...

You mean the bridge, right?

I'm not sure how the maple top affects the overall tone, but basically I would make sure you can accurately describe (or as accurately as possible) the acoustic character of your guitar and what you want it to sound like, and then contact BKP.  It's also important to have realistic expectations regarding the amount of territory the pickup is expected to cover.  BKPs tend to have a fairly focused range of what they are good at, and do it brilliantly, rather than being bland jack-of-all-trades pickups.  Seems to me that you are looking to do the heavier end of things, somewhere in the metal genre.  It is a very broad genre though, so you would need to be specific about what the main core of what you are trying to achieve is, and then ask 'do you think it will stretch to X without problems' and maybe send a clip.

For example, when I asked about the options of a Cold Sweat versus a Miracle Man for my SG, the answer I got first was that I might be happier with the Miracle Man, because from the list of bands I have them as examples of what I wanted to cover it seemed very metal.  The facts of the matter were though that the heaviest band style I wanted to cover with that guitar (tuned to E or Eb standard) was the early Celtic Frost sound, whereas a lot of the rest of it was '70s and '80s rock and metal, with I guess the core being Judas Priest but stretching to Thin Lizzy in one direction and '80s Slayer in the other.  Celtic Frost is quite dark so I wanted to make sure it could do that well (maybe with the tone rolled off), so I gave Ben a clip of one of their songs, I think it was 'The Usurper', and restated what I said above regarding early '80s sounds being important to me and asking if the Cold Sweat could manage the CF stuff well.  With this information Ben was able to clearly say that I would probably be happier with the Cold Sweat and that it would be fine for CF, and thus cover all the metal ground that my Warpig-equipped down-tuned Explorer can't manage.  In a different guitar a Holy Diver could also have done a good job, but they don't work well with SGs.

If you haven't written to BKP yet I would suggest that you do so, as they are very helpful and know the pickups better than anyone, and of course have heard a lot of feedback regarding various applications.

Yes i ment bridge,I rewrite it... :?


I love to many bands and metal genres that list will be so huge it will just confuse what sound I`m after.
So I`lll post just clips ,they will hit at right spot more:

For rhythm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRkc08_dR-0

start from 1 minute:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KKLrbpD9V0&list=PL0F061913B65AD2F2


For Solo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK0rvReE-4c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYmNT1kgl2M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7wnQfCzAog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFDS0t10zHg

[Dave Sloven]

Looking at those artists I'm going to suggest that you might want to take a closer look at the Cold Sweat.  I'm guessing you will be happier with that set than with the Miracle Man one.  I think it would be between that and the Holy Diver set.  Of the two the Cold Sweat (as a ceramic) would be closer to the Miracle Man, but you might decide you prefer the Holy Diver.  I'm pretty sure that you'd be safe with either.  The only mahogany guitar that the Holy Diver doesn't like is the SG, but your guitar doesn't sound anything like one of those.  The Cold Sweat is pretty much a safe bet in any mahogany guitar, like the Miracle Man (the Rebel Yell is also in that category, but I don't see any bands on your list that seem to be especially within its 'zone' so to speak).

[Studiostriver]

Looking at those artists I'm going to suggest that you might want to take a closer look at the Cold Sweat.  I'm guessing you will be happier with that set than with the Miracle Man one.  I think it would be between that and the Holy Diver set.  Of the two the Cold Sweat (as a ceramic) would be closer to the Miracle Man, but you might decide you prefer the Holy Diver.  I'm pretty sure that you'd be safe with either.  The only mahogany guitar that the Holy Diver doesn't like is the SG, but your guitar doesn't sound anything like one of those.  The Cold Sweat is pretty much a safe bet in any mahogany guitar, like the Miracle Man (the Rebel Yell is also in that category, but I don't see any bands on your list that seem to be especially within its 'zone' so to speak).

Thanks for your reply bro. So you think Coldsweat even for a bridge will get me closer to sound of the rhythm guitar?
I like how they sound in one hand,but somehow maybe too little raw and less precise...I would like to have that percussive tight characteristics when playing fast pulm muting,but the main sound that will stay in mid bass territory,not in mid like lets say like Aftermath.

[Dave Sloven]

I haven't actually used a Cold Sweat bridge yet.  I have one on the way from BKP so my knowledge of it is based on clips and what others have said, plus a recommendation from Ben at BKP.  My choice was basically between that and the Miracle Man.  I decided that while I wanted that area where they overlap the heavier, downtuned stuff was already covered by the A-pig in my other guitar, and I have an A-bomb that I can use for abrasive hardcore stuff and some metal like Sepultura.

I have a Cold Sweat neck, it is very nice.

I'm not sure on which might be closer to Arch Enemy, the Cold Sweat or the Miracle Man, but I think it falls in that overlap between them that I'm talking about.  I think you will find the CS to be preferable for the other stuff you've listed.  The Yngwie clip I think the Cold Sweat would have the edge on the MM for sure, but there might be other pickups in the BKP range that are closer.  I think the neck would be very good for that though, at least as far as humbuckers go.

[Studiostriver]

I haven't actually used a Cold Sweat bridge yet.  I have one on the way from BKP so my knowledge of it is based on clips and what others have said, plus a recommendation from Ben at BKP.  My choice was basically between that and the Miracle Man.  I decided that while I wanted that area where they overlap the heavier, downtuned stuff was already covered by the A-pig in my other guitar, and I have an A-bomb that I can use for abrasive hardcore stuff and some metal like Sepultura.

I have a Cold Sweat neck, it is very nice.

I'm not sure on which might be closer to Arch Enemy, the Cold Sweat or the Miracle Man, but I think it falls in that overlap between them that I'm talking about.  I think you will find the CS to be preferable for the other stuff you've listed.  The Yngwie clip I think the Cold Sweat would have the edge on the MM for sure, but there might be other pickups in the BKP range that are closer.  I think the neck would be very good for that though, at least as far as humbuckers go.

From Bare Knuckle official demo clips,to me bridge have big sound but somehow"roarring"little bit and lack thightness.I like where they sitting in frequency term of speaking..
Sound color is great,if they are just a little bit tighter I will have no doubts..

Miracle man still sound more great to my ears for bridge,more sharper definetily but mid bass tightness is just wonderfull...

Is there anyone here who is tested MM with mahogany body guitar?

I need little more opinions please to get final thought..
Also it do not have to be Bare Knuckle for bridge,suggest any pickup for 7 String guitar that will sit for this kind of sounds from previous clips post.

Please.

[Dave Sloven]

Cold Sweat neck and Miracle Man bridge is a popular combination in SGs. You can lower the bridge and raise the neck to balance the output between them a bit if you play with both pickups much (personally I don't tend to).

I'm not sure why people said that a Miracle Man can be very dark in an Explorer, whereas it's considered perfect for an SG.  I think it's a matter of different construction and perhaps the sheer mass of wood behind the bridge on an Explorer.  I've not read negative comments about the Miracle Man in a Les Paul, which is a big hunk of mahogany (admittedly generally with a maple top).

I'm sure others will comment, but I think the best resource is the wisdom at BKP

[Alex]

Hi

Arch Enemy sound = Holy Diver or Miracle Man, depending on the guitar.

I use the MM and play some AE songs, it works really well for their sound. I also had a Holy Diver and it does the lead sounds even better, but in the case of my guitar I needed something with a bit more presence and brightness on the low end (baritone, tuned to B standard). So normally I'd say Holy Diver for that type of sound, but I do think you need to ascertain yourself how bright and defined your guitar is on the lower strings.

To add - that intermezzo liberte is played on Seymour Duncan JB in the bridge - Mike used that pickup for many years - the Holy Diver is closest to that.

[Studiostriver]

Hi

Arch Enemy sound = Holy Diver or Miracle Man, depending on the guitar.

I use the MM and play some AE songs, it works really well for their sound. I also had a Holy Diver and it does the lead sounds even better, but in the case of my guitar I needed something with a bit more presence and brightness on the low end (baritone, tuned to B standard). So normally I'd say Holy Diver for that type of sound, but I do think you need to ascertain yourself how bright and defined your guitar is on the lower strings.

To add - that intermezzo liberte is played on Seymour Duncan JB in the bridge - Mike used that pickup for many years - the Holy Diver is closest to that.

Hi Alex,I think you are right about Holy Diver.I listened some demos how they sound in Les Paul (mahogany) guitars and absolutely loved what I have heard so far. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrHxhfLSoC8
JB sounds good and balanced from this clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFO9phrDBig
but SH-5 even better.

I thinks that"my"7th string is very articulate,definetely not muddy by any criterium,just very massive (not unbalanced  8) ).

I put another neck pickup in the game for neck,just to ask for your opinions? What you think about Trilogy neck in compare to Coldswet?
I`m ment of course will it fit better for music style and list of musicians i put in post above?

And i write to BKPto ask their opinion too.

(And beside all these chat I`m even re-think selling my guitar and made custom guitar,i spoke to our great luthier here...
But again guitar it will have mahogany body/neck for sure,i like that meaty sound,so for spec i think wood type will be the same,except i will put some bubinga top,not maple...)  :shock:

Cheers and thank you both guys for taking time to write your thoughts. :P

[Alex]

I don't know the Cold Sweat, I've used the Miracle Man and Holy Diver.
About the matching singles, I guess you can just email the BKP team and as what would fit with a HD.

[Studiostriver]

Answer(s) from BKP:

"Hi,The Cold Sweats could be a good option I think. "
After i ask for a little more tight and less roarring sound they sad:
"The Cold Sweat bridge is very tight. If you want tighter then you'll need maybe the Painkiller or Aftermath."
After i asked would be better match for rhythm Holy Diver or Miracle man,and also ask how split coil Coldsweat sounds,and my sympathy for Trilogy neck they sad:
"If you want clarity and bass response then the Cold Sweat bridge is better for you than the HD and MM.
Yes you can split the Cold Sweat neck but it will be nowhere near as fat as the Trilogy Suite."

And that will be it.  8)

[Dave Sloven]

You are going with a Cold Sweat set? Let us know your thoughts on it when you have them fitted.