Unhappy with results when recording guitars with an SM57

[Muttley]

Created a new thread for this as is was going a bit off-topic in the Players section I think...

Original thread was here: http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3013

I thought SM57 was good for home recording...it isnt  :)

why??? arent they exactly what's used in pretty much every mic'd amp situation ever? should sound nice, no?

I'm running it into a M-audio firewire solo and it just dosnt sound good at all, I'm quite dissapointed. If you go to http://www.soundclick.com/williamthorpe and listen to 'Demo 01 (without midrange)' you will see what I mean. Just sounds fuzzy and cr@p :(

Where are you placing the mic?  What amp?  What amp settings? How is the room setup around the speaker?

There are huge amounts of variables in play there, but the SM57 has been used on practically every classic rock/metal album in the last 20-odd years.  There's nothing wrong with the mic.  I've got perfectly good results recording at home with one.

Oh, and it sounds like you may have left your computer monitor on when you were recording, sounds like there's lots of noise through your pickups that can be caused by inteference from a CRT.

Muttley

The monitor is off when I record. I'm running a Les Paul into a DSL 401 amp settings: Mid: 2 o'clock ish Treb: 12 o'clock Bass 1 o'clock ish Gain: 10o'clock downwards, I usually have it higher, but it sounded worse.

I'm running the sm57 into a whurlwind xlr cable into an m-audio firewire solo > Audacity.

Not used that amp before, but to me that guitar sounds very muddy with hardly any mids.  And mids are the most important frequency range for heavy guitars.

Gain is almost always backed off for recording purposes, mainly because almost all guitars on albums are multi-tracked and so less-gain becomes more when they're layered.

Some examples of some home recordings of my own:

Rhythm track played on a JEM7BSB straight into my JMP1 (no effects), that goes into a 9100 valve power amp and then a 4x12 1960a cab.  This was close miced with one SM57 which then went into my Soundcraft mixer mic pre's and then an M-Audio Delta 66.  Recorded in Cakewalk SONAR: http://www.muttleyville.org/downloads/mp3/junk/JEM7BSB-JMP1.mp3

Here's the lead track, recorded in exactly the same way: http://www.muttleyville.org/downloads/mp3/junk/JEM7BSB-JMP1-Lead.mp3

These are the raw takes, with no processing on them at all.  In the final song I layered 4 guitar parts.  2 recorded with my JEM and 2 with my SG.  And I used 2 different JMP1 patches to make sure that the guitar tracks didn't sound too similar.  They were also NOT recorded at bedroom levels (I had the house to myself for the day luckily ;)).

After mixing and adding some nasty MIDI drums and bass (and vocals :oops:), the final result was this: Teenage Kicks (John Peel Tribute)

I just feel it sounds really really 'grainy' or 'tinny' nothing smooth or crunchy about it with the microphone. I usually have it off centre of the middle of the speaker with about 2 inches away from the grille, any sugestions? Thanks for the help :)

Edit: the monitor was probably on listening to that, whoops :)

Try setting the SM57 in the dead centre of the speaker cone, as close to the grill as you can without touching.  Try recording at a louder volume.

Finally don't forget the the mic is pickup up the guitar reasonable uncoloured from the speaker, whereas when you listen to the amp you're hearing all kinds of reflections from the room it's in.  You may need to tweak your usual sound a bit get a decent recording sound.

Anyway, HTH.

Muttley

[Muttley]

The things you have to remeber about recording with an SM 57 is that it is usually blended with another mic. I agree, im not a huge fan of the SM 57 on guitars, i prefer consender mics like a Neumann ( yeah about a £700 difference )

You're more likely to see just multiple layers of guitar than multiple mic's.  Although one technique I've seen used it two SM57s on pointing straight at the cone and the other slightly off-axis to one side.  You don't seem to get as much definition with this technique though.

and this is why i record with a Pod XT.

With it's SM57 emulation?  ;)

Also if you cant turn the amp loud enough there is no point in recording with a 57.

Yeah, it needs to be loud.  Valve Amps working hard sound different, and so do speakers for that matter.

Muttley

[sgmypod]

http://www.thdelectronics.com/products/hotplate.htm

could always get one of these....turn the amp up loud for the beautiful sound but not so loud you don't get a good sound through the mic

[Cattivo Ragazzo]

I don't like the sm57 on it's own. For best results use it with akg 414's, or for budget use it with a akg c1000 s.

[38thBeatle]

For the money, SM57s are great in my opinion. Having said that, there are lots of mic's that are available now for those of us on a budget that are acceptable. I have stage mic's ( SM58s) which I have to use for just about anything I do at home -not ideal but as I don't live in Abbey Road it has to do. I was looking at those SE mics a while back- they seem to get good write ups from Sound On Sound and they are reasonably priced.

[Muttley]

I've heard some comparisons between an SM57 and an Audix i5, and the i5 sounds a little more open (IYSWIM), I've never tried using a C1000S, and seeing as I have one (mainly use it for acoustic guitar and vocals) I really should give it a whirl.  :)

Muttley

[Muttley]

Actually I've found them.

Producer Andy Sneap (Arch Enemy, Blaze, Nevermore, Kreator, Testament, Exodus... the list goes on) did some comparisons with different cabs/speakers and mics.  The amp and guitar track are identical throughout (reamped), so you can really hear the difference.

http://www.andysneap.com/media/speakers/

Full thread here: http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=213350

Muttley

[Cattivo Ragazzo]

I've heard some comparisons between an SM57 and an Audix i5, and the i5 sounds a little more open (IYSWIM), I've never tried using a C1000S, and seeing as I have one (mainly use it for acoustic guitar and vocals) I really should give it a whirl.  :)

Muttley

You never tried it?? :shock: You should set all of your mics up, record something, then solo each one and see what you think! Another good dynamic mic is the Sennheiser MD421II. I think the C1000s is good about 8 - 10" away from the cab.

[Muttley]

I've heard some comparisons between an SM57 and an Audix i5, and the i5 sounds a little more open (IYSWIM), I've never tried using a C1000S, and seeing as I have one (mainly use it for acoustic guitar and vocals) I really should give it a whirl.  :)

Muttley

You never tried it?? :shock: You should set all of your mics up, record something, then solo each one and see what you think! Another good dynamic mic is the Sennheiser MD421II. I think the C1000s is good about 8 - 10" away from the cab.

I know, I know.  ;)

I've been scuppered recently due to lack of time, due in part to my little (now) 6 month old.  Due to his arrival my music room is now a nursery and I won't get a new music room until we move house.  :(

Muttley

[lp_man]

I think I'm hitting two problems;

-I'm not playing loud enough (semi-detatched, usually crank it at band practices)
-I'm not adding compression or altering the eq afterwards

Putting the sm57 right up to the grille really helped though, I think its because the gain on the firewire solo is almost at the top level, so I need to turn it up to lower that, but I'll need to wait for them to go on holiday or something, bit of a pain in the ass really.

So if I want to record at lower volumes, what options do I have? New microphone? I've heard that the PG57 is good for the price, listen to a comparison here: http://www.shelleygrund.com/recording/Recordings.htm Now that guy has some serious tone!

[Muttley]

I think I'm hitting two problems;

-I'm not playing loud enough (semi-detatched, usually crank it at band practices)

Probably

-I'm not adding compression or altering the eq afterwards

1st off, distorted guitar is already compressed to buggery before it even comes out the speaker.  You don't really need to add much (if any) compression.

2ndly, get the sound you want at the initial recording, even if it means changing your usual amp settings.  Avoid EQ wherever possible, as it inevitably degrades the sound quality of your recording (more so when you boost frequencies than cut them, but nevertheless...)

Putting the sm57 right up to the grille really helped though, I think its because the gain on the firewire solo is almost at the top level, so I need to turn it up to lower that, but I'll need to wait for them to go on holiday or something, bit of a pain in the ass really.

So if I want to record at lower volumes, what options do I have? New microphone? I've heard that the PG57 is good for the price, listen to a comparison here: http://www.shelleygrund.com/recording/Recordings.htm Now that guy has some serious tone!

Seriously, if you can't crank a small amo loud enough to record properly at home, I'd be tempted to go the Amp Modelling/Simulator route for demos, with either the software Guitar Rig, or a PODxt.

You could always split your signal and record the raw guitar sound to a separate track for reamping later when the neighbours are away.

I would definitely try and get better results from your current gear first though, there's no reason at all that you shouldn't be able to get decent results out of what you've got.

Muttley

[lp_man]

I really dont like the POD xt models, but I do have guitar rig and guitar rig2 that I'm borrowing off a friend, which is what I used for the riff raff clips. I'll give a go turning my amp up and hope that the neighbours dont kill me!

[lp_man]

By thw way Muttley that is a very good recording! What do you use for recording into and the drums?

[Muttley]

By thw way Muttley that is a very good recording! What do you use for recording into and the drums?

Thanks mate.  I'm not particularly happy with the mix, I think I got carried away with the new mastering plugin I'd just got.  ;)

The basic recording chain for that was:

Guitars:  JEM and SG -> JMP1 Preamp -> 9100 Power Amp -> 1960A Cab -> SM57 (close mic'ed) -> Soundcraft Spirit M8 mixer -> M-Audio Delta 66 -> Cakewalk SONAR Producer (4 at the time, but I've since upgraded to version 5)

Vocals (and claps):  Me -> AKG C 1000 S Mic -> Soundcraft Spirit M8 mixer -> M-Audio Delta 66 -> Cakewalk SONAR

Drums:  MIDI programmed (bu hand) using the Sonic Implants Blue Jay Large Ambient 1 soundfont.  Using the free rgc:audio sfz soundfont player as a MIDI instriment in SONAR

Bass: Same as above but using the Sonic Implants Heavy Pick Bass Soundfont.

Then for the final mix I overused iZotope's Ozone 3 ;)

I've since upgraded the soundcard to a Delta 1010 so I have more inputs to play with (wanna try and record a full drumkit soon)

HTH

Muttley

Muttley

[sambo]

i dont think is the problem at all but this thread is complicated lol...

anyway it might help some people a little.... then again... it might not:

http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=4737

theres a link to micing videos there for all kinda of guitars and drums e.t.c...