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Author Topic: has anyone tried using a signal splitter + octave pedal to emulate a bass?  (Read 15377 times)

gwEm

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Re: has anyone tried using a signal splitter + octave pedal to emulate a bass?
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2014, 11:46:31 PM »
Thanks for the input Blue, very useful.

I read this review on the Boss website about the OC3. It does root notes with chords. Could be the answer. Ought to be easy to try in almost any music store.

http://www.roland.co.uk/assets/media/pdf/Boss%20OC-3%20Review%20in%20Performing%20Musician.pdf

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blue

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Re: has anyone tried using a signal splitter + octave pedal to emulate a bass?
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2014, 12:28:27 AM »
that does sound like in the polyphonic mode it'll only play the low note.  very interesting.  looks like you've found your pedal :) 
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Plenum n Heather

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Re: has anyone tried using a signal splitter + octave pedal to emulate a bass?
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2014, 01:29:28 AM »
That does, indeed, look like a pithy answer to your dilemma. Certainly worth a shot!

And, yes, the FC200 does indeed send Note Change, including octave up and down, data. It will also do Program Change, Contol (start/stop/play and other transport controls for your sampler or DAW) and SysEx for use with other Roland gear. The pedal can be used as a volume or expression pedal and has SIX jacks for external switches. MIDI in and out. A little picey, but super versatile! And it can take batteries or external power supply.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 01:31:02 AM by Plenum n Heather »

bucketshred

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Re: has anyone tried using a signal splitter + octave pedal to emulate a bass?
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2014, 08:43:43 AM »
That does, indeed, look like a pithy answer to your dilemma. Certainly worth a shot!

And, yes, the FC200 does indeed send Note Change, including octave up and down, data. It will also do Program Change, Contol (start/stop/play and other transport controls for your sampler or DAW) and SysEx for use with other Roland gear. The pedal can be used as a volume or expression pedal and has SIX jacks for external switches. MIDI in and out. A little picey, but super versatile! And it can take batteries or external power supply.

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Alex

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Re: has anyone tried using a signal splitter + octave pedal to emulate a bass?
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2014, 10:06:42 AM »
There was a band that used to do this after their bass player died. They were featured in Guitar World once.

What he did was to use an additional pickup (I think an actual bass pickup), either between the two pickups or squeezed in between bridge pickup and bridge. That second signal went into an octaver and into a separate bass amp. I heard the band and it sounded tight and good, quite powerful (essential you're mixing an octaved bass signal to the guitar after all), but of course every note was the same as the guitar.

I'm not sure why he went into all the trouble of installing a separate pickup system on the guitar and didn't just split the normal humbucker signal, but I'm guessing it was the sound that mattered. I think maybe you could do something similar with the hexaphonic pickup from Boss/Roland and their midi signal, which would be far less invasive. In any case, as I see it the factors that make basses sound like basses are:
- scale
- thickness of strings
- tuning
- bass pickup
- bass amp

So simply octaving a signal omits the 4 other parts. Just think why an 8-string guitar still sounds more like a guitar than a bass.
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Plenum n Heather

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Re: has anyone tried using a signal splitter + octave pedal to emulate a bass?
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2014, 12:18:19 PM »

Are you on commission? ;)
Are you always such a d!ck?!
I am going to say this nicely: Stop trolling all of my replies!

gwEm

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Re: has anyone tried using a signal splitter + octave pedal to emulate a bass?
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2014, 05:49:12 PM »
So I tried the Boss OC-3 (my drummer had one):

guitar --> OC3 --direct out--> tuner --> guitar amp
               --effect out--> bass amp


In the 'poly' mode the tracking on the Boss is pretty decent, probably not as good as a POG, but workable. It does play polyphonic notes on the output too, however there is an adjustment control which acts as a range - so you can set the highest note to which the octave effect is applied.

I set the range to trigger on the 7th fret on the A string and below - so the 2nd highest E. There is a bit of 'fuzziness' here - you can't set an exact cut off, but you can get it near enough.

Anyway, this obviously triggers power chords on the octave output if you fret them on the E and the A. Thats not ideal, but you can work around it.

I think the tracking could be a little better, it always gets the right notes, but if you are playing *really* fast it is a little sloppy.

All of this stuff you can work around, being careful when playing chords on the lower strings - getting a good set-up on the range control. Also the Boss's octave tone isn't the greatest (sounds like a synth rather than a bass guitar) but its totally fine and has its own charm.

The range control, and the separate direct/effect outputs are what make the Boss probably the only usable for this. I wonder about a POG, but feeding it with filtered signal, split from the main guitar signal - but this is already two extra pedals.

So what of the actual results? There is a small adjustment in playing style as I say, but the results are well worth it! The low end of the octave is **absolutely immense** through the separate bass amp.

If you leave the low E, or A, ringing you can solo on the upper strings and you get a lovely warm drone filling in the bass end.

I've just ebayed my own OC-3 and a little mixer to experiment further at home.

One idea I had was to use a normal guitar pickup but with 12 pole pieces, wired to its own output. If you removed the pole pieces of the 4 upper strings, you could use a better sounding pedal - something like the POG maybe. But anyway, that would involve mods to the guitar. The Boss does it all in one handy box.

A manufacturer could easily make a better version of what the Boss OC-3 does. In poly mode it doesn't really play only root notes, its genuinely polyphonic, but the range knob allows you to work around it. Modern digital technology would definitely allow detection of the root note.

In the absence of something better, the OC-3 is decently workable in this application as a bass emulator. There doesn't seem to be an easier/better solution at the moment.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 05:50:53 PM by gwEm »
Quote from: AndyR
you wouldn't use the meat knife on crusty bread but, equally, the serrated knife and straight edge knife aren't going to go through raw meat as quickly

Plenum n Heather

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Re: has anyone tried using a signal splitter + octave pedal to emulate a bass?
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2014, 06:51:23 PM »
Nice! Looks like your hard work paid off.