Author Topic: 120W valve at bedroom levels (Read 13396 times)

mia · « **on:** March 16, 2006, 09:36:01 PM »

For bedroom levels and the ocasional jam in a garage...is there any point in buying a 120W amp head?...i suspect it wouldd just be wayy too loud, but would it be possible at all?

Im thinking of the Ibanez thermion :twisted:

its a valve amp by the way

sambo · « **Reply #1 on:** March 16, 2006, 09:40:39 PM »

thd hotplate (or any other attenuator) would make it possible.

mia · « **Reply #2 on:** March 16, 2006, 10:25:05 PM »

is this hotplate a permanet thing? What does it do?...sorry, im abit clueless :oops:

dave_mc · « **Reply #3 on:** March 16, 2006, 10:25:37 PM »

^ yeah.

or if it's really high gain (assuming you want saturated tones), you could probably get away with just turning down the master volume (like i do with my engl).

dave_mc · « **Reply #4 on:** March 16, 2006, 10:26:58 PM »

Quote from: mia

is this hotplate a permanet thing? What does it do?...sorry, im abit clueless :oops:

nah, i think you just plug it in between the head and cab.

it converts most of the sound to heat, so you can crank the amp's volume to get powertube overdrive, but at lower volume levels. It'll wear out your tubes as much as cranking the amp, though.

Skybone · « **Reply #5 on:** March 17, 2006, 09:27:50 AM »

A power attenuator (such as a HotPlate) is designed to be used between a valve amp (head or combo) and the speakers. It's a passive device (no power supply needed) and works on the basis of using the energy from the amp and then reduces it, lowering the volume from the speakers, kind of like a Master Volume.

Even with an attenuator, you might find that a 120w amp may be a bit too much for home use, as you can't really get the amp's volume high enough to induce power valve distortion, unless of course you don't want it. After owning a 100w+ amp (TSL122) and using it at home, I'd say that going for a 50/60w would be better in the long run, as at the end of the day, there's only something like 3dB between a 50w amp at max volume and a 100w amp at max volume. I run a 50w combo at the moment, and that gets a bit too loud for home use, even with the attenuator! ;)

math2014 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 17, 2006, 10:16:46 AM »

Interesting point.

And what would one should do, in case the features he wants are only present in 100W form?

willo · « **Reply #7 on:** March 17, 2006, 12:02:20 PM »

I guess then you'd have to think about whether you want the apparent benefits of a lower wattage amp, or the features of the 100W. Which amp is it? There might be lower wattage alternatives...

For what it's worth, I run a 100W JCM800 at home through a Hotplate and it works fine. I do sometimes wonder what it's like without attenuation - even with my band I end up attenuating it slightly cos it's a bit loud - but it all works fine for me. Having said that, I don't use a great deal of gain/distortion from the amp, mostly just have it set to a light crunch. I have tried it on ultra-gain settings but got quite a lot of feedback. I don't know if it was 50W that would change anything :?

Skybone · « **Reply #8 on:** March 18, 2006, 10:02:54 AM »

Most 100/120w amps are available in 50/60w format these days, product diversification, profit maximisation and all that...

My point here is that running a 50w amp lets you acheive power valve distortion at a more "bearable" level than a 100+w. I have my amp set with gain at about 4, which gives it a bit of crunch, but the volume is at about 8, which puts the power valves into "distorto-zone".

One good thing about larger amps is that they give you a better clean headroom than smaller amps, if that's what you're after, great.

It's just another opinion after all... :)

indysmith · « **Reply #9 on:** March 18, 2006, 10:39:59 AM »

Quote from: willo

I have tried it on ultra-gain settings but got quite a lot of feedback. I don't know if it was 50W that would change anything :?

Nope the 50W version still has plenty of feedback with Ultra-gain...

math2014 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 18, 2006, 12:47:08 PM »

For example...

Laney VH100R (more features than GH50L)
H&K Duotone 100W (more features than the Puretone 50w)
Orange Rockverb 50W (more features than the Rocker 30)
THD Flexi 50 (more than the Univalve)
Rivera KHR55...

So basically featurewise i love the VH100R and the Duotone... but powerwise?

FELINEGUITARS · « **Reply #11 on:** March 18, 2006, 03:21:02 PM »

In theory a 100W amp is only twice s loud as a 10W amp
Speaker efficiency can play a big part and not using a 4x12 as well
(as they do shift more air)

My 50W Marshall JCM 800 is way loud but simply lacks the clean headroom of the 100W version

Bainzy · « **Reply #12 on:** March 18, 2006, 03:32:02 PM »

Quote from: Erlend_G

Quote from: Skybone
there's only something like 3dB between a 50w amp at max volume and a 100w amp at max volume.

Yes, but the ear percieves three decibels more as "twice as loud" ;)

Bear in mind that 100w and 50w refers to clean power; these amps put out more than that when the output stage clips. A 100w 1959slp can put out around 150w power. That's why the only difference people really hear when pulling output tubes to make the amp 50w from 100w is that there is an earlier breakup of the tubes.

math2014 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 18, 2006, 06:20:10 PM »

well 10db is required for doubling audible volume, and with respect to power you need x10 wattage in order to have a 10db increase.

dave_mc · « **Reply #14 on:** March 18, 2006, 08:30:20 PM »

Quote from: math2014

For example...

Laney VH100R (more features than GH50L)
H&K Duotone 100W (more features than the Puretone 50w)
Orange Rockverb 50W (more features than the Rocker 30)
THD Flexi 50 (more than the Univalve)
Rivera KHR55...

So basically featurewise i love the VH100R and the Duotone... but powerwise?

if you want the features, you have to go for the more powerful amp, and then try to find a way round it, like an attenuator.

FWIW, the laney vh100r has plenty of pre-amp gain to be played at bedroom levels, IMO. Of course, it'd sound better cranked.

Alternatively, look into an amp with a half-power, or pentode/triode operation. What's your budget, and what tones are you after?