Some Advice on Aftermath/Juggernaut/Painkillers

[nervcentre]

I'm a bit torn on pickup choices and wonder if someone could perhaps point me in the right direction.

I'm a bedroom player, mainly interested in hard rock, symphonic metal and prog. metal  (Nightwish, Within Temptation, Dream Theater, etc). I'm often working in a sequencer with MIDI orchestral instruments rather than performing live, so I assume something that will stand out in the mix is desirable, but I'd also like something that cleans up well. 

Guitar: Ibanez 7-string RG Prestige (RG3727FZ) currently with stock Dimarzio PAF 7's.
Amp: Mesa Boogie Mini Rectifier

I found the active EMG's in one of my older guitars rather clinical ("as subtle as a brick" as a mate said), and I also have a 6-string Schecter C1 Custom FR on hand (Seymour Duncan Custom SH-11 / '59 Pickups) which I'm very fond of the tone of, if that's any indication.  I am definitely after something more aggressive/high gain/contemporary with the Ibanez though.

I was originally pointed towards the Juggernauts by a friend, but I think the Aftermath is closer to the sound I'm looking for (at least in the bridge). I've seen a few topics where people recommend partnering Aftermath's with a Painkiller in the neck.  I was toying with the idea of Aftermath in the bridge, Juggernaut in the neck - unsure if that's a good combo.

I've not really been in the position of choosing replacement pickups before, so any advice is much appreciated (someone who knows what they are doing will be fitting them!).

[Dave Sloven]

From the description of what you want to play honestly it sounds like something along the lines of the Cold Sweat set would be a better match

The pickups you mention are more useful for stuff like djent

[JimmyMoorby]

The Nailbomb bridge (Maybe ceramic for Petrucci but alnico would do the job too) and cold sweat neck would be a good combination for progressive metal.  The nailbomb would have more character and better when rolling back the gain too.

If for some reason you did go for the aftermath or juggeranut I wouldnt mix and match id just go for a set any way.  The Aftermath neck isnt very versatile but its great for hi gain shred leads.

As Orange says the Aftermath is more for extreme metal and djent type stuff.

If youre attracted to the painkiller/aftermath/juggeranut you should check out the black hawks too.

[nervcentre]

Thanks for the replies. Cold Sweat is definitely an option, but from audio clips, I wasn't convinced about the Nail Bomb.

I'm definitely more on the symphonic/power metal than prog side and I was thinking Aftermath's because apparently Within Temptation use them now (as of Hydra).  I'm definitely looking for something higher output than the PAF 7's in this Ibanez (or the Seymour Duncan SH-11/'59 config of the Schecter) but more restrained than the active EMG's I used to have.

So crossing the Juggernaut off, that leaves Cold Sweat, Painkiller, Aftermath as frontrunners. Decisions, decisions :).

[Dave Sloven]

I'd be surprised if the Cold Sweat set didn't suit your needs, provided that your guitar suits it well.  To be honest I play Gibsons and I don't know the Ibanez range that well, so I don't even know what wood combination you have and I don't have much clue as to how a bolt-on neck affects things (my guitars have all been set-neck designs).  Tone wise I think it would be perfect for what you want as long as it doesn't clash with the acoustic properties of your guitar somehow.  You don't have a wimpy little amp so the output difference between a Cold Sweat and, say, a Painkiller would not be that big a factor.  A friend of mine ran his Emerald LP (which I'd say is similar in output to my Cold Sweat SG) through my Peavey and thought it sounded amazing, but finds that it doesn't push his little Laney Lionheart 20W amp hard enough (I'm thinking of offering a trade for my Warpig set). With the Mesa you should be in a similar situation to me, where you are looking to back off on output more so than bump it up.  The Cold Sweat and Emerald bridge pickups are both around the 13-14K mark (the test readings on the warranty cards seem to be higher than the advertised ratings on the Emeralds).  The CS bridge has a smooth, metallic sound to it with good cleans, much more like alnico cleans than the cleans of any of the other BKP ceramic models.  I tend to think that the Aftermath and Painkiller would be too 'raspy' in the mids for what you want to play.  The Emerald, which is a very nice sounding pickup, might be too bright and not enough bottom end (same for the Rebel Yell), and the Holy Diver might be too warm sounding.

[ericsabbath]

the aftermath also have that "clinical" character, like the emg's
I'd go with the miracle man bridge and something medium hot for the neck

[Kiichi]

the aftermath also have that "clinical" character, like the emg's
I'd go with the miracle man bridge and something medium hot for the neck

I never found them to be "clinical", just "surgical" if that makes sense.

[Alex]

I think the OP needs to see the pickups in relation to the guitar he wants to put them in. I don't know what guitar the clips from the BKP were recorded in, but I believe a Les Paul is a benchmark guitar for many BKPs (?).

I think with the thin acoustic character the Ibanez RG normally have, I would normally go for something such as Nailbomb or Holy Diver - something to beef things up a bit and avoid it to sound too dry and thin. I'm surprised the Nailbomb was ruled out already, I think it is perfect for Dream Theater and Nightwish. I think both the Holy Diver and Nailbomb would be more versatile while still offering plenty of aggressiveness (and this is 7-string anyway, so there shouldn't be problems to get metal sounds). I think one of the really high output monsters could make the guitar very single-minded and focused on upper mids-treble.

[JimmyMoorby]

I think the OP needs to see the pickups in relation to the guitar he wants to put them in. I don't know what guitar the clips from the BKP were recorded in, but I believe a Les Paul is a benchmark guitar for many BKPs (?).

I think with the thin acoustic character the Ibanez RG normally have, I would normally go for something such as Nailbomb or Holy Diver - something to beef things up a bit and avoid it to sound too dry and thin. I'm surprised the Nailbomb was ruled out already, I think it is perfect for Dream Theater and Nightwish. I think both the Holy Diver and Nailbomb would be more versatile while still offering plenty of aggressiveness (and this is 7-string anyway, so there shouldn't be problems to get metal sounds). I think one of the really high output monsters could make the guitar very single-minded and focused on upper mids-treble.

Agreed.  The nailbomb is perfect for Dream Theater riffs.  I also had to learn a couple of Nightwish songs recently and the nailbomb again worked well and this is all with my esp m1000.

[nervcentre]

Yeah, I was hasty to rule out the Nailbomb, I'd heard a couple of demos that didn't sound like the tone I'm after, but have since come across a couple of demos that are more appealing. Thanks for the continued feedback folks.

I think this proves I have no idea about picking new pickups 

The shop that will be supplying them has gone off to do some investigation as well and I'll get my music teacher to weigh in before I decide anything.

So many nice pickups, if I didn't love the Seymours in my C1-FR I'd be replacing those as well  .

[Dave Sloven]

Ceramic Nailbomb bridge would probably do it for you

Neck pickups you'd have a few choices.  To match that neck pickup I'd probably go for either a Nailbomb or a Rebel Yell, but people have also used VHII and Cold Sweat neck pickups with C-Bombs to good effect

[nervcentre]

Well, I got the Nailbomb set (with ceramic bridge) and new pots/capacitor in the end and I'm thinking that may have been a huge mistake :(

The fizzy aspect of the PAF7's is gone and the tone is nice...except after doing some A-B tests, the bridge now sounds like a lower output version of the Seymour Duncan SH-11 Custom in my other main guitar (the SH-11 pushes the amp into breakup more on semi-clean settings) - Unsure why this is the case, though I guess the pickups may be too far from the strings.  My guess is the Nailbomb is tighter, though the SH-11 sounds fuller to my ear.


Comparison of Nailbomb and SH-11 output. The Schecter with SH-11 starts around bar 7

I expected something noticeably higher output.

I don't think it's just me as I can tell the difference between pickup positions and other guitars easily and immediately noticed the difference between the Nailbombs and the old PAF7's.  I will be checking with more experienced friends, see what they think.

I'd say the Nailbomb is probably a good pickup as I'm a huge fan of the SH-11 already, but they're probably not the best bet for this guitar.  Anyone got any advice?

[MerlinTKD]

I've never used the Nailbomb, but my BKP's are SUPER sensitive to height adjustments - apparently all BKP's are. Try adjusting the height of the pickup - generally between 2-3mm from the bottom of the string (when held down at the last fret) is recommended, but it all depends on the output and tone you're going for.

Also, BKP's are said to "eat gain" - they're a lot clearer and cleaner than most other brands at the same volume/gain level. So, it COULD be that the Duncan is putting out more frequencies, across the spectrum... I find it's true of the stock Cepheus pickups in my Agile 8-string, the low end can get a little overwhelming if I'm not careful. Of course, a Duncan is going to be better than inexpensive stock pickups, but hopefully you follow what I mean.

[Dave Sloven]

^ both of these points are true to my experience.

1. You probably need to move the pickup up

2. BKP clarity is a result of their less compressed character

[Yellowjacket]

Ah geez, eh?  I am getting rid of my Duncans because they are so muddy sounding with a Mesa, ESPECIALLY when compared to a Bare Knuckle.  I find the clarity and complex timbre of BKP works exceptionally well with Mesa amps.  SDs tend to be more muscular, simply because the winding is so tight which results in there being more metal wound on the pickup, but I wouldn't trade that fullness and thickness for added clarity, articulation, tightness, and string separation. 

A Nailbomb wouldn't be my first choice for a Superstrat like an RG.  I think you'd be much happier with a Juggerset.  The cleans are amazing, the pickup is more powerful, and the top end purrs instead of raunches.  (I happen to love the Nailbomb in my Les Paul)