Suggestions for Gibson SG + Mesa Mark V. Already tried Warpig and Black Dog.

[guijs]

Hello all,

Sorry for the long text. The main info is in the first paragraph.

I need suggestions for my 2011 Gibson SG Standard Limited. I'm not new to BKPs pickups. I already had a Ceramic Warpig set on this guitar and currently I have a Black Dog set and also replaced the pots to CTS 550k for vol and push-pull tone pots for split-coil sounds. (I also have a C-Nailbomb set+Slowhand on a Ibanez RG1570 Prestige and love them). I play in a Mesa Boogie Mark V combo amp. The Black Dogs are nice for low gain vintage sounds, but I need something more versatile, less trebly, gain friendly, a tone like slash/GunsNRoses, AC/DC (Rock N Roll Train), Van Halen, etc.

This SG guitar have a mahogany body and neck, and a "baked maple" fingerboard (that is the reason they call it limited). It came with stock 490/498 pickups and that Gibson circuit board with the pots soldered on it. Naturally (e.g unplugged) It sounds more trebly/bright when compared to a Les Paul (as many SGs do).

When I bought it, at first, I wanted it to have a very powerful heavy metal sound, like Metallica, Dream Theater, etc. So I installed my first BKP pickups which was the Ceramic Warpig set. I got the very heavy, high gain metal sound I wanted, but it "killed" the versatility of the guitar. I could not find anymore a nice tone for classic/prog/vintage rock like AC/DC, Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, and even a warm clean sound.

A few weeks later I started my second experience with BKP when I installed a set of Ceramic Nailbombs to my Ibanez RG1570, and I loved the result. A lot of power for heavy metal, with a full, balanced sound, but also much more versatile than the Warpig, with excellent cleans on the neck pickup. I can get pretty nice Pink Floyd/Gilmour clean sounds and also very good vintage distorted sounds, although it is obviously more heavy metal sounding than vintage.

As I filled my heavy metal needs with the Ibanez (and with a Gibson Explorer with EMG 81/60) I decided to replace the C-Warpigs on the SG and put something more versatile, with a more warm, vintage sound without the heavy metal in mind. Something sounding more like Slash/GunsNRoses, AC/DC, Led Zeppelin. After a lot of clips and YouTube videos I installed the Black Dog set and replaced the pots. At first I liked the sound a lot, It does sound exactly like Led Zeppelin, but that's it. After a couple of weeks playing with it I find it too trebly, too "low gain vintage". It is on the opposite side of not being versatile like the Warpigs. Sounds like it does not match the SG, specially with gain dialed over mid-high.

So I decided to give another try on the BKP+SG. I read another similar topic from 2010 and some people recommended the Riff Raff for bridge and The Mule for neck. I liked a lot the clip "Mule Hair Metal" of the Mule, which makes me wonder if a Mule set would be a good choice. I also considered a Alnico Nailbomb for bridge and maybe something warmer on the neck for chords and soloing on clean channel.

What do you guys think?

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: In the end I found out that my "problem" with the Black Dogs were that the pickup height was 2x the Gibson recommended settings. I adjusted it to the correct height for the SG and all the middiness gone away. The Black Dogs are awesome for the SG and i'm keeping them. More info about the tone on the second page, Reply #29.

[littleredguitars2]

i'm thinking crawler. not sure exactly how well it would suit an SG, i'd assume pretty well. but its super versatile

[Telerocker]

Mules and Nailbombs are different worlds. Beware that the NB is agressive in the uppermids and you have to dig that topend sizzle.
I think an Abraxas-bridge/Mule-neck is a decent option for classic rock and hardrock. The Abraxas-b has some extra mids, less treble and a nice compression compared to the Mule-bridge. The Mule-neck is unsurpassed imo.

[Dave Sloven]

The Crawler is supposed to be horrible in an SG.  It becomes muddy in the mids.  Apparently the Holy Diver has a similar issue with SGs.

The baked maple will make it a little brighter than my 2011 SG Standard with the rosewood board, but not too much. I tried an A-Bomb in it and found it to be too middy, but I have often thought that the more scooped C-Bomb might have been a good choice.  In the end I went with a Cold Sweat set, which does work nicely in an SG.  I find to be versatile.  Not sure if it would be a little too bright for you.  Miracle Man would also work well but it is very much a metal pickup like the C-Pig.  Of the more middy pickups the only one that might work well is the A-Pig.  Generally SGs hate middy pickups, although a darker SG might sound alright with a Painkiller.  I would be cautious regarding a Rebel Yell, they don't have enough bottom end for an SG

A Mule set could be a good choice. If you are worried about pickups being too bright the Riff Raff might be too much for you

If you really want a good pickup for an SG I would recommend a HSP90 like the Stockholm or Supermassive.  I have a Stockholm in my resonant and bright SG Junior and it is amazing

[ericsabbath]

don't know... stormy mondays?

I imagine a maple board SG should sound REALLY middy and spanky
regular sgs aren't brighter than maple top les pauls
they're definitely thinner sounding in the low end, but actually less bright, so they're all about the midrange

probably something like a miracle man would sound great, but I don't think that's what you want

abraxas?

[guijs]

I found this video from Jon Bishop playing a 1995 Gibson SG with Riff Raff bridge and HSP90 Mississipi Queen Neck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeTZ4v7CaKk

I like very much the way the HSP90 MQ sounds for clean at the beggining of the video, and also at 1:54 and 2:48. The Riff Raff also sound VERY nice, I'm afraid it could be too bright for my SG.

I've sent a e-mail to Ben from BPK and he highly recommended the Alnico Nailbomb set, OR, Alnico Nailbomb Bridge and HSP90 Mississipi Queen for the Neck. He told me that this is a very popular combination. He also said to stay away from the Mule and Riff Raff as it will be even brighter than the Black Dog in my SG guitar.

I do like a lot the C-Nailbomb set in my ibanez (basswood body), and it would be great to have a warmer version of that tone in my SG....


Hummm, maybe the A-Nailbomb + HSP90 Mississipi Queen is my go to?

[Lucas]

Guijs, Black Dogs were too bright in your SG?

[guijs]

Yes, too bright. Awesome vintage tone, but too bright.

[Lucas]

The Crawler is supposed to be horrible in an SG.  It becomes muddy in the mids.  Apparently the Holy Diver has a similar issue with SGs.

BD seems to have pronounced mids same way as HD, but Guijs states that BDs were really bright.

Anyway, what makes SG so picky and fussy when it comes to pickups? I`ve been always wondering. Personally never played SG but just being curious.

Thanks

[guijs]

We have to consider that this SG with baked maple fretboard is even brighter than the ones with rosewood fretboard.

[Dave Sloven]

I've sent a e-mail to Ben from BPK and he highly recommended the Alnico Nailbomb set, OR, Alnico Nailbomb Bridge and HSP90 Mississipi Queen for the Neck. He told me that this is a very popular combination. He also said to stay away from the Mule and Riff Raff as it will be even brighter than the Black Dog in my SG guitar.

I do like a lot the C-Nailbomb set in my ibanez (basswood body), and it would be great to have a warmer version of that tone in my SG....


Hummm, maybe the A-Nailbomb + HSP90 Mississipi Queen is my go to?

All I can say to this is no, no, no ... I don't know why but he seemed to think that an A-bomb would work in my SG, it didn't.  It was extremely raw sounding and middy, not warm at all.  The very mid-focused character of the SG brings out all the hairiness of the A-Bomb.  It was really good for Sepultura, early Possessed, Rose Tattoo, Poison Idea, and not much else.  If you think the SG was a one-trick pony with the C-Pig try to the A-Bomb and you'll just find that your pony has learned a new trick and can't even remember how to do the old one any more.

I wish I ordered the Nailbomb with the ceramic magnet.  Seriously.

There is a chance that an A-Bomb would sound good in your SG, but only if it is atypically dark.  With a maple board I imagine that's unlikely.

Cold Sweat, C-Bomb, Miracle Man, or Warpig are the only ones I could recommend out of the contemporary range for an SG. Most of your vintage range should be okay.  Vintage Hot range would be a cr@p shoot.

SGs are notoriously finicky and unpredictable with regard to humbucker selection. Next SG I get will have A-Pigs in it, as I have a set sitting here doing nothing.  If they don't work I guess I will try Painkillers in it, but only because I would like a really abrasive SG in my arsenal (i.e., not something versatile).

I would seriously consider humbucker size P-90s if I were you.  All of the clips on the HSP-90s were recorded in an SG Standard, the SG and P-90 combination is fantastic. I don't know why but it is.  I would recommend Stockholms if you are considering Nailbombs.  I have had both in an SG and find the Stockholms can deliver everything the Nailbomb did and then some.  Much more versatile.  If you are worried that the output might be too much the Supermassive is a milder version.

[guijs]

I played my SG for a couple of hours today, tweaking a lot my Mesa Mark V., playing  unplugged and comparing to my other guitars. I am starting to think that brightness it not the issue here. Middle range is actually more pronounced than Treble.

I have 3 other guitars with mahogany body: 98' Les Paul with flamed maple top, 87' Gibson Explorer and 02' Esp explorer all mahogany. Playing unplugged I can say that the three sound very alike, but the SG sounds different. It is middy like most of you are saying!

Agent Orange, do you have any sound clips of you SG with HSP90? The description of the Stockholm and Supermassive are very attractive!

[Dave Sloven]

Not really.  The only clips I have are me playing with my band.

In terms of being able to hear it by itself the only clip I have are this one of me playing some riff (kind of sloppily!) while in the practice room. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NJccJ0OJk8

There is a song that we play that has just me playing for a couple of bars but the only video I have of it where you can actually hear me properly is a really old one and one of the other band members must have deleted it.  You can find the demo were recorded last weekend on bandcamp but it is probably not much help as their are two guitars.  I play the rhythm guitar parts.  http://teraniapunk.bandcamp.com/album/demo-2015 ... kind of hard to pick me out from the other guitar (Telecaster with Seymour Duncan Quarter Pound) except in the last song where I am playing the long sustained notes while Bert is playing a tremolo picked part over that.

I would highly recommend the Stockholm bridge based on my own experience (I don't have a neck pickup on that guitar).  If you are worried that the neck might be too hot others have had good results mixing the Stockholm bridge with the Supermassive neck.

they are modern sounding for P-90s.  They are good for punk, hardcore, alternative, grunge, and some metal stuff I guess.  When I play Thin Lizzy, Judas Priest, etc I tend to use my SG Standard with the Cold Sweat set.  My SG Junior with the Stockholm is tuned DGCFAD for Terania whereas the SG Standard is tuned EADGBE

[ericsabbath]

I played my SG for a couple of hours today, tweaking a lot my Mesa Mark V., playing  unplugged and comparing to my other guitars. I am starting to think that brightness it not the issue here. Middle range is actually more pronounced than Treble.

that makes a lot more sense
then perhaps the mule might work for you
or maybe the abraxas, if you want more sustain and fluidity

[guijs]

Yes, makes even more sense when you look at the graphics in the Black Dog page. Very midrange pronounced.

Ben from BPK recommended now the VHII or Emerald. Abraxas seems like a good choice also. Cold Sweat too, but maybe it will be too agressive and bright.

I want them all!!!