NAD

[Telerocker]

I meant the Reaper has a downtuned topend.
But Dave, you're right about breaking in the speaker. That sometimes takes half a year.

Woops, sorry for misunderstanding 

And yeah V30s can take a while.

Dave, when I read back I didn't write it down properly, so oops on my side.

Yeah, new V30's can be abrasive, especially played at home, but in the band they cut really good through the mix. It's in my experience really a stagespeaker.

[Slartibartfarst42]

Maybe that's part of the problem for me. It's not just that the high mids can be a bit harsh, it's that so far I've only had a chance to play it at home and while 30% volume even on 7w is very loud, it's not really like being on stage. No doubt I'll like it more when I next crank it with the band but realistically, while I play with the band every week, I play at home every night so I really need a speaker that will work in both locations. There is no doubt it has to go.

Meanwhile, anybody know the answer to my previous question?

[dave_mc]

^ Not sure, I'm not that familiar with Orange amps and don't want to tell you something which might be wrong. Better wait until someone who can tell you for sure sees it.

I bought the cabinet used from a regularly gigging musician so while it looks pretty much like new, I assume the speaker is broken in properly.

Ah OK, no worries As I said, being broken-in was no guarantee you'd like them, but if they weren't already you might as well wait until they are, just in case, kind of thing.

Dave, when I read back I didn't write it down properly, so oops on my side.

Yeah, new V30's can be abrasive, especially played at home, but in the band they cut really good through the mix. It's in my experience really a stagespeaker.

No worries

I don't even mind them at home volumes when broken-in either (at least for amps and tones which suit them). I might be weird in that respect, though.

[Kiichi]

I bought the cabinet used from a regularly gigging musician so while it looks pretty much like new, I assume the speaker is broken in properly. Anyway, I ordered some new valves tonight so I have a quick question to clarify where I'm putting them. Would I be correct in thinking that on that diagram Kiichi posted a link to, V1 is 'Dirty Channel Stage 1&2'; V2 is 'Dirty Channel Stage 3&4' and V3 is the clean channel?

http://orangeampsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/3.jpg

The way I see it is that the amp has two V1 stages. One of the dirty and one of the clean channel. Those would be the Stage 1&2 things respectivly. From those the signal goes to the phase inverter for the clean channel and to another stop, Stage 3&4, on the dirty channel.

So the only preamp tube that affects both channels is the PI. This gives you a lot more room to adjust the sound, as you have two tubes changing the dirty channel and one defining the clean.

If I made a mistake in my reading someone else please chime in.

Sides that, did that answer the question slarti?

[Slartibartfarst42]

Not really, it made it more complicated!!!!

Let me put it this way; I have three valves arriving tomorrow that I've bought for the three positions that seemed to indicate clean and drive channels. FRom what I could gather, the PI and effects loop could wait until I had more cash as valves is an expensive business. I bought a TAD Highgrade Premium RT010 for the V1 position as I was told that was the most important position and I bought two TAD Premium Selected RT001 valves for the other two positions. Now it seems I have two V1 positions AND a PI slot to think about so should I have bought two or even three RT010 valves instead? If not, should the RT010 valve I have got go in the dirty channel, clean channel or PI position?

While I'm on, I've been running the TH30 on 7.5w power but even on this setting it's about the loudest thing I've ever heard. People talk about the clean channel going into a lovely distortion when the volume gets to 12 o'clock but even set at 1 on the 7.5w setting it's easily loud enough for home use. Changing to 15w and 30w does make things louder still but in all honesty, not by that much. I swear I could easily play a gig at 7.5w and I was expecting 7.5w to be ideal for home use. Is this normal?

[Kiichi]

Sorry for complicating things. You are right in not thinking about the PI and Loop much for now. With the amps you got Iīd put the RT010 in the dirty V1, stage 1&2, since that is what you have the most issues with. Then use the other two for dirty V2, stage 3&4, and clean V1, stage 1&2.

Lovelything with the preamp tubes is though that you can really easily switch em around and try different things though. But this is what I would start with.

[Slartibartfarst42]

Thanks, you're a star Kiichi, that's been a lot of help. I'll have these in for the weekend and see where we go from there but I daresay next month it will be the power amp valves and at least the PI valve as that seems to control the drive channel so it would make sense to get something of quality in there. Once that's all done I'll see how I feel about the speaker 

[Kiichi]

Ah, donīt make me blush. We all just try to do our part here, donīt we. I mean your reviews are still the best ones Iīve seen around. =)

Really looking forward to your account of the tube change now. A bit anxious since I do not know the exact tubes, but I know what the change can do.

Problem is that this discussion has me wanting to do some trials with my TT again...maybe itīs time to give another powerstage set a run. And some preamp stuff before that since I have a good handful lying around. Maybe give the low gain V2 another shot. Arghhhhh.

Edit: I just had my second post 2000 (damn the crash!!!). Good way to use it. Hurray to this forum, its spirit, and most of all the folks around here. I raise my glass to you.
Love,
Kiichi, aka Ole

Now let us get the next 2000 started. And me some new guitars and BKPs. =)

[Slartibartfarst42]

A bit anxious since I do not know the exact tubes, but I know what the change can do.

I was on the verge of going with the JJ valves because I used them in my Blackstar so I already know they were good but the guy at Hot Rox insisted the TADs weren't that bright and would be a better fit for what I was wanting to do with the Orange. He was then banging on about valves that Santana uses etc. but by that point it didn't matter much to me. They sell Orange amps so they must know them and the TAD and JJ valves were very similar in terms of price so it seemed to me that he had nothing to gain by moving me to TAD valves. Anyway, there's no harm in trying something new 

When I changed the valves in my Blackstar I noticed an improvement, though it wasn't that drastic, possibly because it had Marshall valves in it already so I assume they were good quality. I haven't even looked what valves are in this Orange yet but I'm hoping it's still the original Chinese valves as I know I will see a more drastic change then and it will help to explain why it's currently a bit grainy and fizzy.

[Slartibartfarst42]

Well, the new preamp valves are now in but as it's very late I won't get the chance to test them until after work tomorrow. Unfortunately, I don't expect the big difference I'd hoped for as the valves that were in there weren't cheap Chinese valves but JJ valves. Still, we'll see.

[richard]

I've spent a lot of time with Orange amps recently including the TH30 which I didn't like. In fact I didn't really like any Orange amps because of the fuzziness when you crank them. However, the Dual Terror changed my opinion. It's a GREAT amp with no fizz and if you're after the thick tones of Jake E.Lee, Carlos Santana and Gary Moore this amp will do those sounds with ease. If you have the option of changing amps I'd go for the Dual Terror. You can get tons of gain on both channels as well.

What?! I;ve owned a Dual Terror and whilst its a cracking amp which I regret selling, I wouldn't say it NAILS those tones with ease... YMMV

I used the Dual terror at about 6/7 rehearsals so I got to know it pretty well. It was VERY thick sounding. If there was one thing that put me off a little it's that I didn't think it had as much bite as I like for gigs. And this is using RYs in a mahogany guitar.

Slarti - good luck but it's very hard to find an amp that's great for both gigs and home playing. My Cornford combo is the best gigging amp I've had but it's nothing special at kitchen volume. I play a lot at home but nearly always unplugged. If I need a little noise I'll go through my Microcube which is a great home amp. If you like the Orange at gig volume can't you compromise a little on your home sound ? Better a great gig sound and an okay home sound than the other way round.

[Kiichi]

Well, the new preamp valves are now in but as it's very late I won't get the chance to test them until after work tomorrow. Unfortunately, I don't expect the big difference I'd hoped for as the valves that were in there weren't cheap Chinese valves but JJ valves. Still, we'll see.

That changes things of course, but even though it wonīt be the expected change there should be a noticable one. Plus you now have more options for switching things around. TAD V1 with a JJ V2 or vice versa. I am staying positive here.

Inspired by this thread I also changed around the preamp in my TT, now having a Tube Town AX7 V1 and a Sylvania AT7 V2. Man, this transformed the end. Took out a good bit of gain, but improved it too. It now feels much more open, touch sensitive, defined, sweet, and it reacts better to guitar controlls. I have not yet tried it for metal, but for hard rock, classic metal, and blues especially this feels amazing. The singing lead sounds now...oh my.
Not the last experiment for now though. I still got other tubes, from AX7 to AU7.

[Slartibartfarst42]

I stand corrected, the TAD valves have improved things 

In fairness, the JJ valves were just standard JJ valves rather than the more expensive gold pin items and these TAD valves are the Highgrade Premium in V1 and the Premium Selected in the other two positions. The tone now is thicker, darker and smoother. There's still a distinctly modern voice to it but I think that's just the way the amp is. Either way, it's a hell of a lot closer to what I wanted now. Being thicker, darker and smoother now, it's certainly making the Vintage 30 sound better. I still wouldn't mind a smoother speaker but this has removed the urgency to change.

[Kiichi]

Well, that is a weight of my shoulders. Glad to hear it worked out the way you and I hoped. Now I wonder just how much you would have hated the stock tubes though.^^

People still fight over it, but I am on the side that thinks that tubes too have a break in period and mellow out a bit over time. Nothing too drastic, but rather like a rock near the ocean, loosing its coarse nature over time. The shape is retained, but the surface smooths.

[Slartibartfarst42]

I've just sold some old gear so I have a bit more cash now. Would changing power valves and the PI valve improve things further or would I be better off changing the speaker?