sinners vs other stacked single coils...

[leolyonsofficial]

Any opinions on the sinners vs single coil humbuckers such as DiMarzio or Lace red and blue?

Especially for chunky ballsy bass response on fast palm mutes   

[Slartibartfarst42]

My experience may be unusual but bI have had some experience of Sinners. In my case it was in a HSS Jackson and I used bridge models with baseplates added in the neck and middle positions. I can vouch for the fact that they had loads of 'ballsy bass' and remained very articulate even under a great deal of gain. It was certainly a thick tone and more than a little like a humbucker so in that respect I'd say that they would suit your requirements very well, however, for all that they're still true single coils and they're not the same as a conventional singlecoil sized humbucker. I understand what Tim says when he argues that singlecoil sized humbuckers don't do a convincing humbucker tone and don't manage a singlecoil tone convincingly either; they sit somewhere between the two in a niche of their own. The Sinner seems to sit somewhere between a true singlecoil pickup and a singlecoil sized humbucker if that makes sense.

[leolyonsofficial]

Single coils have a wonderful clarity that H don't. The sinner with baseplate is for the bridge only I thought?

[Slartibartfarst42]

That is usually the case, yes, but as I wanted something for the neck and middle that was particularly powerful (I never liked any kind of volume drop when moving from the bridge humbucker) and fat, Tim suggested using bridge versions in those positions and adding a baseplate to them. They were bridge pickups I was using, I just wasn't using them in the bridge position. They had a lot of that singlecoil clarity you mention but they were huge sounding compared to a more conventional singlecoil like a Trilogy Suite.

[leolyonsofficial]

I'm looking more towards a single coil sized bridge pickup with ultimate chug and power.

I was considering Lace blue, red, silver set but a review said sterile.

Then I say the DiMarzio stacked singles in multiple colour options.

Then I figured the sinner set would be the ultimate.

[Slartibartfarst42]

As a true singlecoil, you're not likely to get closer that a baseplated Sinner. The stacked singles you mention will give you the chug but they will also lose the singlecoil character that you retain with a Sinner.

[leolyonsofficial]

A better option for single coils would be an on off toggle for each of the three single coils and a series/parallel toggle.

Get rid of volume and tone as totally useless now that you have volume pedals and multi channel amps.

Also I've never ran any pickup ever on less than full volume and full tone.

They should just bypass the darn things. Dinosaur wiring that's stuck for too long!

[BigB]

Get rid of volume and tone as totally useless now that you have volume pedals and multi channel amps.

Also I've never ran any pickup ever on less than full volume and full tone.

They should just bypass the darn things. Dinosaur wiring that's stuck for too long!

Err... I beg to _totally_ disagree here. I do use a multichannel hi-gain amp (well, I used too in my previous band at least - current band is mostly sixties rock stuff so that's another story, but anyway...), and neither the multichannel nor a volume pedal will replace your guitar's controls - the multichannel amp because 1/ it changes the tone too much (FWIW I never barely ever touch the footswitch during a song) 2/ it's way too much of a "on/off" thing and 3/ you have to do some tap-dance, which I positively hate. Same point for volume pedals, I definitely _dont_ want to be tied and bound to my pedalboard.  Learn to use your guitar controls (might require some rewire job and a better amp - one that do react to volume and tone changes) and you won't believe how much freedom it will by you - and a whole new world of tonal nuances too.

Dinos knew how to get the tone, man.

[Telerocker]

Get rid of volume and tone as totally useless now that you have volume pedals and multi channel amps.

Also I've never ran any pickup ever on less than full volume and full tone.

They should just bypass the darn things. Dinosaur wiring that's stuck for too long!

Err... I beg to _totally_ disagree here. I do use a multichannel hi-gain amp (well, I used too in my previous band at least - current band is mostly sixties rock stuff so that's another story, but anyway...), and neither the multichannel nor a volume pedal will replace your guitar's controls - the multichannel amp because 1/ it changes the tone too much (FWIW I never barely ever touch the footswitch during a song) 2/ it's way too much of a "on/off" thing and 3/ you have to do some tap-dance, which I positively hate. Same point for volume pedals, I definitely _dont_ want to be tied and bound to my pedalboard.  Learn to use your guitar controls (might require some rewire job and a better amp - one that do react to volume and tone changes) and you won't believe how much freedom it will by you - and a whole new world of tonal nuances too.

Dinos knew how to get the tone, man.

This!

[darkbluemurder]

Get rid of volume and tone as totally useless now that you have volume pedals and multi channel amps.

Also I've never ran any pickup ever on less than full volume and full tone.

They should just bypass the darn things. Dinosaur wiring that's stuck for too long!

Err... I beg to _totally_ disagree here. I do use a multichannel hi-gain amp (well, I used too in my previous band at least - current band is mostly sixties rock stuff so that's another story, but anyway...), and neither the multichannel nor a volume pedal will replace your guitar's controls - the multichannel amp because 1/ it changes the tone too much (FWIW I never barely ever touch the footswitch during a song) 2/ it's way too much of a "on/off" thing and 3/ you have to do some tap-dance, which I positively hate. Same point for volume pedals, I definitely _dont_ want to be tied and bound to my pedalboard.  Learn to use your guitar controls (might require some rewire job and a better amp - one that do react to volume and tone changes) and you won't believe how much freedom it will by you - and a whole new world of tonal nuances too.

+2. It provides for a lot more tonal options.

[leolyonsofficial]

Old school vs new school!

Axe fx and IEM vs dinosaur wedges and Marshall stacks!

[Slartibartfarst42]

Like you, I don't really use the guitar's volume control at all and although I use the tone control more, it's hardly frequent. Certainly when I want a distorted tone, I find that backing off the volume just dulls the tone and takes away the compression and saturation I like. Having said that, unlike you, I don't think this is down to old school vs new school. Instead, I think it's got a lot more to do with my lack of skill and ability in making it work for me. If I watch a video of Gary Moore, I notice that he's constantly playing with the controls on his guitar to manipulate the tone and that's a lot more than simply 'old school'. That's a guitarist who is a billion times better than I'll ever be and he's doing it for a reason and not because he shuns modern technology. No, to my mind the problem lies with us, not the old school players who use the controls on their guitar.

[leolyonsofficial]

Still I'd like to bypass volume and tone and have the ability to turn pickups on or off by throwing a mini switch and another switch for parallel or series.

[gwEm]

I have a Sinner set with baseplated bridge and I also have DiMarzio Injector and DiMarzio Virtual Solo bridge pickups.

The Sinner is thicker and richer sounding the DiMarzios, however it hums.

The Virtual Solo is thicker than the Injector and I do prefer it out of those two.

I like the DiMarzios alot... but if you want the "ultimate chug", it is The Sinner for you, no doubt about it.

[BigB]

Certainly when I want a distorted tone, I find that backing off the volume just dulls the tone

Try the 50s wiring or a treble bleed. Both lessen the effect of the low-pass filter formed by the pickup/pot/cable/amp's input stage circuit.
 

and takes away the compression and saturation I like.

Now that's _exactly_ the point of using the guitar's volume put: adjusting the distortion (hence compression) level, not your overall output. Just like switching channel, except you get a _lot_ more nuances in-between and none of the unnatural tone change _and_ you don't have to run to your footswitch many times a song. The key here is to adjust your amp's settings so you get a warm lead tone with volume pot wide open and the tone slightly rolled off. Then you can go back to a crunchy rythm tone or even a clean or almost clean clear tone (depending on your amp) just playing with your volume and tone pots. Just note that not all amps are equals when you start using them that way, specially in the hi-gain range, so you also have to have the right amp too.

Old school vs new school!

Axe fx and IEM vs dinosaur wedges and Marshall stacks!

I don't have a Marshall stack - most of my amps are 12/18 watters and my biggest cab's a 2x12 - but anyway: we've already been through that in the eighties with rocktrons on high wattage tranny amps etc... Let's talk about "new school" <g>. Yes Axe Fx / Kemper etc are way better than the rocktron, but the whole idea is nothing new.