Thinking of trying an Alnico II magnet in a Rebel Yell? Any advice?

[darthphineas]

I have the RY.

and JBs from most eras, except the very early "JB Model".  also have the Concept Set and a few different variations of JBs that MJ wound for me that are also scatter wound.  the Concept is the only I have with an A2 and people should be clear that the Concept Set is as it is sounds...a concept set and not what went in to production....and it's a custom shop models, where MJ winds them in a way that makes A2 pickups sound sharper and more defined than many 'production model' A2 pickups  the parts have changed over the years, from using RCA5 magnets in the 80s to the regular A5 magnets used more recently....from the different material providers for the bobbins and wire and poles from 35+ years ago to the materials used today.

some people like putting an A2 in a JB.  some people like using a 250k pot.  you can even put a regular-thickness ceramic in one for a familiar tone that will bring you 'back for the attack'.

the custom and the JB are not at all the same.  putting an A2 in a JB will not get you close to a custom custom.

but....out an A2 in your RY and see how you like it.  the winder engineered things for his ears.  and while it sounds great, no one pickup will be perfect for everyone.  is a $4 magnet takes you to your place of zen, knock yourself out.

[seancorker]

Heh, why do people take clips as gospel truth anyway?  I think they're more a testament to the recording engineer than anything.

Playing a Rebel Yell bridge, I'd say they have a huge harmonic sheen to them as well as a really wide pick attack.  Tonnes of colours on that bridge pickup, it's very expressive!

Sorry, was referring to personal experience. I have a RY, a couple of old JB's and a WCR Murkat, which is a custom wound JB. They've all been swapped in and out of my main guitars. The Murkat is in a league of its own but I do prefer the lead tone and sparkle of the old JB to the RY. There is a lot of variation in JB's though.

[ericsabbath]

well, the rebel yell specs came from the nailbomb, which it's a completely different pup from the JB, so these comparisons are irrelevant, in my opinion
maybe this sort of confusion came from old posts where the newest holy diver was stated as initially being one of the Steve Stevens prototypes AND based on the JB
from what I understand, Stevens liked the rebel yell better and it became his signature pup, the old spec holy diver became the cold sweat and the "rejected" pup became the new holy diver
that was like 8-9 years ago, but since those old posts get confused with newer ones, most people still think the rebel yell is based on the original JB and the holy diver on the "modern" JB

or maybe I'm all confused myself and got it all wrong 
maybe Tim or FELINEGUITARS can clear it up once and for all

[Kiichi]

So I went ahead and shot an Email to the BKP guys directly, seeing if they could shed some light on the HD/RY relationship to the SD.

Tim had this to say:
"The HD is closest in spec to the newer JB while the RY, although wound with 43 PE like the earliest JBs isn't as powerful as those early ones - the Nailbomb would in fact be closer than the RY."

I fear this might worsen the arguments here in some ways...while helping in others. Canīt blame him for being so ambiguous, but man...

[seancorker]

So I went ahead and shot an Email to the BKP guys directly, seeing if they could shed some light on the HD/RY relationship to the SD.

Tim had this to say:
"The HD is closest in spec to the newer JB while the RY, although wound with 43 PE like the earliest JBs isn't as powerful as those early ones - the Nailbomb would in fact be closer than the RY."

I fear this might worsen the arguments here in some ways...while helping in others. Canīt blame him for being so ambiguous, but man...

No argument from me, it's what my ears were telling me. The early JB's were late 13k to mid 14k

[ericsabbath]

The early JB's were late 13k to mid 14k

they varied from 13k to 17k
even the custom concept model AnnunakiMassacr posted that's supposedly based on the very first one is almost 17k

[darthphineas]

Tim had this to say:
"The HD is closest in spec to the newer JB while the RY, although wound with 43 PE like the earliest JBs isn't as powerful as those early ones - the Nailbomb would in fact be closer than the RY."

I'm just not hearing that.  mainly because of the high end.  people rant and rave and whine and complain all day about how the newer JB has ice-pick high end.  meanwhile, the HD was the first BKP I tried (based on being told it was like a JB) and I ended up getting rid of it because the highs were too soft.  and I'm talking about taking a new/current production JB out of a guitar and putting a new HD in it's place.

unless "closest in spec" means it's the closest in DC resistance.

and yes, the JB specs for resistance have been all over the place over the years.  granted, resistance doesn't tell you as much about the tone or the output as many of the other factors involved.

[ericsabbath]

Tim had this to say:
"The HD is closest in spec to the newer JB while the RY, although wound with 43 PE like the earliest JBs isn't as powerful as those early ones - the Nailbomb would in fact be closer than the RY."

I'm just not hearing that.  mainly because of the high end.  people rant and rave and whine and complain all day about how the newer JB has ice-pick high end.  meanwhile, the HD was the first BKP I tried (based on being told it was like a JB) and I ended up getting rid of it because the highs were too soft.  and I'm talking about taking a new/current production JB out of a guitar and putting a new HD in it's place.

unless "closest in spec" means it's the closest in DC resistance.

and yes, the JB specs for resistance have been all over the place over the years.  granted, resistance doesn't tell you as much about the tone or the output as many of the other factors involved.

by closest, they mean 44 awg wire polysol, symmetrical coils, short alnico 5 magnet AND the dc resistance around 16k
I'm not 100% sure the holy diver has a polished magnet, though

[Wayne_S]

I came from years of JB use to the RY. I had JB's in about every guitar I had in the 80's and 90's, either I put JB's in or Kramer's that came with JB's. To my ears the RY isn't the same as the JB except for the harmonic content where I think the RY shines bit better. Im not knocking the JB at all and it was in my LP on a 250k pot for 10 year plus till the RY. The biggest difference Im hearing is the JB seems foggier and less dynamic than the RY. I can also get away with less than stellar playing on the JB where the RY isn't gonna put up with that for a second.

Ive read many things where the RY ended up being a JB this and that ect...... I don't really know what the facts are with the heritage and history of the JB but regardless its one of Duncans best ever pups IMO.

Id say if you can magnet swap at will or got the abilities to do it then please do and report back here cause Id be curious as to what you find. All in all at the end of the day its part of the fun as well as creating what pleases your ears in the end. Most of all none of us hear everything exactly the same, play the exact same gear or have identical touch and feel on our instruments. Thats the beauty and excitement hearing who's doing what either being the professional or non-professional.

[PhilKing]

I've been thinking of trying this purely out of curiosity. I know the Rebel Yell is basically an exact "old" JB clone. Whereas the Holy Diver is an improved "new" JB.

Now the first JB had an Alnico II magnet, but they eventually added Alnico V magnets. I'm curious into trying the Alnico II for this reason. Plus I wanted a pickup that had the sort of lead tone as the Duncan Custom Custom, but hopefully improved.

that's a misconception
the rebel yell has completely different specs from both "old JB" and holy diver
different magnet sizes, wire gauge and wire insulation
only technical similarity with the old JB is that SOME old JBs have lower DC reading (around 13k-14k), but that means nothing considering they have different wire gauges (and some old JBs  reached up to 17k, anyway)
the holy diver was indeed based on the modern JB, but tweaked for a less honky and compressed sound

never heard about the older JB having A2, but according to some guys on duncan forum, you might be right

perhaps the abraxas would be similar enough

Actually when Tim was making the Rebel Yell (which was originally going to be the new Holy Diver - that's what my early set has on the box name), he borrowed my original JB to take some measurements.  Mine has offset coils and comes in at ~14.74k depending on the weather :)  Tim then worked with Steve Stevens to modify the voicing to where Steve was happy with it.  I'm not sure if my RY's have the final spec, as they were made when the R&D was still going on, but they work great in my PRS Standard and haven't come out of it since I got them.

[AnnunakiMassacr]

Heh, why do people take clips as gospel truth anyway?  I think they're more a testament to the recording engineer than anything.

Playing a Rebel Yell bridge, I'd say they have a huge harmonic sheen to them as well as a really wide pick attack.  Tonnes of colours on that bridge pickup, it's very expressive!

Sorry, was referring to personal experience. I have a RY, a couple of old JB's and a WCR Murkat, which is a custom wound JB. They've all been swapped in and out of my main guitars. The Murkat is in a league of its own but I do prefer the lead tone and sparkle of the old JB to the RY. There is a lot of variation in JB's though.

Where can I get the WCR Murkat from? I've tried emailing a couple times asking about UK delivery, but I haven't received any responses :/

[littleredguitars2]

i thought the holy diver was supposed to be closer to the JB than the RY?

[darthphineas]

Where can I get the WCR Murkat from? I've tried emailing a couple times asking about UK delivery, but I haven't received any responses :/

had a similar issue with him.  when he did reply, it was when I contacted him via FB.  for what he charges, it just wasn't worth it for me to give it a shot.

[seancorker]

Where can I get the WCR Murkat from? I've tried emailing a couple times asking about UK delivery, but I haven't received any responses :/

had a similar issue with him.  when he did reply, it was when I contacted him via FB.  for what he charges, it just wasn't worth it for me to give it a shot.

For what it's worth, I had the same issues getting an initial response but his turn around and shipping (he builds to order) were under two weeks. The pickup was so good I ordered a Murkat set for another guitar.