Torn between two 50w heads, final decisions - EVH Vs. Victory

[Lord Blakers]

Just updated an earlier post of mine as I saw Chris Amott completely clean up the blue channel on high gain with his guitars' volume. Can't do that with the 15W!

I wouldn't dismiss channel 2 of the EVH. It's a wicked tight channel with a surprising amount of gain and really strong mids. It doesn't need a boost as some of the old Peaveys did.

Yep, definitely agree on the V30s.

That was a pretty good summary of the Kraken, but I don't think you need to drop the gain so low to get the sound clean. It also depends on the pickups. I played through both amps again yesterday and this is definitely my favourite of the two.

[one]

Thanks, guys, you've helped me a lot. I'm almost decided, waiting for the shop owner to accept my offer :)

[Lord Blakers]

No worries dude. I wish you a lot of fun with your new amp!

[Dave Sloven]

If you get the V30 cab there's a good chance it will sound shrill and nasal until broken in.

Also the V30s will not sound at their best at 'bedroom volumes' and the speakers will NEVER break in at those volumes.  You will need to play through them for several hours at gigging volumes to break them in.  When broken in I think you will find them to be superior, especially when playing in a mix with a bass and drums.

[one]

Thanks, mates, I just ordered the EVH

I plan to play with it 75% of the time in the band, but not crazy volumes, so what do you recommend? Should I get a custom cabinet made with a V30 an a different one to ease that shrillness and nasal problems or just go for another kind of cabinet?

As long as it is the Ivory version, I'd like a white or ivory cabinet, so I was thinking about the Kraken cabinet which is not very heavy, vertical, 100w and that colour. I don't want to spend more than 500-600€. The other option is the 5150 cab in the same colour, but is almost the same price, horizontal (I prefer the other) and 60w.

I'm open to your wise advice, bros :)

[Dave Sloven]

You could combine a V30 with a CL80, but realistically if you get a good 212 v30 cab used it should be broken in.
I contemplated fitting a pair of CL80s into my Orange PPC412 cab, but then I started cranking the cab more often and broke the V30s in.  Since then it's all been gravy.

By 'gigging volumes' I mean at the level where you can just hear the drummer without the kit mic'd up.  On a 6534+ that's around 2.5-3 on the post gain for the lead channel.  On a 50W amp that might be a little higher, say 4.

[Lord Blakers]

Congrats. Let us know how you get on with it.

I can't really give you much advice on the speakers, I've pretty much always used V30s as they work well for me. I found that they tend to break in quite quickly.

The Victory 2x12 vertical cab is not as wide as the EVH mini. An overhanging amp is not a good look, so please don't buy that one!

[one]

The Victory 2x12 vertical cab is not as wide as the EVH mini. An overhanging amp is not a good look, so please don't buy that one!

Well, according to the specs, the difference in just 1 cm. so maybe not looking so bad. Not too many to choose from, I'll probably ask you for help later, with a list of possible cabs. :)

[one]

I just got a 5150 50w, I'll post pics later. I have two quick questions:

1. I don't have a cab yet and could resist trying it with headphones yesterday, a friend told me not to do this again because I could destroy the transformer since it ALWAYS has to be connected to a cab to allow the energy steming from it go out of the head, is it true? In that case, I won't switch it on again until I get the cab.

2. My friend told me the sound out of the cab is much better than that of the headphones alone, which made me feel a big relief, because I thought the third channel sounded overwhelmingly trebblish and hissing. True too, I hope?

[Dave Sloven]

1. I don't have a cab yet and could resist trying it with headphones yesterday, a friend told me not to do this again because I could destroy the transformer since it ALWAYS has to be connected to a cab to allow the energy steming from it go out of the head, is it true? In that case, I won't switch it on again until I get the cab.

Yes, your friend is 100% correct!!  The same is true if you turn on your amp without the cable connected between the amp and the cab.  The good news is that I did the latter once and my Peavey 6534+ survived.  But you could kill the output transformer.  You also need to make sure that you have a proper speaker cable, not an instrument cable, between the amp and the cab, and that the impedance on the cab is matched to that on the amp. Looking at the back panel of your amp it has the same variable impedance switch used on the Peaveys, just make sure you have it set to match the cab (4, 8, or 16 ohms).

2. My friend told me the sound out of the cab is much better than that of the headphones alone, which made me feel a big relief, because I thought the third channel sounded overwhelmingly trebblish and hissing. True too, I hope?

Of course it will be much better. The other thing that worries me here is that I see no dedicated headphone jack on the 5150 III.  What did you plug those headphones into?????

I would strongly suggest a careful read of the instruction manual before using any equipment, especially if it is unfamiliar equipment (it sounds like you have only used combos before).


EDIT: I do see a head phone jack now.  I am assuming that the cab still needs to be plugged in, but if there is a circuit inside the head that allows for you to do it without the cab (i.e., that sets the impedance to the transformer to a standard headphone impedance) then it might be okay.  But my point about reading the manual carefully stands.

EDIT:: Looking at the manual online it is a little vague on the headphones (all it says is that when headphones are put in the speaker cab is muted) but there is the following note regarding always having speakers connected:

" A speaker must always be plugged into one of the speaker jacks when the EVH amplifier is ON or damage may occur. Switch the amplifier "OFF" or to "STANDBY" while changing speaker connections or impedance settings."

http://support.evhgear.com/manuals/EVH_5150III_50W_AmpHead_OwnersManual_079107b.pdf

This is another tip from me in case you haven't heard this: when switching your amp to standby make sure you have signal going to the amp (i.e., nothing is muting the signal into the amp, such as a tuner being on) and strum it until the green light goes out.  This will drain the residual charge from your capacitors and avoid a 'pop' sound. Then turn the amp off once that light has gone out.  Then, and only then, turn it off at the wall.  When starting up let it warm for a while in standby before switching the amp completely on.

[one]

1. I don't have a cab yet and could resist trying it with headphones yesterday, a friend told me not to do this again because I could destroy the transformer since it ALWAYS has to be connected to a cab to allow the energy steming from it go out of the head, is it true? In that case, I won't switch it on again until I get the cab.

Yes, your friend is 100% correct!!  The same is true if you turn on your amp without the cable connected between the amp and the cab.  The good news is that I did the latter once and my Peavey 6534+ survived.  But you could kill the output transformer.  You also need to make sure that you have a proper speaker cable, not an instrument cable, between the amp and the cab, and that the impedance on the cab is matched to that on the amp. Looking at the back panel of your amp it has the same variable impedance switch used on the Peaveys, just make sure you have it set to match the cab (4, 8, or 16 ohms).

2. My friend told me the sound out of the cab is much better than that of the headphones alone, which made me feel a big relief, because I thought the third channel sounded overwhelmingly trebblish and hissing. True too, I hope?

Of course it will be much better. The other thing that worries me here is that I see no dedicated headphone jack on the 5150 III.  What did you plug those headphones into?????

I would strongly suggest a careful read of the instruction manual before using any equipment, especially if it is unfamiliar equipment (it sounds like you have only used combos before).


EDIT: I do see a head phone jack now.  I am assuming that the cab still needs to be plugged in, but if there is a circuit inside the head that allows for you to do it without the cab (i.e., that sets the impedance to the transformer to a standard headphone impedance) then it might be okay.  But my point about reading the manual carefully stands.

Hahaha, thanks for you help, agent orange, it is my first head, you're right, but I plugged it into the headphones line, no problem. I thought I read nothing about it in the very short manual that I of course took first. But oh, dear, I hope I haven't screwed it, I played for an hour with the headphones :( I didn't notice anything weird from the sound in the beginning and in the end of my playing, I hope everything is okay. I can't wait for trying it with a cab, I think I'm buying the paired evh 2x12 in no time.

Edit: Gosh, I just read it, how can I know if I damaged the damn thing?

[Dave Sloven]

I made an edit above that shows stuff from the manual

An hour is a lot longer that the couple of minutes of silence that I put mine through.  Hopefully the circuitry for the headphones protected your output transformer somehow but I wouldn't recommend repeating that experiment.

This is an example of a speaker cable:



http://www.thomann.de/gb/planet_waves_pws05.htm

[Dave Sloven]

Edit: Gosh, I just read it, how can I know if I damaged the damn thing?

You won't really know until you plug a proper speaker cable and a speaker cabinet and play through that.  If it sounds fine then wipe the sweat from your forehead and just remember the proper procedures for the future.  It's possible that you may have taken some of the life off of the output transformer but if there is no issues with the sound then it is unlikely that there is visible damage that a warranty repairer could see, and if it doesn't get through the warranty period you might be able to take it back to be fixed as long as you don't repeat this story!  If you plug it in and it sounds bad then it is likely that there was worse damage and you probably would not get away with taking it back under warranty. In that case you would just have to spend the extra on a replacement transformer.  I am guessing though that it will be fine.  Most amps are pretty robust.  If the sound you were hearing did not weaken as you were playing I am guessing it is probably okay.

[one]

Thanks for your help, man. I found this, what do you think? (3rd post):

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/evh-5150-iii-50w-part-ii.1052359/page-32

[Dave Sloven]

Yeah well he might be correct but there are a lot of 'know-it-alls' out there who speak very confidently like that.

I tend to think that there is a good chance that you will be okay, but I would not do that again just to be safe.  I would keep a speaker cable and speaker cab plugged into the head whenever you are using it (with the ohm load set correctly on the amp) and then plug in headphones if you want to use them for quiet practicing.  I would not gamble on the basis of forum hearsay I would take the most conservative route, which is having the speaker plugged in with the correct cable and resistance load and following the correct warm up and turn off procedures.

Hopefully you get a cab and speaker cable soon so that you can give the head a proper play.  When I got my Peavey I had to look at it sitting there for at least a couple of weeks before I managed to get my Orange cab and speaker cable, and only then did I start it up.