Floyd Rose tension

[GuitarIv]

Hey mates,

got a question regarding the tension on a OFR equipped guitar. The axe in question is my Jackson Rhoads Elite, it has your typical 25.5 Fender scale. I play tuned to E-Standard with Elixir strings, right now most of my playing is done on a LP Studio with a 10-52 set, gives me perfect bounce back of the strings and everything stays tight and focused for fast thrash riffing.

Since I wanted to transfer this to the slightly longer scale of the Rhoads I figured I'd compensate with slightly slinkier lower strings, took the E, A and D string from a 11-49 set. I feel however that I still have too much "give" if that makes sense. The strings aren't feeling as stiff as on my LP so my right hand attack is way off.

I've been thinking about restringing it with the 10-52s, but that wouldn't make much sense, would it? I know Floyds feel different since they are trems (duh) but I don't wanna utilize the Tremol-No I have laying around to block it as I've been quite enjoying doing flutter effects and dive bombs/pull ups, kinda after years finally got into that matter.

Would additional springs in the trem cavity help? Got 3 of them installed currently, I don't mind sacrificing some flutter and give on the trem if I gain the more familiar tightness of the strings like I have it on the LP. More of a rhythm player anyway.

Ideas are welcome, fire away! 

[Slartibartfarst42]

It seems to me that, to a degree, this issue will always be there because by definition, any guitar with a non-blocked trem system will have more give because there are springs involved. I stopped trying to make all mine the same, I just accept that they're different. I use a Les Paul, a Fender Stratoocaster with a vintage trem amd a PRS with a Floyd Rose. Three different bridges and three different scale lengths but they all use .009-.046 strings and I can't fathom why they feel different in the way that they do. The PRS offers least resistance on the strings while the Fender offers most resistance with the Gibson sitting somewhere between the two. That doesn't make sense to me given their respective scale lengths and bridges but that's the way they feel to me.

[AndyR]

I started out as a strat-player, and I did a lot of gigs with the trem blocked (mainly so that we could keep playing in a 3-piece when I broke a string).

Later I started using guitars with shorter scale lengths as well. I found these felt a lot floppier, so I had to up the string gauge for the shorter guitars.

I settled on using my standard (at the time) 10s on Fender scale-length and 11s on Gibson. They felt reasonably close, and I did that for a few years very happily.

Then I "retired" and didn't touch a guitar for years.

When I "started up again" as a home player/recorder, I was playing a strat and broke a string. I didn't have any 10s, so I put 11s on as a temporary measure. I absolutely loved it. I decided to live with 11s on everything. You get used to it quite quickly. I find I can switch scale lengths, tensions, fretboard radius, neck profile, fret size/profile, humbuckers to singles, etc, etc, etc, really quickly nowadays. It wasn't always like this - it used to take me ages to acclimatise myself, I'd be worrying I was playing badly, etc. I decided to stop (like Slarti) trying to make them feel the same - I just embrace the differences, and I seem to be able to put one down and pick another up and still sound the same, I just feel a bit different and maybe play a bit different.

Anyway, here's why scale length affects the tension: with a longer scale length but the same weight of string, you need to increase the tension to get it to the same pitch - so a longer scale feels "tougher" and less "giving" when using the same strings. That's all it is.

Now, whether a floating trem affects tension - I personally think it does, it feels like it to me... but I've heard arguments it doesn't and that we just imagine it.

There's another thing I find  affects tension on guitars with separate bridge and tailpiece - try raising and lowering the tailpiece. Screw it down and (I believe) you get stiffer strings for the same pitch. That's what I find on my gibson guitars. I no longer try to get the tailpiece down to the body "for the tone" - I set it for the feel of the strings.

[Plenum n Heather]

My general rule of thumb now is:
Fender scale length, 10s
Gibson scale length, 11s
Floyd Rose, 9s

I don't know if I am just more careless than the average user, but the difference in feel doesn't really bother me. They are different instruments and I expect something different from each one.

OFRs can be such a pain the butt to deal with in terms of balancing, and I am convinced it was designed with 9s in mind.

[gwEm]

Smiling to myself at Andy and Ben's posts, as I have come to similar conclusions.

Default string gauge is 11s
10s for vintage trems
9s for floyd trems

[blue]

just to throw something less scientific into it, I have found that with several Les Pauls, with the same guage strings and what appears to be pretty much the same setup as regards string height and tailpiece angle, you can get remarkably different feels.  One guitar can feel stiff and unforgiving while another is supple and bendy, allowing easy vibrato and bending.  I have no idea why this is, and it's not just me as a couple of friends agreed that they could feel the difference.

Anyway, I used to put 10's on my Gibson and 9's on my Fender.  I've moved up to 10's on the Fender as well, and now that I've been playing a Gretsch with 12's I'm considering 11's for my Les Paul.  But, as I've gotten older, I find it much easier to move from one guitar to another and not have to make concious adjustments for guage and scale length. 

[GuitarIv]

Hmmm... yeah I kinda already accepted the fact that every guitar will feel different. What I'm trying to do here is just push the Rhoads into a stiffer response, so I guess the only thing left to do here is to experiment. I noticed on my Dinky that when I blocked the Floyd with the Tremol-No and put 10-52s on it gave me exactly the feeling I love. It was perfect when blocked, with that exact set of strings and tuned to E-Flat Standard.

I will order some additional springs and install the tremol-no. Will report back with results. I really don't wanna go slinkier regarding string gauge because as already mentioned, I forced myself years ago to switch to heavy strings and now I can't play anything lighter anymore without being way off with attack and bends. Sure, I could force myself to relearn it, but then again I have the benefit now of being able to pickup a steel string acoustic anytime and play effortlessly... the problems we guitar players seem to have sometimes hahahaha

[Slartibartfarst42]

I'd tend to agree that Floyds seem to be designed with .009 strings in mind but I see no obvious reason why they won't work with a heavier gauge. I'm lucky in that respect because I never really bothered with chasing the whole 'heavier strings are better' thing so I'm settled with Elixir .009-.046 strings and I use them regardless of the guitar.

[Dave Sloven]

I am guessing that Floyds have an optimum string tension, so that as you tune down that same string tension would require a heavier gauge.

e.g., 9s in E = 10s in D = 11s in C etc

What I am wondering is if hybrid sets would work well, e.g., 9-46, 10-52, 11-56

[Slartibartfarst42]

I can't speak for all of those options but I use 9-46 on my current PRS that's equipped with a Floyd and it's never given me anything but excellent service. I also used 9-46 strings when I had the Jackson Soloist that came with a Floyd and again, there were no issues at all, though I stress that in both instances I invested time in making sure that I had the whole thing set up exactly right.

[GuitarIv]

Regarding string gauge I made up a hybrid set, using the regular E, B and G strings from a set of 10s and the E, A and D from a 11-49 set, all Elixir. I do all my setups on my own with fairly low action and accurate intonation, so no worries there, trem works like a charm. As said I'll get back with results as soon as I order some additional springs and put on the 10-52 set