Looking for the perfect pickups for my RG570

[Dave Sloven]

If in doubt the C-Bomb is the safer option

Neither Nailbomb is a great lead pickup though.  If you want to use the bridge pickup for leads I would go for something else like a Miracle Man or Holy Diver.

[silence2-38554]

Safer option in what regard? 

Also, I realized I didn't mention in the OP- this particular Ibanez has had all of the finish stripped off of the body & neck then re-finished with Tru-Oil & wax.  I'm starting to realize just how much the finish has an impact on the acoustic tone of a guitar & feel that this may be impacting my difficulty in finding a proper pickup for this guitar. 

What I think is contributing to this RG having more low-mid than typical RG's-

Re-finished with only Tru-Oil & wax (body & neck)
KGC brass block installed on Lo-Pro bridge
Tremol-no installed & pretty much always locked, further coupling the bridge to the body

I just compared the acoustic tone of the 570 to my 4 other guitars & it certainly seems to have the most even tone.  My .strandberg* Bodens have a lot more high end / high mids and my Sabre Syren is much darker due to it's wenge neck.  This explains why I prefer the Juggs in the Boden & the Painkiller in the Sabre.  The Nailbomb still seems to make sense as a middle ground in the Ibanez but the alnico / ceramic decision is killing me haha

[Yellowjacket]

Ask BK for a Ceramic / Alnico hybrid.  DOO IT!!!

[Dave Sloven]

Safer with regard to the 'mids monster' possibility.

On the other hand the alnico version will be a bit better for leads, but neither version is the best lead pickup.  They are great rhythm pickups, nice and tight.

[Slartibartfarst42]

If it has to be a Nailbomb I'd also be inclined to go alnico because of the better leads and greater versatility but I confess I'm still hesitant as it really is an 'all or nothing' pickup. It's also, to my mind at least, nowhere even remotely close to the 'middle ground' you're talking about if one of those reference points is a Holydiver. As a result of all this, perhaps it's time that we review what we have and perhaps look at some 'left field' solutions. Everything so far has come from the Contemporary section and you've dismissed the Juggernaut, Holydiver, Painkiller, Black Hawk and Aftermath already. The Warpig and Miracle Man will have too much low end so they can go too, as can the Crawler which won't be tight enough anyway. I have severe doubts the Impulse will be what you want and there is clearly doubt about the Nailbombs. That doesn't leave us with much but it does leave us with a couple of intriguing possibilities.

Rebel Yell - Based heavily on the Nailbomb but toned down a bit. Personally I'm not sure in your guitar but if it's as balanced as you say and you want more upper mids with a good lead tone, this might be a better option than the A-Bomb.

Cold Sweat - This is nothing like as bright as the EQ chart suggests in my opinion, though it is 'bright' overall. A lot of this is due to the fact that as well as a strong top end, it has some nice upper mids that are nothing like as harsh as you get on the Nailbomb. It's tight so will take lower tunings like a trooper. It's also a fantastic lead pickup. This could well be worth a look even though its natural home is a Les Paul (like a Nailbomb).

After this you've exhausted the Contemporary section so I started to think about other alternatives. There are a number of pickups that can be said to be broadly related to the Holydiver. The Miracle Man retains that smoothness but with it being a hotter wind, it has the darkness you don't want. Going the other way, you get to the Black Dog and once I started thinking about this one, it started to really make a LOT of sense. It has the throatiness that you think of with a Nailbomb but toned down somewhat. It gives quite broad mids like the Holydiver but with it being a lighter wind, tends to be a bit brighter overall so it should give you that bit more boost in the upper mids that you're after without becoming harsh in any way. It should also pair very well with a VHII in the neck and give you great leads, as well as being easily tight enough for lower tunings, hence it's a popular Metal pickup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaqEET376-I

This strikes me as far more of the middle ground you're talking about than the Nailbomb. The vintage hot wind coupled with modern wire gives you a great versatile 'middle ground' pickup with awesome tone. I really think you'd be surprised with this one as I think it might be your best option. Can't think why I didn't think of it earlier!

[Yellowjacket]

Black Dog sounds like a very interesting recommendation.

[Slartibartfarst42]

I've been thinking of this all day since I made the suggestion of a Black Dog and I honestly can't think of a downside. The more I've thought about it, the more sure I've become that a Black Dog is the way to go. Just think of what is required of this pickup:

Tight - Yes
Capable of taking low tunings - Yes
Great lead tone - Yes
The throatiness of a Nailbomb - Yes
Aggression - Yes
More top end with upper mids - Yes
No harshness - Yes
A rich and organic tone - Yes
Smooth high end - Yes
No sharpness - Yes
Perfect middle ground between Holydiver and C-Bomb - YES

The Black Dog ticks ALL of the boxes. I think that as soon as Metalcore was mentioned we became fixated on contemporary pickups but there's no reason to, especially as the OP probably already has an amp that gives him more than enough gain and we know perfectly well that the Black Dog can cover that style with ease. I've probably put more thought into this thread than most others I've contributed to and I'm utterly convinced that this would be a great option for the OP based on everything he's told us.

[Yellowjacket]

Ya.  Very good call.

[ericsabbath]

my first thought was black dog too
not a middlegrounder at all, though, and I wouldn't call it aggressive compared to the others, except the holy diver
nothing a mild boost/eq/overdrive/compressor pedal won't deliver

[Slartibartfarst42]

When I said 'middle ground' it was only in relation to the fact that it seems to hit a lot of ground between the Holydiver and Nailbomb while also having the right EQ. It sounded like he wanted something that was a bit more aggressive than the Holydiver without the extremity of a Nailbomb and again, the Black Dog hits that ground. We seem to have reached a bit of a consensus however that on balance, the Black Dog is probably the best option.

[silence2-38554]

I've been thinking of this all day since I made the suggestion of a Black Dog and I honestly can't think of a downside. The more I've thought about it, the more sure I've become that a Black Dog is the way to go. Just think of what is required of this pickup:

Tight - Yes
Capable of taking low tunings - Yes
Great lead tone - Yes
The throatiness of a Nailbomb - Yes
Aggression - Yes
More top end with upper mids - Yes
No harshness - Yes
A rich and organic tone - Yes
Smooth high end - Yes
No sharpness - Yes
Perfect middle ground between Holydiver and C-Bomb - YES

The Black Dog ticks ALL of the boxes. I think that as soon as Metalcore was mentioned we became fixated on contemporary pickups but there's no reason to, especially as the OP probably already has an amp that gives him more than enough gain and we know perfectly well that the Black Dog can cover that style with ease. I've probably put more thought into this thread than most others I've contributed to and I'm utterly convinced that this would be a great option for the OP based on everything he's told us.

Dude, I SO appreciate all the thought you put into this!  How would you compare the Black Dog and Rebel Yell?  Listening to this clip:

https://youtu.be/hSoDFyYSauc

The Black Dog is actually one of my favorites tone-wise out of all the metal stuff.  I really wanted to take this as an opportunity to try out the Nailbomb, but I think the Black Dog is more along the lines of what this guitar really needs.  What's the Black Dog neck like?  Will the bridge pair up well with a VHII neck or should I look at the Black Dog set?  My main issue with BKP sets, with the exception of the Juggernaut set, is that the neck pickup ALWAYS sounds like a bridge pickup in the neck position to me.  The Holy Diver neck was probably my least favorite, just as a point of comparison to the Black Dog.

[Yellowjacket]

If you like the jugerneck pair the black dog bridge with a vh II neck. 

[Slartibartfarst42]

A Black Dog bridge and VHII neck should work beautifully.

I'm really thrown by your comment about the neck pickups sounding like bridge pickups. In theory, this is perfectly understandable as there's no earthly reason why any of the pickups needs to just be used in the bridge or neck. I think it might feel that way because a handwound pickup offers so much more articulation than mass produced items, which is what we normally associate with a bridge pickup. I find BKP and some other handwinders unusual in this respect as their neck versions are so very different to the bridge versions. I actually really liked the Holydiver neck, though I admit that it's nothing like the 80's Metal tone I was expecting, which is why I eventually paired an Emerald neck pickup with the Holydiver bridge while I used the Holydiver neck with a Crawler bridge as it had a more PAF feel. What they all seem to have in common is fantastic articulation. Perhaps that's why they sound like bridge pickups.

[silence2-38554]

A Black Dog bridge and VHII neck should work beautifully.

I'm really thrown by your comment about the neck pickups sounding like bridge pickups. In theory, this is perfectly understandable as there's no earthly reason why any of the pickups needs to just be used in the bridge or neck. I think it might feel that way because a handwound pickup offers so much more articulation than mass produced items, which is what we normally associate with a bridge pickup. I find BKP and some other handwinders unusual in this respect as their neck versions are so very different to the bridge versions. I actually really liked the Holydiver neck, though I admit that it's nothing like the 80's Metal tone I was expecting, which is why I eventually paired an Emerald neck pickup with the Holydiver bridge while I used the Holydiver neck with a Crawler bridge as it had a more PAF feel. What they all seem to have in common is fantastic articulation. Perhaps that's why they sound like bridge pickups.

I think you hit the nail on the head, actually.  It's the extra treble, or articulation, I'm not used to & could not jive with.  To clarify, my favorite production neck pickup ever is the Dimarzio Air Norton.  Super fluid, no high end at all.  Perfect for a neck pickup IMO haha.  This is also why I like the Juggernaut neck & will most likely be into the VHII.

Back to the bridge pickup, how would you compare the Black Dog & Rebel Yell?  They both seem to be described as high-mid forward, lower gain than BKP's really high output models, still good for metal but flexible enough to do rock, etc. as well.  If the pickups really are that similar, I would prefer the model with more of it's own "character", "hair", etc.  I really dislike sterile pickups, which is why I didn't like the Aftermath, Cold Sweat, Lace Alumitones, etc.  The more complex the sonic character is, the better.  Judging from the Modern Metal clip mash-up I posted, the Black Dog is sounding pretty sweet in this regard, but this is what really attracted me to the A-Bomb in the first place.

[Yellowjacket]

A Black Dog bridge and VHII neck should work beautifully.

I'm really thrown by your comment about the neck pickups sounding like bridge pickups. In theory, this is perfectly understandable as there's no earthly reason why any of the pickups needs to just be used in the bridge or neck. I think it might feel that way because a handwound pickup offers so much more articulation than mass produced items, which is what we normally associate with a bridge pickup. I find BKP and some other handwinders unusual in this respect as their neck versions are so very different to the bridge versions. I actually really liked the Holydiver neck, though I admit that it's nothing like the 80's Metal tone I was expecting, which is why I eventually paired an Emerald neck pickup with the Holydiver bridge while I used the Holydiver neck with a Crawler bridge as it had a more PAF feel. What they all seem to have in common is fantastic articulation. Perhaps that's why they sound like bridge pickups.

I think you hit the nail on the head, actually.  It's the extra treble, or articulation, I'm not used to & could not jive with.  To clarify, my favorite production neck pickup ever is the Dimarzio Air Norton.  Super fluid, no high end at all.  Perfect for a neck pickup IMO haha.  This is also why I like the Juggernaut neck & will most likely be into the VHII.

Back to the bridge pickup, how would you compare the Black Dog & Rebel Yell?  They both seem to be described as high-mid forward, lower gain than BKP's really high output models, still good for metal but flexible enough to do rock, etc. as well.  If the pickups really are that similar, I would prefer the model with more of it's own "character", "hair", etc.  I really dislike sterile pickups, which is why I didn't like the Aftermath, Cold Sweat, Lace Alumitones, etc.  The more complex the sonic character is, the better.  Judging from the Modern Metal clip mash-up I posted, the Black Dog is sounding pretty sweet in this regard, but this is what really attracted me to the A-Bomb in the first place.

Compared to an A-Bomb, the Rebel Yell is clearer and more open sounding with less grunt in the low.  The A-Bomb is hairy and 'dissonant' sounding which causes it to have a lot of perceived gain.  The Rebel Yell is consonant and it growls with this harmonic evenness.  The trouble is that the low end is high, tight, and clear, without much low mids at all.  It has upper mids but beyond that, no one frequency really sticks out.  There is a harmonic sheen that surrounds notes and chords.  In my experience, the Rebel Yell sounded good but a bit bright in my Les Paul.  Lacking output.
I put it in a solid mahogany guitar with a bolt on mahogany neck and rosewood board and the results were astounding.  The Mahogany adds back in the missing low mids and the Rebel Yell sounds absolutely immense in that guitar.

To me, it sounds like the Black Dog has more lows and less highs than the Rebel Yell?  Seems like it would work better for what you want.   Make no mistake, the Rebel Yell is awesome.  I just love it in a very dark guitar.