Looking for the perfect pickups for my RG570

[Slartibartfarst42]

I think Yellowjacket has it about right here. The Rebel Yell may be a great pickup but to my mind, it's a pickup very definitely designed for a Les Paul style guitar. The upper mids are smoother than the very hairy and aggressive Nailbomb and that's great but without your guitar naturally producing low end, it's going to seem rather bright. Being a lighter wind, the Black Dog will tend to be naturally brighter anyway as the hotter the wind, the darker a pickup tends to sound but that's fine because you end up with a pickup that is bright enough for what you want while retaining enough low mids and bottom end to come across as more balanced. The Holydiver has a broad set of mids and my overall impression has always been that the Black Dog is similar but the lighter wind makes it that bit brighter overall. I think this is why the website talks about a 'deep bottom end' and many reviews then say the pickup is brighter than they expected. The description on the website makes it sound like some sort of vintage Warpig in some respects and it's not. What you do end up with is a PAF-style pickup that gives a more muscular, throaty and deeper tone than others because of the broad sweep of mids but remains bright and articulate compared to its hotter and darker brethren. The other thing I'd say, if you're looking for something a bit different is that in the BKP range, the Black Dog is unusual. For the most part, PAF-style pickups use 42AWG wire with either an AII, AIV or AV magnet. Modern pickups tend to be AV or ceramic magnets with 43, 44 or 45AWG wire, depending on the output. The Rebel Yell is typical of this approach but the Black Dog is that bit different because you have a hot PAF wind with modern wire and this is one of the reasons why, despite not looking much hotter than a VHII bridge, you get a pickup that is thicker, throatier, more aggressive and generally has more grunt. Frankly I'd love to see BKP do this a bit more. The Emerald neck uses an AIV magnet with 43AWG and that's unusual, which is one of the reasons I love it. The neck pickup in my Les Paul is an AII magnet with 42.5AWG - again unusual and the results are fantastic. Don't be put off by the description of 'deep bottom end' because it's brighter than you'd imagine with the upper mids you're after, it's just that it's not heavily focused there like it is with the Rebel Yell.

[Lucas]

If in doubt the C-Bomb is the safer option

Neither Nailbomb is a great lead pickup though.  If you want to use the bridge pickup for leads I would go for something else like a Miracle Man or Holy Diver.

I totally agree with that. As I have both CBomb and MM bridge models, I can confirm that Cbombs weakest side are leads. It`s great rhythm pickup which shines especially in hard rock in my opinion,  giving it some modern twist and aggression but when it comes to leads in general my Miracle Man is waaaaay better without a doubt. Although Cbomb has also nice cleans for ceramic magnet.
For example when last weekend I was recording my band`s first EP all leads were done with MM bridge while rhythm parts were mixed Cbomb/MM.

[silence2-38554]

Okay, well....  I was just about to pull the trigger on the Black Dog bridge / VHII neck set, then I realized I wasn't totally sure the VHII Is the right answer for the neck of this guitar.  Reading around, it seems like the Emerald neck and Black Dog neck would also be worthy for the voice I'm looking for.  Again, I love the Juggerneck, which is essentially a beefed up VHII.  So, I know I'd like the VHII but at the same time, I sorta already have access to that tone in the Juggerneck.  If I'm going for versatility, should I maybe consider something else?

The Emerald neck is very intriguing to me, due to the fact that it is also an unconventionally constructed pickup, much like the Black Dog bridge.  Would they pair up well?  When I had a Holy Diver set a couple years ago, everyone suggested the Emerald neck since I hated how much attack the Holy Diver neck had.  So, if the outputs work well together, I may go for Black Dog bridge / Emerald neck.

Can anyone here compare the VHII / Emerald / Black Dog neck models?  Thanks!

[Slartibartfarst42]

The Emerald neck is probably the best BKP neck pickup I've ever used and together with the Holydiver neck, helped to form my current thinking of how I like my neck pickups constructed, though the Emerald and Holydiver neck pickups are quite different in many respects. No other Bare Knuckle combines an AIV magnet with 43AWG wire and that combination of vintage magnet and modern wire creates an incredible pickup. It's very articulate while also being quite thick, fluid and creamy. The Black Dog uses slightly more vintage 42.5AWG wire but pairs it with a slightly less 'vintage' AV magnet. The VHII retains the AV magnet but sticks to more traditional 42AWG wire. On that basis, I would expect the VHII to have the most rounded bass response because that's what 42AWG wire always does to my ears, though the AV magnet will mean it's still very articulate. It's significant that the Juggernaut neck, while very similar to the VHII, switches to 42.5AWG wire to give it a slightly crisper response in the bottom end.

On paper, the Emerald neck looks hotter than the Black Dog bridge but of course, slightly thinner wire accounts for part of that. Nevertheless, it will still be very close in power to the Black Dog bridge and on that basis, I'd be inclined to go for the Black Dog set or possibly try a Riff Raff in the neck, the same as Bruce Dickinson. The change in wire can have a big impact. My own favourite neck pickup at the moment uses an AII magnet with 42.5AWG wire and it's sublime.

[silence2-38554]

Alright, well, at this point I suppose it's really a decision between the Black Dog & VHII neck.  Tough finding many direct comparisons between these two.....

[silence2-38554]

That's really weird about the juggs having a 'sharp treble' during trem picking.  In my experience, the are certainly rounded and present in the low mids, but the upper mids are smooth, even if there is somewhat of a bite in the treble.  Not a harsh pickup at all.

Even more weird about the upper mid dominant painkillers having a smoother top end than juggs.  Totally opposite from my experience with these pickups. 

The A-Bomb is hairy and it has this low mid grind you are talking about.  Its a balanced sounding pickup but this means that the top end is  more present and aggressive than the Juggs.  In a Les Paul, the treble is sharper and the pick attack is more present than the Juggs installed in a brighter guitar.

I would take the A-Bomb in a Les Paul and the Juggernaut Bridge in a Baswood Body / Maple Neck RG, but that's just me.

I wanted to update this thread & let everyone know that I figured out why I thought the treble of the Jugg and A-Hawk were overly sharp.  It's because I had both of those pickups installed in guitars with only a volume pot, no tone!  To test this, I opened up the back of my 570, which still has the Juggs in it & soldered a 470k resistor in series with a .022 cap from the pot's casing to the output lug.  This simulates a tone pot being part of the circuit & low & behold, the screechy high end of the Jugg bridge is GONE!  When I felt the A-Hawk had the same issue, it was installed in my old RGD2127z, a 26.5" scale 7 string with only a volume pot.  Man, I will never judge a pickup's tone without a tone pot (or equivalent resistor / cap) again!!

[Dave Sloven]

This is probably what I need on the neck pickup of my Explorer.  Do you have a diagram of how to wire this up?

[silence2-38554]

This is probably what I need on the neck pickup of my Explorer.  Do you have a diagram of how to wire this up?

I actually just stumbled across this thread over on sevenstring & followed Nolly's advice-

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?t=320215

[Dave Sloven]

Thanks.  So you just went down to the local electronics shop and bought any old 500K resistor and added that with a capacitor?  I might do that.  I still have the capacitor and tone pot that I took out, so I could use the capacitor and combine it with a little resistor.  It's only the neck pickup that needs it, the bridge is fine with nothing.

[silence2-38554]

Thanks.  So you just went down to the local electronics shop and bought any old 500K resistor and added that with a capacitor?  I might do that.  I still have the capacitor and tone pot that I took out, so I could use the capacitor and combine it with a little resistor.  It's only the neck pickup that needs it, the bridge is fine with nothing.

Essentially, yes.  I had a small pack of 470k 1/2w resistors lying around that I used to test the results.  Now that I know it accomplishes what I'm after, I'll probably order some 549k 1/4w resistors from Mouser (550k isn't really a common value).  Is your explorer wired with independent volume controls & no tone?  If so, yes, doing this tweak to just the neck pickup's volume pot should get you where you want to be!

[Dave Sloven]

Yes it is just two volume controls and a selector switch.

470K would probably be about right for what I want, which is to darken the neck pickup a bit

[Dave Sloven]

I bought some resistors, one of the packs is 470K 0.5W metal film, the other is 470K 1W carbon.   All I could remember when I went in there was 470K and the guy in the shop wasn't much help, so I bought two that I thought might work rather than spend the money on fuel coming back later (they were cheap).  From your post I am thinking I should use the 1W carbon type.

[Dave Sloven]

Thanks.  I installed a 470K resistor and .022uf PIO cap tonight.  Unfortunately in doing so I managed to break the connection between the neck volume pot and the selector switch (snapped the shielded mil-spec wire moving stuff around) but got it all working again eventually.

[Yellowjacket]

That's really weird about the juggs having a 'sharp treble' during trem picking.  In my experience, the are certainly rounded and present in the low mids, but the upper mids are smooth, even if there is somewhat of a bite in the treble.  Not a harsh pickup at all.

Even more weird about the upper mid dominant painkillers having a smoother top end than juggs.  Totally opposite from my experience with these pickups. 

The A-Bomb is hairy and it has this low mid grind you are talking about.  Its a balanced sounding pickup but this means that the top end is  more present and aggressive than the Juggs.  In a Les Paul, the treble is sharper and the pick attack is more present than the Juggs installed in a brighter guitar.

I would take the A-Bomb in a Les Paul and the Juggernaut Bridge in a Baswood Body / Maple Neck RG, but that's just me.

I wanted to update this thread & let everyone know that I figured out why I thought the treble of the Jugg and A-Hawk were overly sharp.  It's because I had both of those pickups installed in guitars with only a volume pot, no tone!  To test this, I opened up the back of my 570, which still has the Juggs in it & soldered a 470k resistor in series with a .022 cap from the pot's casing to the output lug.  This simulates a tone pot being part of the circuit & low & behold, the screechy high end of the Jugg bridge is GONE!  When I felt the A-Hawk had the same issue, it was installed in my old RGD2127z, a 26.5" scale 7 string with only a volume pot.  Man, I will never judge a pickup's tone without a tone pot (or equivalent resistor / cap) again!!

This is very interesting.  My redline III with just a volume pot was always dark and phat.  About 3 weeks ago the D saddle stripped where the locking screw secures.  I tried monkeying around with a replacement oem saddle  but it did not fit right.  In frustration, I upgraded to  Schaller bridge and now the guitar is behaving much more the way you are describing.

For the install, by some miracle the pins lined up, the rout fit, and the stud holes were the correct size.  I am now sad that  I will never win the lottery.

I have a 0 load pot and a 0.022uF cap on order for the guitar.  Also saddle shims to fine tune my action.   
I converted the guitar to Ibanez wiring by spinning the neck pickup 180 degrees and wiring it backwards to the BKP diagram.  I am also using a 331pF cap on the volume pot to preserve the high end as I roll down the volume pot. 

Once all the  components arrive, I will update you.  It is just weird to think  that my perception  of the pickups was so heavily coloured by the influence of the OEM bridge. 

[silence2-38554]

Hey everyone, just wanted to update this thread to let everyone know where I landed on this.  In short:  A-Bomb bridge and VHII neck won.  Here's how I got there:

From the Titans I had in the guitar that I just couldn't get along with (too dry, felt like Aftermaths, which I also detest) I swapped in a set of Juggernauts I had in another guitar.  These felt MUCH better, but I wasn't really getting the sound I wanted for this guitar.  The goal was versatility, but still all-out aggression if called for.

So, after endless hours of reading and listening to audio clips, it came down to two potential pickups I wanted to try for each position.  I ordered a VHII & Emerald neck, and a Black Dog and A-Bomb bridge.

Neck- This was a tough decision.  The Emerald is great and very unique sounding, but wasn't what I was looking for in this particular guitar.  It's sort of like a VHII with more articulate pick attack.  Sort of like a VHII neck and Holy Diver neck had an alnico IV baby I guess lol.  It wasn't that I disliked the Emerald, it's just that the VHII is SO good.  Listening back to audio clips, it is absolutely a less-compressed Juggernaut neck pickup (makes sense).  The VHII has this beautiful flutey / smokey thing going on with the mids (not tubey like an aftermath neck) while remaining articulate.  It's probably my favorite neck pickup that I have tried in any guitar ever.  Totally blown away.

Bridge- This was also a tough decision & took a lot of A/B listening to decide.  I can see the Black Dog being an incredibly versatile pickup.  However, just because it CAN do metal doesn't mean it was built for it.  I just like having a little more power under my picking hand & that's where the A-Bomb succeeded.  I found the mids of the BD to be very even, lending to it's versatility but detracting from it really having much of it's own character.  The NB, otoh, has TONS of personality, grinds, snarls, etc.  Just out of curiosity, I'll probably swap in a C8 magnet into the NB just to see what the C-Bomb is like, too.  For the sake of versatility, I'm glad I went A-Bomb, though!  One interesting note that I was not expecting- when tremolo picking leads on the bridge pickup, the attack of the BD was actually a bit sharper / harsher than the NB. 

Thanks again for the input everyone!