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Author Topic: PRS Custom 24 - Suggestions welcome…  (Read 14977 times)

McDuffed

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PRS Custom 24 - Suggestions welcome…
« on: March 31, 2017, 10:01:29 PM »
Hi everyone, first time post here.  Haven’t lurked all that much though I’ve swung by the forum before when looking for info on things BKP related.

I bought a new PRS Custom 24 which I’ve had for several months now and I’ve finally come to the conclusion that I’m not digging the 85/15 pickups.  I gave them a chance as I like some aspects of them (clarity and control) but not enough to keep them in the end.  Guitar is mahogany body maple top / rosewood neck / ebony fret board. 

I’m playing into a Boogie Mark V-35.  On the distortion side, gain is mostly dialed up.  I like a full throttle Mark IV sound and dial down the gain where needed with the volume knob.  Will occasionally throw a tube screamer on top of that for a little extra sustain in leads if needed.  Though I don’t play straight out metal, my ideal dirty channel sound is circa Faith No More “King for a Day” period.  On the clean side, I like intermediary “Strat” style sounds (typically from position 4 – i.e. neck + bridge single coils in parallel) as well as a nice warm neck HB (Burstbucker Pro or DiMarzio Air Classic).

What I don’t like about the 85/15s: I’m finding the bridge far too harsh: it’s all mids and treble.  They also seem to pick up the transient string noises more than any other guitars I have and throw it back at me in a pretty unpleasant way.  Accidental string slides on wound strings or pick scratches can be quite painful to my ears.  It’s accentuated by the “V” EQ on the Boogie which really boosts those highs but it’s not nearly as bad on my other guitars.  I could clean up my playing I suppose but that’s not happening anytime soon!  Finally, they are a little (maybe even a lot) short on “oomph“.  I recently read that the bridge pickup had a DC resistance of 8.8K.   Apparently they make up for this with the coil wire gauge / number of winds but it’s just not cutting it for me.  On the other hand, I do like the neck pickup, especially position 4.  It could be a little warmer / fatter on full HB but it’s still pretty good.  I would consider keeping it but there’s no saying how it would pair with a replacement bridge pickup, and it’s got those weird square bobbin covers so would look a little strange combined with a more classic looking bridge pickup.

What I like on the BKP side: I have a similar specced guitar (thin mahogany / maple body - rosewood / ebony Gibson scale neck) – though non-prs - with a matched pair of Rebel Yells.  It’s great and it would be a no brainer for me to replicate that but I’m looking for something at a little different here to expand my tone options.  Also, looking for something with perhaps a little bit less gain than the Rebel Yells – though probably still a little more modern than vintage.  I also own a Holy Diver bridge / Irish Tour set which I have on an HSS strat.  It’s good on the strat but I find that it is harsher than the Rebel Yell which has a more “liquid” sounding gain.  I don’t think it’s an option here. 

What I like generally: my 2006 LP with Burstbucker pro bridge sounds tremendous on the Mark V, though I need to add a touch of OD on the leads to up the sustain.  I realize it’s a different guitar though, can’t really turn the PRS into an LP – that’s not the plan anyway.

So that’s that with the rant, as always, it boils down to what would you recommend?  Rebel Yells and Holy Diver are off the table.  I think a good summary of what I am after would be a slightly dialed down Rebel Yell with a little more note definition / separation.  I saw a demo on YouTube where the Abraxas were sounding really good.  Cold Sweat and Crawlers look like they might also fit the bill but are unknowns to me at the moment.

Thanks to everyone for their inputs.

Telerocker

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Re: PRS Custom 24 - Suggestions welcome…
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2017, 01:56:50 AM »
Abraxas performs well in PRS-guitars. The Crawler is an option if the natural voice of your guitar is on the bright side. Both split well.
Mules, VHII, Crawler, MM's, IT's, BG50's.

richard

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Re: PRS Custom 24 - Suggestions welcome…
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2017, 01:09:25 PM »
You seem to be more or less describing the Abraxas. My Abraxas set is in a PRS SE Bernie which is basically an LP-alike - mahogany body/neck, rosewood board, maple cap. My Rebel Yells are in a Gibson Firebird Studio - all mahogany, set neck, rosewood board.

The RYs are more modern sounding than the Abraxas set (Abraxi?). The Abraxas bridge is a little lower in output than the RY but there's not a lot in it. The Abraxas has a little less cut in the top end. The Abraxas has more mid range and the low end is lovely and thick but not as tight as the RY.

The Abraxas is a hot-rodded Mule so it has a more vintage vibe than the RY but has a lot more power than a PAF. The Abraxas has a more rounded top end but has all the cut you need if you dial treble and presence up a little.

The neck pups are quite similar. I couldn't choose a favourite between them - they are both great.

A lot of guys have been very happy with the PRS/Abraxas set-up. I love them - my PRS was a cheapy but it's my number one gigging guitar.
PRS Bernie Marsden Abraxas set
PRS S2 Singlecut RY's
JV Strat  IT Bridge
Gibson SG JB bridge
Fender Mex Tele Thinline TV Jones Classics
Fender Bassbreaker 15
Yamaha THR 100 Dual
Quilter Aviator Cub

johnny_rock_it

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Re: PRS Custom 24 - Suggestions welcome…
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2017, 03:32:48 PM »
Seems like an Abraxas or Mule would be a good fit.

I had a McCarty that came with the 58/15's.. I didnt like the pickups at all and sold them as soon as I came to that realization.

I put in a pair of Rebel Yells into the McCarty and I could not be happier.

I got super lucky sold them for huge profit because they had just came out. My chrome covered etched' 58/15" one of the first ones to hit ebay IIRC.

ericsabbath

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Re: PRS Custom 24 - Suggestions welcome…
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2017, 06:09:28 PM »
that FNM album sounds more like alnico nailbomb material (their guitarist at the time used a gibson classic on tour, apparently with the stock 500t/496r set)
but if you want more string separation and note definition than the rebel yell, you should consider the emerald, not the abraxas
the abraxas has that slightly blurry response of alnico 4, like the mule, which actually sounds amazing, but LESS clear
« Last Edit: April 01, 2017, 06:57:57 PM by ericsabbath »
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

Telerocker

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Re: PRS Custom 24 - Suggestions welcome…
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2017, 06:41:46 PM »
I know Eric knows BKP's very well. I always hesitate to recommend the Emerald, since I have no experience with this pickup. I often read comments that it is (very) bright. For a dark Gibson LP that could be a plus, for a PRS Custom (in general brighter than a LP) it could be too much. I wouldn't call the Mule blurry btw.
Mules, VHII, Crawler, MM's, IT's, BG50's.

ericsabbath

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Re: PRS Custom 24 - Suggestions welcome…
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2017, 08:16:37 PM »
I wouldn't call the Mule blurry btw.

that's actually the greatest quality about it
it blends the notes together just a bit under gain without sounding harsh or undefined

the emerald is bright, but not overly bright
I think the rebel yell might sound brighter due to the extra upper mids
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbojhmBgy5w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ecekLV4yps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-4JG2d1ejY

the PRS Custom 24 model is quite even voiced
even the CE versions with bolt-on maple necks aren't really BRIGHT
the 22 version comes with the dragon II pickup which is really bright and still sounds pretty good

his description of the string scratching noises reminded me of my experience with the aftermath
it was way too middy and sensitive
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

Telerocker

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Re: PRS Custom 24 - Suggestions welcome…
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2017, 08:39:33 PM »
I wouldn't call the Mule blurry btw.

that's actually the greatest quality about it
it blends the notes together just a bit under gain without sounding harsh or undefined

It's probably my lack of the English language, cause with blurry I assumed 'undefined'. Your description of the Mule is spot on.
Mules, VHII, Crawler, MM's, IT's, BG50's.

McDuffed

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Re: PRS Custom 24 - Suggestions welcome…
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2017, 09:31:47 PM »
Thanks guys, appreciate the great feedback.

I completely see what Eric means about the Abraxas.  Was looking at the demo video again and can see where it is not quite as "precise" as some other pickups, especially as regards note separation on chords... perhaps more suited to an LP than a PRS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI_fs71W5Mc

But it does sound brilliant - so still on the list. 

The mule frequency chart on the BKP page does really emphasize the mid / highs though so that still has me worried given my current issues with the 85/15s.  Will go check it out though.

Slartibartfarst42

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Re: PRS Custom 24 - Suggestions welcome…
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2017, 02:26:22 PM »
I’ve owned three PRS SE Custom 24 guitars and tried a lot of different pickups in them to discover what worked best for me. A number of those pickups were BKP so I can probably offer some insight based on direct experience and what I suspect would be a good option based on that experience.

DIRECT EXPERIENCE

Bridge

The Emerald is the most vintage bridge pickup I’ve tried and it was simply way too bright. The core tone was excellent but the highs were overpowering. If you like things bright and/or your amp is dark, it might still work but for most people you’re best leaving this pickup to a Les Paul.

The Crawler was absolutely magical. Its natural home is Blues Rock but that does it an injustice because it’s very versatile indeed, covering anything from Blues to early 80’s Metal. The low end starts giving up a little after that. It’s a dark pickup and makes a PRS feel a little more like a Les Paul. There’s a captivating growl to this one. It has a wonderfully rich tone and offers the best splits you’ll ever find.

The Cold Sweat is another bright pickup but unlike the Emerald, it’s certainly useable in a PRS. It’s not as versatile as the Crawler and is more obviously a Metal pickup. The cleans are pretty good for a ceramic magnet but that magnet will always limit the quality of your cleans. I can see you liking it if you like the Rebel Yell but it is more modern and you sacrifice cleans.

I liked the Holydiver in mine but eventually changed it because it just didn’t nail that 80’s Metal tone I was after on that guitar. You’ve discounted it anyway so it doesn’t matter.

The Miracle Man works really well. The core tone is similar to the Holydiver because it’s smooth, organic, surprisingly warm for a ceramic magnet and is again, strongly reminiscent of 80’s Metal tone. Think of it as a Holydiver on steroids. It’s nothing like as scooped as the EQ chart suggests but it is a bit scooped in the upper mids. Compared to the Holydiver it has a bigger bottom end and more highs.

Neck

I didn’t like the Crawler that much at all so I wouldn’t like the Abraxas either as they’re almost the same. It was a bit dark and far too rounded in the bass for me. In fairness, I’ve only ever found one neck pickup made with 42AWG wire that I actually like and it wasn’t a Bare Knuckle so I guess I just don’t get on with the wire. I prefer my neck pickups to be more articulate in the bottom end and to do that you need 42.5AWG or 43AWG.

In comparison, the Emerald neck was superb. The AIV magnet helps to give it a vintage feel but the 43AWG wire keeps the bottom end very articulate under gain. Cleans are excellent and each note has real weight as it’s a bit thicker and darker than other neck pickups I’ve tried. I generally prefer bright neck pickups but I still loved this one.

The Holydiver also has plenty of cut in the bottom end thanks to the AV magnet and 42.5AWG wire. It sounds relatively thin compared to the Emerald and the light wind keeps it bright and surprisingly vintage sounding.

The Cold Sweat is very similar to the Rebel Yell neck. It's fluid and great for shredding but more obviously a Metal pickup.

SPECULATION

The Abraxas should work really well as it’s like a Crawler taken down a step. The AIV magnet will make it a bit softer in the bass but I imagine the extra brightness will compensate for that. It’s certainly been used for Metal before very successfully and probably sounds closer to 80’S Metal than the Holydiver thanks to the 43AWG wire.

I also think that a Black Dog set would work well. It sits nicely between vintage and modern so will be very versatile. It has the smooth mids of the Holydiver and Rebel Yell but the lighter wind will make it less harsh than the Holydiver and brighter, like the Rebel Yell. It also takes gain like a trooper so is popular with Metal players as well as those looking for something a bit more vintage so it doesn't have the potential issue you might encounter with the Abraxas. Based on everything I’ve tried, I can’t think of any reason why the Black Dog wouldn’t work really well. I think the same could be said of the neck too. It’s not unlike the Holydiver neck but a little thicker, darker and throatier. As I really liked the Holydiver neck but in an ideal world might have liked it to have more of these qualities, the Black Dog neck sounds like it might be ideal.

CONCLUSIONS

I can only speak for myself but if it was me, I’d be tempted to go with a Black Dog set. The bridge should be perfect for what you describe based on its construction and my experience of other Bare Knuckle products. Try as I might I can’t think of anything that fits your description any better.
BKP owned:

Bridge - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; A-Bomb; Holydiver; Miracle Man; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

Neck - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; Holydiver; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

McDuffed

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Re: PRS Custom 24 - Suggestions welcome…
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2017, 06:40:32 PM »
I will most definitely go and look into the Black Dogs.  I agree that they may be closer to the tone I have in mind (think RY) given they are Alnico V based.  I also like the EQ curve.  I hadn’t taken them into consideration given the lower DC resistance of the bridge compare to the Abraxas.  Likewise, the Crawler also seemed to score too high for my current need (hotter than the RY – on paper at least).  More research is called for on both fronts!

Still weary of the Cold Sweats, the graph shows them having really high treble which is the source of most of my issues at the moment. 

In any case, thanks for the comprehensive assessment.  I’m definitely going to have to consider a mix and match approach on the basis of your suggestions.

Slartibartfarst42

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Re: PRS Custom 24 - Suggestions welcome…
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2017, 09:11:39 PM »
Part of the reason that the Abraxas shows a higher DC resistance is because it uses 43AWG, which is thinner wire than the 42.5AWG used on the Black Dog. The Abraxas is still hotter but it may be closer than you think and anyway, does that really matter? Between your amp and an OD pedal, how much more gain do you really need and how much difference will it make in the real world? Sometimes the differences in DC resistance is more about 'feel' than anything else. Sure, the Cold Sweat wasn't as hot as the Miracle Man but the real difference was that it just sounded that bit more open rather than having all of that compression. I've been thinking about this for a while now and it just seems to tick a lot of boxes for you. It has the EQ you like, it has the smooth mids that I think you like from the Rebel Yell, it's between vintage and modern that you said you wanted and it has the AV magnet like the Rebel Yell. This demo has always impressed me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaqEET376-I

You could mix and match but I really think the Black Dog set would be ideal for you.
BKP owned:

Bridge - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; A-Bomb; Holydiver; Miracle Man; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

Neck - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; Holydiver; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

McDuffed

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Re: PRS Custom 24 - Suggestions welcome…
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2017, 03:43:11 AM »
Totally understand what you're saying on the output front.  As mentioned above, one of the guitars I'm getting the most joy out of atm is my LP with Burstbucker Pros - and the bridge is in the 8K range I believe. I certainly get plenty of gain on the Mark V with those without having to use any extras.

One other think I didn't really bring up previously is that I was also looking to keep the PRS in its own unique sonic territory.  I don't want it to sound like its trying too hard to be an LP as I already have a perfectly good one of those.  The closer to classic PAF I get the more it sounds like I'm trying to force the guitar into a space where it's not really at its best, hence my initial inclination to keep away from the Black Dogs and the other true to style vintage PAFs.  But then again, all things considered, other than going completely contemporary high gain, there aren't a lot of options which stray from that beaten "PAF" path and are also within the sonic spectrum I'm looking at.  After all, the whole point of PRS designing the 85/15s was to create this unique space, and in my mind at least, it's not working out.   The video you posted, which I had also checked out previously, is pretty great but, similar to the Abraxas one, is all about the Lester sound which is one of the reasons I initially set it aside.  However, they do seem to that extra clarity that I find lacking in the Abraxas (all this based on a couple of youtube videos!) so I think they are going to go to the top of list.   Will agonize over this for a few more days and let you guys know how it works out when I make the jump.

Cheers!

Slartibartfarst42

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Re: PRS Custom 24 - Suggestions welcome…
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2017, 09:07:06 AM »
I know what you mean and you're right, I always feel like the vintage hot category is too limited. Having said that, neither the Abraxas or Black Dog are really PAF pickups, they're a modern interpretation of a PAF. A PAF would normally use 42AWG wire and that's what gives it that PAF character but these both use more modern wire. Broadly speaking, the further you move from 42AWG, the less like a PAF it is likely to be. The Abraxas is 43AWG like a number of the contemporary pickups and the Black Dog is 42.5AWG and is also polysol wire instead of plain enamel.
BKP owned:

Bridge - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; A-Bomb; Holydiver; Miracle Man; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

Neck - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; Holydiver; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

McDuffed

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Re: PRS Custom 24 - Suggestions welcome…
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2017, 08:32:45 PM »
Quick update: I put the same question to BKP and also asked about the BDs as an option and Tim came back with the following response:

"I designed the Abraxas humbuckers for PRS players with this very much in mind.  I find these to be a lot more balanced in a PRS than BDs and not so strident in the mid range plus you get excellent split tone."

Given that he was specifically looking at my concerns when designing the pickup, I guess I'm going to have to go with his recommendation!  Though you almost had me on the BDs - at least I still have a plan B if things don't work out.