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Author Topic: Regius Core 7 - Swamp Ash, Flame Maple Top, 27" - Black Dogs or other BKPs?  (Read 3817 times)

Miscreant

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Hi guys,

So I've been reading everything I can about BKP pups, as well as listening to the samples online. I'm submitting this build order this week, so I need to make up my mind. After (too much) consideration, I'm leaning towards the Black Dogs (somewhat surprisingly), but Ben from BKP actually didn't think they were the best idea. I'm somewhat surprised. So I'm looking for additional opinions.

Let me try to break it down.

Sound:

This will be more of my metal guitar. I play it in a variant of open C, from 7-1: G CGC GCE.

That being said, I'm not looking for a sound all too modern. I shy away from scratchier, fizzier distortions with more compression, but still like a bright 'top' in my tone that gives it some bite. On the other hand, I still favour robust, tight, percussive lows that track fast, single-note playing. Obviously these two are in tension: I give up too much of a more modern, compressed pickup, I lose this attack and percussive tightness.

Overall, I prefer a thick, throatier mid-range that barks, but that is still very tight and focused. I get the benefits of ceramics, and I'm tempted: I want that tight percussiveness. But at the same time, I'm afraid they'll sound a bit clinical and cold, at least for my tastes.

Pups:

Here's my thoughts on where a few of the BKPs fall along that spectrum, roughly starting from darker to brighter:

1. C-Pigs: the ceramic will tighten these up, but I'm worried they'll be too dark for me, too boomy, especially on a 7-string tuned with a low G.

2. Aftermaths: though these are mid-range focused, I'm concerned they're too dry and scratchy. I hear them as 'boxy,' and am not particularly a fan of the dry djent tone. I am wondering though if I can dial that out, as these would give me the precision and attack I want. Just maybe at the cost of warmth. They're almost too unsaturated. I suspect I'm responding at least in part to the fact that these are ceramics.

3. Painkillers: these strike me as having the attack of Aftermaths, but with more hair and saturation, especially in the upper-mids. I initially thought I would go for them, but I'm a bit concerned I won't be able to rein them in, and that they'll be a touch 'messy' in their frequency profile, especially given the extra saturation. The sound these produce is a bit more unhinged.

4. Holy Divers: Ben at BKP has recommended these to me. I like them. Very sensible distortion, almost strike me as a cleaned up Painkiller. These are one of my top choices. My main concern is that I generally prefer distortions a bit thicker with rounder body, and these come across as a bit more fine-grained, with some of that 80s metal sound.

5. C/A-Bombs: these then bring us up to more modern sound. I think they're out--even the alnicos--because I hear too much fizz in them. I like something less modern, more mid-meaty. I hear them as biased around 1k and <.

So as I was gilding the lily over those options, I came across the Black Dogs. For one, their clips on BKPs site are incredible. So much bif. I love their sound profile, and I love their more organic character. They bloom and grind just the way I like.

What worries me is that Ben actually didn't think these were the best idea. Putting aside natural differences in taste and the fact that there is no right answer beyond what my own ear likes, I'm not sure where to go now. My main concern is that the Black Dogs will sound wimpy, lacking in attack, focus and precision.

So then I start to lean towards the Holy Divers. Still alnico and rounder, but with some thoatier bite than the Black Dogs.

On the other hand, even BKP says the Black Dogs are great on extended range instruments...and that round profile. Damn!

Right now I'm at: most aggressive = painkiller. Middle option: Holy Diver. Underdog: Black dogs.

Gah! Thanks for your help.

ericsabbath

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the black dog and holy diver are somewhat similar
in the same guitar, the holy diver had better sustain and lead tones
the black dog is definitely not a paf sounding pickup, but it has some similarities with 70's low output pickups, but a lot more midrange like the higher gain late 70's pickups, so it flirts with the holy diver JB vibe, but in a different package
I'm not sure I'd say one is tighter than the other, but the holy diver is definitely more compressed, but no near as compressed as a JB, super distortion or gibson 498t, not as high output either, but definitely tighter than those
both feel like medium output pickups, but the holy diver delivers more sustain
both benefit a lot from boost pedals

if you want something brighter and more open sounding, the riff raff is the most versatile pickup I ever played and it really shines at anything with the proper equipment, and also sounds pretty tight and clean, but still with "attitude"
you should consider the emerald and rebel yell too
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

evilfrenchy

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motor city Detroiter! the best of the best!

Dave Sloven

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Did you consider the Impulse and Blackhawk pickups?

I agree that the Nailbomb might not be a good choice.
BLACK HAWKS
IMPULSES
COBRA-T
WAR PIGS
STOCKHOLM
COLD SWEATS
MIRACLE MAN
TRUE GRIT

https://slovendoom.bandcamp.com/releases

Miscreant

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Did you consider the Impulse and Blackhawk pickups?

I agree that the Nailbomb might not be a good choice.

I haven't, actually--but mostly for, I'll admit, superficial reasons: I really don't like the look of that kind of pick up design. But yes, if they're the ones, then that's something I can and should drop.

After so much back and forth, I'm now learning towards the Aftermaths. Here's my reasoning:

The Aftermaths are in many ways Painkillers with tamer medium/high-mids. But they're also very tight, track very well, and though I find them a touch dry and definitely boxy, I'm hoping I can dial that out on the Axe Fx. I've been approaching this as if I won't be doing much dialing on the Axe--I do like to keep things simple, believe it or not. But now I'm thinking somewhat more strategically, where I'll take the Aftermaths because they give me the tightness and focus, but then I can try to warm them up and round them out on the amp side.

But yeah, I'll check the Blackhawks and Impulse. Where are you seeing them in my pickup line above?

Dave Sloven

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Impulse would be a tamer option. The alnico version of the Blackhawk could be a tighter and hotter alternative to the Holy Diver that avoids the hairiness of the A-Bomb
BLACK HAWKS
IMPULSES
COBRA-T
WAR PIGS
STOCKHOLM
COLD SWEATS
MIRACLE MAN
TRUE GRIT

https://slovendoom.bandcamp.com/releases

Miscreant

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Impulse would be a tamer option. The alnico version of the Blackhawk could be a tighter and hotter alternative to the Holy Diver that avoids the hairiness of the A-Bomb

I hear you. The Impulses are incredibly balanced and neutral. Their sound profile is remarkably even. Maybe I should consider them.

Does anyone have any experience dialing in Aftermaths for some more warmth and roundness? I mean, if I can keep that clinical precision but take the boxiness out, I think I could live with that.

capac

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Alnico Black Hawks are a bit on copressed side, but they don't sound boxy. They are really tight and bright and midrange isn't huge like with aftermath. They respond a little differently to some other passives I've played, but I'd defintely consider them.

Maybe cold sweat? They are pretty bright and don't have that much midrange... They are pretty tight and defined from what I can hear...
Aftermath (bridge), alnico Black hawk (set), holydiver (set)

Miscreant

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Alnico Black Hawks are a bit on copressed side, but they don't sound boxy. They are really tight and bright and midrange isn't huge like with aftermath. They respond a little differently to some other passives I've played, but I'd defintely consider them.

Maybe cold sweat? They are pretty bright and don't have that much midrange... They are pretty tight and defined from what I can hear...

The cold sweat are too scooped, with too much highs for my taste. I definitely want to stay in the mid-range, personally. I mean, again, if I can dial some roundness and warmth into the Aftermaths, I think I have my solution. If not, if I might go Painkiller just because that extra hair in the higher-mids rounds them out a bit.

I also play sometimes with the C-Bombs, but...I don't know. The distortion strikes me as a touch clinical, and a touch too inorganic. At least with the Aftermaths, even though they're so sharp, the dryness makes them sound a bit more organic, a bit less hi-fi.

At least that's the hope.

Or maybe it's what seems to fall in the middle here: Holy Divers. Rounder, more organic, nice forward mids, but not as dry as the Aftermaths, and not as fizzy as C-Bombs or Cold Sweats. I think that's turning me away is just that these have a more polished sound, and there is something narsty about the Aftermaths that turns me on.

It all comes down to what I can dial in and out at will, I think.