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Author Topic: New guitar, Caparison Dellinger  (Read 31630 times)

Lew

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« Reply #45 on: May 27, 2008, 02:31:50 PM »
I dont want to be caught in the crossfire but I agree with alot of what Noodle is trying to say.

You have made your opinion on Caparison very well known and anyone wanting to know it or find out what you think about Caparison can use the search function.

As I said in the last thread, you probably played a pre 06 non artist and as I said then, alot of your claims would be justified, also I said that I imagine you would have a different opinion playing a new model.

Every post 06 Capa is assembled, painted, wired up and set up by the same guy and the QC is great. The body and neck are still CNC'd in the Lida factory.

Bottom line is, if your not a modern metal guy, chances are your not going to get it, these guitars are so niche toward the metal scene it's not funny, they arent ment for SRV licks.

MDV

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« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2008, 02:46:57 PM »
Quote from: Lew
I dont want to be caught in the crossfire but agree with alot of what Noodle is trying to saying.

You have made your opinion on Caparison very well known and anyone wanting to know it or find out what you think about Caparison can use the search function.

As I said in the last thread you probably played a pre 06 non artist, and as I said then alot of your claims would be justified, also said, I imagine you would have a different opinion playing a new model.

Every post 06 Capa is assembled, painted, wired up and set up by the same guy and the QC is great. The body and neck are still CNC'd in the Lida factory.

Bottom line is, if your not a Metal guy, chances are your not going to get it.
These guitars are so niche toward the metal scene, they arent ment for SRV licks.


Oh, I fully accept, and have made explicit, the caveat to my opinion that its based on one guitar.

Your guesswork about that guitar (pre 06) is likely wrong, since it was in 08 and it was being sold as new. But nonetheless, its just one guitar. Its certain that, as a production instrument, there will be better quality models available (and I should hope so too! That one was terrible).

I also appreciate the desire to rationalise purchases we've made, both production and otherwise ;) (i.e. we're all very much more likely to think better of what we own than dont  :P ).

Anyway, I'm not going to be cornered into justifying my stance on this any further, and I wont be prevented from talking about caparisons, just because I have before, and I'm not going to not compare customs to production guitars. Its frankly stupid not to.

The discussion is open, all thoughts welcome, though.

Wouldnt be much of a discussion forum if we all thought the same things, now, would it  :wink:

Edit: oh, and, metal? Nah I wouldnt have any interest in that, its all just noise, innit, modern or otherwise ;)

noodleplugerine

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« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2008, 03:01:23 PM »
There are going to be plenty of production guitars out there which match what a custom builder can make, and if you're in a shop and find that one - Don't let anyone tell you about how shallow production guitars are compared to their custom superiors.

That's all I'm trying to say - I guess I didn't really make my point clear.

It just annoys me this whole, "You have £1500? I don't even know why you would consider anything other than a Feline/Legra/Wez etc". Yes you are going to have quality guaranteed, but if you find a production guitar which is well built then why does it matter ><

And now I stop :p
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Lew

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« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2008, 03:21:42 PM »
Quote from: MDV
Quote from: Lew
I dont want to be caught in the crossfire but agree with alot of what Noodle is trying to saying.

You have made your opinion on Caparison very well known and anyone wanting to know it or find out what you think about Caparison can use the search function.

As I said in the last thread you probably played a pre 06 non artist, and as I said then alot of your claims would be justified, also said, I imagine you would have a different opinion playing a new model.

Every post 06 Capa is assembled, painted, wired up and set up by the same guy and the QC is great. The body and neck are still CNC'd in the Lida factory.

Bottom line is, if your not a Metal guy, chances are your not going to get it.
These guitars are so niche toward the metal scene, they arent ment for SRV licks.


Oh, I fully accept, and have made explicit, the caveat to my opinion that its based on one guitar.

Your guesswork about that guitar (pre 06) is likely wrong, since it was in 08 and it was being sold as new. But nonetheless, its just one guitar. Its certain that, as a production instrument, there will be better quality models available (and I should hope so too! That one was terrible).

I also appreciate the desire to rationalise purchases we've made, both production and otherwise ;) (i.e. we're all very much more likely to think better of what we own than dont  :P ).

Anyway, I'm not going to be cornered into justifying my stance on this any further, and I wont be prevented from talking about caparisons, just because I have before, and I'm not going to not compare customs to production guitars. Its frankly stupid not to.

The discussion is open, all thoughts welcome, though.

Wouldnt be much of a discussion forum if we all thought the same things, now, would it  :wink:

Edit: oh, and, metal? Nah I wouldnt have any interest in that, its all just noise, innit, modern or otherwise ;)


You would not know what year the Capa was born unless you had the serial, your guess that it was post 06 is just as much guess work, unless it was Cranes where they sell a handfull of Capa's a week chances are that it was an older one.

FWIW I have no "desire" to justify anything, when I want a change of pace I sell my gear and buy something else, I dont have the space and only do amateur studio work so I personally can't justify having a host of guitars.

Im selling some gear now because I want to put some money Jonathans way as I have heard so much praise from this forum.

I didn't mean to make you feel cornered and you are right about forums and opinions.

R.E Metal, I can only assume from your signature your being sarcastic. 8)

Roobubba

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« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2008, 03:30:38 PM »
Aaaaaand relax.

People are always going to compare guitars, whether their comparisons are valid or not. The point I wish to make about custom vs production is this: in many cases, you cannot find a production guitar that meets the criteria you desire. I find myself in this very position. It's likely that the only route open to me to get the guitar I really want is to go custom.
Of course, if I were to do that, I couldn't validly compare the custom guitar of my dreams with any production guitar, because there is no production guitar I've come across yet which meets my "ideal guitar" criteria!

And custom, by its very nature, means you get aspects of the guitar that you like, therefore any comparison made by someone with a custom is probably (but not always) biased to some degree, and should be taken as such.

But anyway, if I had £3000 pounds to spend on a guitar, I know what I'd do with it and I'm not telling you lot - look what happened in this thread already! :)

Roo

EDIT: PS Phil: don't go there :D

dave_mc

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« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2008, 04:26:33 PM »
long post coming up, sorry...

Quote from: MDV
And legra are incredible guitars, Bob is an extremely talented individual. Theres no comparison with caparison (based, as with dave, on the one of each I've played).


wow, try saying that fast ("comparison with a caparison"). :lol:

agreed though. And i liked (just thought it was too dear for what it was) the caparison i tried.

Quote from: MDV
Your opinion is duly noted, but its not going to have any bearing whatsoever on whether or not I, for one, choose to talk about custom and production guitars in the same breath. Its perfectly appropriate.


agreed.

price IS the main thing, though. that's the point. People say "such and such a guitar is great" and what's implied is "for the cash".

like, for example, a yamaha pacifica is generally considered to be a good guitar, because it's a decent guitar for not much cash. if it cost the same as a tom anderson, would people be rushing to buy them?

it's the same with everything, it's how good it is for the cash. "for the cash", whether said or not, is normally implied.
Quote from: noodleplugerine
There are going to be plenty of production guitars out there which match what a custom builder can make, and if you're in a shop and find that one - Don't let anyone tell you about how shallow production guitars are compared to their custom superiors.

That's all I'm trying to say - I guess I didn't really make my point clear.

It just annoys me this whole, "You have £1500? I don't even know why you would consider anything other than a Feline/Legra/Wez etc". Yes you are going to have quality guaranteed, but if you find a production guitar which is well built then why does it matter ><

And now I stop :p


you're missing the point. I expect more than "well-built" from a £1500 guitar. Sorry.

I haven't tried every guitar out there; far from it.

However, from what I've tried, the only guitars I've tried which even come close to my legra were a tyler HSS super strat (at £2700- and that was for a bolt-on... at the time i got my quote for my legra, i could have had a similar-spec legra for about £900-£1000, with BKPs), and a nik huber at about £3500. Ridiculous prices, in other words, when you can get a custom for a lot less, which is exactly what you want.

Oh, and some patrick eggles. but they don't make those any more (at least as well as they made the 90s ones).

I'm well aware that there's a wait involved, and it's not easy to wait that long. But having done it, i'm convinced that I wouldn't spend more than about £600 on a production instrument... any more, and you're not a million miles off a custom (especially if that production instrument needs upgraded pickups etc.), and I just plain haven't tried a production instrument around the prices of a custom which comes anywhere close...

we aren't saying that a custom is as good as a well-built production line guitar. we're saying it's miles better. for less money. and it's exactly to your spec. the only downsides are the wait, and the fact that you have to buy something you haven't tried. obviously if those are enough to put you off, that's fair enough.

And I'm certainly not trying to say that Lew shouldn't have got a caparison. i didn't even mention it in this thread till someone else brought it up. he (as is everyone else) is entitled to buy what he likes. Just like we're entitled to our opinions. FWIW, as i already said, I liked the caparison I tried.

PS- mark plays mainly modern metal. I don't play only metal, but i certainly am not only playing srv licks (though i do that too). my legra was specced as a "metal" guitar. as was mark's, i think.

WezV

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« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2008, 05:00:43 PM »
perfection is a funny thing, some people will find it in production guitars and good for them - they can go and buy a guitar of the shelf and not have teh painfull waits

Roo says he isnt happy with anything so needs to go custom - i dare say when he has that special guitar which suits him much better it may not suit a lot of other players

so yeah, i wouldnt say go custom because its going to be perfect or hundreds of times better quality than any factory guitar- go custom because you want something that is individually shaped to fit you ... starting from the initial wood selection right down to the final set-up

I make guitars by hand, not by computer controlled robots and i am not going to claim perfection

to quote tom anderson (who actually use CNC  to roughly copy hand carved 'imperfect' neck contours)

Quote
*in the pursuit of perfect hand-sanding and finishing, numbers are accurately approximate


i love that term 'accurately approximate' -  :D

noodleplugerine

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« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2008, 05:52:15 PM »
Quote from: dave_mc

we aren't saying that a custom is as good as a well-built production line guitar. we're saying it's miles better. for less money. and it's exactly to your spec. the only downsides are the wait, and the fact that you have to buy something you haven't tried. obviously if those are enough to put you off, that's fair enough.


Here's where we disagree. I've played a fair share of custom built guitars, and they have all been pretty damn good, and I have played plenty of production guitars, some have been bad, some have been good, and some have been superb. The superb ones for me easily competed with the custom built guitars I've played.

And for less money? Again debatable. I've played 80s Charvels, and a couple of Ibanez/ESP axes which totally outplayed anything I've ever touched since.

None of these are particularly expensive axes, and none of them are much higher than the cheapest customs you'd find.

In my eyes, there is no argument whether to go for a Custom or a Production guitar, its totally your choice.

Only if you do go for a Production guitar, make sure you get a good one.
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TwilightOdyssey

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« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2008, 05:57:37 PM »
Threadnomancy is a dark art and should not be practiced!

Philly Q

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« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2008, 06:26:40 PM »
Quote from: Roobubba
But anyway, if I had £3000 pounds to spend on a guitar, I know what I'd do with it and I'm not telling you lot - look what happened in this thread already! :)

Roo

EDIT: PS Phil: don't go there :D

I won't.  :wink:


On custom vs production, I don't own any custom guitars so I'm not going to get into the argument over which is "better" (but surely it's impossible to generalise anyway, custom builders can't all be equally skilled).  I agree with Roo (I'll say that again, I agree with Roo  :lol: ) that the best reason for going custom is if you want something with a set of specs that's not available in any production instrument.

Quote from: dave_mc
price IS the main thing, though. that's the point. People say "such and such a guitar is great" and what's implied is "for the cash".

...we aren't saying that a custom is as good as a well-built production line guitar. we're saying it's miles better. for less money.

The value-for-money aspect is relative, though, surely.  Suppose your dream guitar, with the exact specs you want (whatever they may be, it doesn't matter) is going to cost you £2,000 as a custom build.

That will certainly be significantly cheaper than a similarly-spec'd Suhr, Tom Anderson, Tyler or Nik Huber, as you said.  On the other hand, it could be as much as, or more than, a similarly-spec'd PRS or Gibson - which makes the choice less simple (I know someone will come in now and say there are no good Gibsons or PRSs, but... whatever  :roll: ).  If you find a production guitar that ticks all your boxes, why not go for it?
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MDV

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« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2008, 06:46:49 PM »
Quote from: Lew
Quote from: MDV
Quote from: Lew
I dont want to be caught in the crossfire but agree with alot of what Noodle is trying to saying.

You have made your opinion on Caparison very well known and anyone wanting to know it or find out what you think about Caparison can use the search function.

As I said in the last thread you probably played a pre 06 non artist, and as I said then alot of your claims would be justified, also said, I imagine you would have a different opinion playing a new model.

Every post 06 Capa is assembled, painted, wired up and set up by the same guy and the QC is great. The body and neck are still CNC'd in the Lida factory.

Bottom line is, if your not a Metal guy, chances are your not going to get it.
These guitars are so niche toward the metal scene, they arent ment for SRV licks.


Oh, I fully accept, and have made explicit, the caveat to my opinion that its based on one guitar.

Your guesswork about that guitar (pre 06) is likely wrong, since it was in 08 and it was being sold as new. But nonetheless, its just one guitar. Its certain that, as a production instrument, there will be better quality models available (and I should hope so too! That one was terrible).

I also appreciate the desire to rationalise purchases we've made, both production and otherwise ;) (i.e. we're all very much more likely to think better of what we own than dont  :P ).

Anyway, I'm not going to be cornered into justifying my stance on this any further, and I wont be prevented from talking about caparisons, just because I have before, and I'm not going to not compare customs to production guitars. Its frankly stupid not to.

The discussion is open, all thoughts welcome, though.

Wouldnt be much of a discussion forum if we all thought the same things, now, would it  :wink:

Edit: oh, and, metal? Nah I wouldnt have any interest in that, its all just noise, innit, modern or otherwise ;)


You would not know what year the Capa was born unless you had the serial, your guess that it was post 06 is just as much guess work, unless it was Cranes where they sell a handfull of Capa's a week chances are that it was an older one.

FWIW I have no "desire" to justify anything, when I want a change of pace I sell my gear and buy something else, I dont have the space and only do amateur studio work so I personally can't justify having a host of guitars.

Im selling some gear now because I want to put some money Jonathans way as I have heard so much praise from this forum.

I didn't mean to make you feel cornered and you are right about forums and opinions.

R.E Metal, I can only assume from your signature your being sarcastic. 8)


Ok,

Just to note, I agree completely with dave. All what he says true, in my experience. I also cant disagree with the various statements by people that explain why they dont want to get a custom. Its all just whats right for you in the end on that one.

How likely is it that a guitar built in 06 or before took more than 18 months to make it to a shop for sale? Thats a very slow turnover and I'd have to question how they stay in business. Advertising and endorsments, I suppose. Passing off their best work to artists and sending the same/similar specs into produciton with lower quality standards (if any, given how bad the one I played was).

If the machinework of the guitar is still the same then it wont matter when it was mde, because that was the biggest problem with it. That and cr@ppy, unresonant woods.

I was suprised that the guitar was so bad, but I'm open to others being better: I even asked in the thread I made about it to see if there was a consensus that I got a bad egg. However, you've been 'defending' caparison against any negative experience of the guitars consistently. And you own one. It rather adds up, doesnt it? For the record I understand why youre doing it (you dont want to think the brand that makes your baby is sub-par or overrated) but its a bit of an affront to anyone thats made a different conclusion to brush away their experience (and there were several experiences in the thread I made that were very similar to mine) with the rather unlikely "oh, well that wasnt an artist model"

With regard to a comment in a previous post

Quote
As I said in the last thread you probably played a pre 06 non artist, and as I said then alot of your claims would be justified


I dont know why I didnt say anything about this before: Your on-paper, caparison-sales-pitch based 'justification' is so irrelevent its not even funny. The guitar in my hands at the time was cr@p, and you suggesting that it took nearly 2 years to get to the shop is a rationalisation. Most of all, though, my experience of it doesnt need to be 'justified' by aspects of the companies history. I can assess the quality of a guitar, thankyouverymuch.

I played a very bad guitar. It was made by Caparison. In all likelyhood it was made well after 2006 and It was shocking. Its not a personal affront to you, and you dont have to leap to the defense of the brand, nor attack any other.

In addition, yes, I am very into metal, and my legra (the MDV602: it, along with daves V, is on the custom page) is a metal guitar through and through, and I know how much of a fad and fashion accessory caparison are in the genre ;)

noodleplugerine

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« Reply #56 on: May 27, 2008, 06:51:55 PM »
Not sure its valid to say he's only defending them cos he owns one, he presumeably wouldn't have bought it if it was bad :p
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Antag

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« Reply #57 on: May 27, 2008, 07:03:08 PM »
Quote from: TwilightOdyssey
Threadnomancy is a dark art and should not be practiced!

:lol: +1

Slight threadjack, but it's a shame that the original author of this thread, Andy RV, doesn't post much anymore.  He recorded a kick-ass Nailbomb clip in players which some boy genius panned :roll: & doesn't seem to have posted much since... :(
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MDV

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« Reply #58 on: May 27, 2008, 07:05:44 PM »
Quote from: noodleplugerine
Not sure its valid to say he's only defending them cos he owns one, he presumeably wouldn't have bought it if it was bad :p


I think it is. Sure: it certainly means that, if he got to play the guitar before he got it, then he thinks thats a good guitar, and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt any day and say that, yes, Lews Deli (sounds like a take away!) is a good guitar.

Blanket defence of the brand after buying one, though, thats a different kettle of fish.

Something people need to get their heads around in this thread: we're dealing with a number of guitars (half of which in Daves post!) that you can count on one hand, and we havent all played all of them. To have an objective discussion that is a requisite. I might love caparison if I'd played Lews first, or I might hate them just as much, or Lew may be the guy that doesnt like them if he played the one I played.

Get it?

Every guitar is different.

nfe

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« Reply #59 on: May 27, 2008, 07:30:27 PM »
Quote from: MDV


How likely is it that a guitar built in 06 or before took more than 18 months to make it to a shop for sale? Thats a very slow turnover and I'd have to question how they stay in business. Advertising and endorsments, I suppose.


Just to dive in on one point, how likely is that? VERY.

I've worked in 5 guitar shops. One of which was the highest turn over instument shop in the UK (I believe) another is probably top ten, every shop I've worked in has had loads of guitars in them that stay on the wall for months and months and in many cases years, especially expensive instruments.

Though, incidentally, I played a few Caparisons in GuitarGuitar Glasgow a year or so ago and thought they were garbage, but hey... :lol: