BKP Juggernauts sounding flubby!

[sankalp10singam]

Hello everyone!

I just got a BKP juggernaut bridge installed on my Ibanez RG 1570Z prestige (basswood body, maple neck). Was really looking forward to this change. Unfortunately pretty disappointed with the results. The pick up which is famous for its clarity is sounding too flubby, saturated and lacks pick attack . I am getting way too much low end and it almost feels like the tone knob is off and sound is not very articulate.

On installation, the BKP pickup is a lot thicker (due to the longer pole screws), resulting in a higher height than normal. They are fairly close to the strings. I cant go any lower/deeper in the guitar as it is pretty much sitting at the bottom of the base plate. Thoughts? If anyone has faced a similar issue. I am after a modern metal tone, similar to periphery. I have attached a sound clip for reference.

First 10 seconds (Schecter blackjack, mahogany body and neck, duncan blackouts)
Last 10 seconds (Ibanez with BKP, basswood body maple neck)

You will clearly hear the blackouts have much more clarity, high end and pick attack. Both are recorded on the exact same tone. What was even more surprising is that the darker/denser mahogany was sounding brighter than the basswood. Even the output was much higher on the ibanez, was almost clipping with the same input gain levels.

If anyone can provide any guidance, would be much appreciated. Thanks again! Looking forward to getting the most out of this purchase. 

[Dave Sloven]

The inability to lower the pickup is probably a lot of the issue

You might have been better off with the Impulse set.

Can you exchange them?

The Impulse seems to differ from the Juggernaut in precisely the direction you seem to be wanting.  I think the pickup size of the Impulse is pretty normal.  From memory the issue with the Juggernaut arises from the alnico/ceramic triple magnet combo somehow.  That said I have other pickups with triple magnets (e.g., Black Hawk bridge) and the difference doesn't seem to be great on those.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_LG7_5AE8U

[sankalp10singam]

Thanks for replying mate! I can hear the same characteristic in your demo as well. It’s that low mid flubby growl which makes articulations unclear. Wonder why is there such a hype around the clarity of these pickups. IMO they are a bit too fat. Not sure if I can get them replaced, will have to figure out an amp sim that works for these.

[Dave Sloven]

That's not my demo but yeah that's what I was getting at.  It can work in certain guitars but what you hear in that demo is the basic difference in characteristics between those two pickups in the same guitar.

[Dave Sloven]

You might want to talk to someone about routing the bottom of your cavities a bit.  It might not need to be all the way across, just the legs.  Also check the screws, whether they can be cut down a bit.  One trick I did with a guitar I have with a shallow cavity was to drill a small hole below each adjustment screw, which ensures that the pickup can sit flat when all the way down.  If the pickup looks like it is tilting and you can feel it rocking that might help

[Dave Sloven]

Okay this is how I fixed the issue with my neck pickup cavity while removing minimal wood.  A friend cut me a humbucker size cavity the same depth as the original single coil cavity but it didn't have the side cavities for the humbucker legs.

If you look carefully here you can see how the neck pickup is tilting.  This is because the screws are bottoming out and then it pivoted on the screws.  If you look at the legs you will also notice a raised 'dimple' around the screw hole, I had to allow for this too.



This photo shows the neck pickup as low as it would go before I fixed it:



When I removed the pickguard I found these scratch marks:



Using a Tamiya Handy Drill and then the Handy Router I made these small holes that have a bit of clearance around the screw ends and allow the legs to sit flat on the bottom without removing too much wood.  They also centre the pickup nicely



This shows how I could drop the pickups below the pickguard after this mod:



I hope this helps and good luck. Remember that the Black Hawks are a blade pickup and have no pole screws, you might need to do the same under the double rows of pole screws too if it hits there.  But you should be able to gain some clearance without needing to take out much wood or have skills with a router. I am assuming that you have a decent thickness of wood under the pickups but don't drill too deep, cut the screws down a bit instead.

This is the tool I used.  It is very low powered, so no danger of burning anything or losing control.  I have the drill as well but I could have done all of it with just the router.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhB4TpiKSuU

[JimmyMoorby]

If you can lower the pickup then that will help.

The juggernaut bass is there but tight but it has huge low mids...so do the aftermath and black hawk so you might not like them anymore than the juggernaut.

Which Blackouts have you got?  I had the AHB-1 set and they had huge amounts of bass and low mids and they're the highest output pickups I've ever used.

I have no experience with the Impulse set but they could be the way to go.  Nolly is a big fan of the rebel yells so you could go there....very tight sounding and go extreme when boosted.  Rebell yells have a choppy bass, no low mids I can hear and the mids are very cutting and harmonic.....the high end is very present but far from shrill.  Some might say Rebel Yells are too thin in a super strat but I've seen plenty of people using them in super strats and they're happy with them.

Despite the description I think the Painkiller is more Judas Priest/Morbid Angel/Necrophagist than it is djent so i'd guess you wouldn't want to go for that sound.  It's like a Marshall tone taken to extremes.

[ericsabbath]

Despite the description I think the Painkiller is more Judas Priest/Morbid Angel/Necrophagist than it is djent so i'd guess you wouldn't want to go for that sound.  It's like a Marshall tone taken to extremes.

That's a pretty good description of the Painkiller

[ericsabbath]

If you can't solve the height issue and decide to try some other model, the Aftermath and Rebel Yell are great alternatives, since they have a leaner lower midrange and really tight bass, almost like they have a built-in tube screamer

I never played the Juggernaut, but from clips and comparisons with other BKP's I owned, I've always heard it has some sort of Mesa Rectifier thing in the low mids that some might find flubby
I tend to prefer the "Marshall type" pickups, if that makes any sense

[Dave Sloven]

Which Blackouts have you got?  I had the AHB-1 set and they had huge amounts of bass and low mids and they're the highest output pickups I've ever used.

I have no experience with the Impulse set but they could be the way to go.

I had the AHB-1 set in my Schecter C-1 Blackjack ATX and the change when I converted it to passive (all BKP components) with the alnico Black Hawk set was massive.  The Blackouts really didn't get along with my Peavey JSX and V30s cab, they made them sound dark, compressed, and lifeless compared to my Stiletto with the other alnico Black Hawk set, so much so that all of my bandmates immediately commented on it.  I would be surprised if the Juggernauts sounded worse than those.  I think the problem is that they just can't be lowered enough to hear their best voice until something is done to get them down lower, perhaps what I did with my Stiletto as detailed above.

I don't have any experience of the Impulse set besides listening to clips but that's about to change as I bought one of the last available sets here at dealers in Australia here today!  If they are a more controlled version of the Black Hawk that should be perfect for my SG.

[JimmyMoorby]

Which Blackouts have you got?  I had the AHB-1 set and they had huge amounts of bass and low mids and they're the highest output pickups I've ever used.

I have no experience with the Impulse set but they could be the way to go.

I had the AHB-1 set in my Schecter C-1 Blackjack ATX and the change when I converted it to passive (all BKP components) with the alnico Black Hawk set was massive.  The Blackouts really didn't get along with my Peavey JSX and V30s cab, they made them sound dark, compressed, and lifeless compared to my Stiletto with the other alnico Black Hawk set, so much so that all of my bandmates immediately commented on it.  I would be surprised if the Juggernauts sounded worse than those.  I think the problem is that they just can't be lowered enough to hear their best voice until something is done to get them down lower, perhaps what I did with my Stiletto as detailed above.

I don't have any experience of the Impulse set besides listening to clips but that's about to change as I bought one of the last available sets here at dealers in Australia here today!  If they are a more controlled version of the Black Hawk that should be perfect for my SG.

I only went with the AHB-1 set because at the time I wanted the highest output pickup I knew of and thought they would work best.  I was using an 2nd blue amp channel on a 5150iii which has too low preamp gain for metal riffs (IMO) and just wanted to push it as much as I could....in the end I just played everything on the 3rd channel with some BKP's and that worked out better....then the 5150 iii died for the 3rd time and got a Victory Kraken which is way better.

I'd try the Juggernaut again in a super strat it just isn't a good fit with Gibsons in my experience.  Having said that I think I'd just go with an Aftermath set again in a super strat!

[one]

I use juggs in my 7string 27' guitar together with a evh 5150III channel red and it's a perfect combo for me, playing any kind of extreme metal in my band. No flub

[Dave Sloven]

I think he just can't get them to sit low enough for the proper height. Any pickup will sound bad if you have it up too high or too low

[Yellowjacket]

I installed a Juggernaut set in my Ibanez RG7421.  The bridge pickup is really thick so the pickup cavities needed to be routed down 1/4 of an inch.
You will need the bridge pickup cavity routed down for the pickup to fit.  I think the Juggernaut will still be rounder and warmer sounding than the blackouts, but as you get the pickup height optimized, you'll begin to hear the articulation and pick attack.

Questions:  What pickup are you replacing?  Was the guitar equipped with active pickups before?  It could be that you need to replace the pots and caps to ones of the correct values.  (Misha uses a push pull tone pot so he can remove the tone control out of the circuit)

RE: Juggernauts:  They are warm sounding pickups with a lot of weight in the low mids.  They work best with very bright sounding guitars that lack low end, like my RG.  To really optimize the tone of my setup, I ended up getting the factory plastic nut replaced with a TUSQ XL Nut.  Then I replaced the stock FP bridge with a hipshot one.  The hipshot bridge and the tusq nut really helped with attack and articulation.  It's shockingly good now!! 

I have a 6 string jugg set in my Godin Redline III which is a warmer guitar.
The pickups were very dark and wide sounding in that guitar.  I replaced the stock korean LFR with a Schaller and a custom brass block.  BIG change.  But the guitar is still a bit dark.
My next mods will be the volume pot, which I will replace with a 1meg pot.  I am also replacing the stock locking nut -which is a cr@ppy pot metal thing- with a GotoH FRG-2.  This should also help with highs and harmonics.

I'd say juggs are phenomenal pickups but they are quite specific in their application.

[Dave Sloven]

I installed a Juggernaut set in my Ibanez RG7421.  The bridge pickup is really thick so the pickup cavities needed to be routed down 1/4 of an inch.
You will need the bridge pickup cavity routed down for the pickup to fit.  I think the Juggernaut will still be rounder and warmer sounding than the blackouts, but as you get the pickup height optimized, you'll begin to hear the articulation and pick attack.

Questions:  What pickup are you replacing?  Was the guitar equipped with active pickups before?  It could be that you need to replace the pots and caps to ones of the correct values.  (Misha uses a push pull tone pot so he can remove the tone control out of the circuit)

RE: Juggernauts:  They are warm sounding pickups with a lot of weight in the low mids.  They work best with very bright sounding guitars that lack low end, like my RG.  To really optimize the tone of my setup, I ended up getting the factory plastic nut replaced with a TUSQ XL Nut.  Then I replaced the stock FP bridge with a hipshot one.  The hipshot bridge and the tusq nut really helped with attack and articulation.  It's shockingly good now!! 

I have a 6 string jugg set in my Godin Redline III which is a warmer guitar.
The pickups were very dark and wide sounding in that guitar.  I replaced the stock korean LFR with a Schaller and a custom brass block.  BIG change.  But the guitar is still a bit dark.
My next mods will be the volume pot, which I will replace with a 1meg pot.  I am also replacing the stock locking nut -which is a cr@ppy pot metal thing- with a GotoH FRG-2.  This should also help with highs and harmonics.

I'd say juggs are phenomenal pickups but they are quite specific in their application.

I replaced the awful locking nut on my Schecter Stiletto 6-FR with a Gotoh FGR-2, and the munted licensed FR with a Gotoh GE1996T (with brass block).  I really appreciated the clarity, but while brass does bring in some highs and harmonics it also brings in some lows, so it will just be a matter of experimentation.  I am installing the same combo into my Schecter C-1 Blackjack SLS FR-S, together with a Black Hawk in the bridge slot (keeping the Sustainiac in the neck).  It currently has the Korean FR 1000 tremolo (that a previous owner has damaged the knife edges of, so it doesn't return to pitch without a lot of pulling up) and a Seymour Duncan Full Shred pickup.