Polymath... and prices

[timmy_pix]

So the Polymath is out, and going from the description and the EQ-graph on the website, it looks to be almost a Black Dog "Plus"? I'd be curious if Nolly waded in here at some point to offer insight on how it compares to the rest of the range.

I've got Black Dogs in a 7-string and I love the voice, but sometimes wish they were a little hotter so I didn't have to boost them all the time, so these sound like a great solution to me. My BDs are chrome covered, and cost me just over £300 3 years ago, which was pushing it for a set of pickups in my view. I just specced up a set of Polymaths to the same spec out of curiosity - just over £400! I get that a chunk of that is artist/signature pickup premium, but still - who's paying that much for guitar pickups?

I love all my BKPs very much - I'm on 9 sets now! - and they're my first choice for any replacement pickups, but this is getting silly, surely? I know it's a little unfair to compare BKP, a company with several employees, a good website and an obvious marketing budget to some of the smaller one- or two-man boutique alternatives in the UK, but when their pickups are quite literally half the price for equal quality, I'm struggling to justify BKP anymore. Which frustrates me, as I'd love to have more!

I can't blame BKP, really - people are clearly still prepared to pay these prices, and I'm sure Brexit/pandemic/nickel shortage are contributing factors, but at what point does "because we can" become detrimental to customers? £250-£300, pricey but worth it if you never have to buy another set of pickups for that guitar again. But £350 to £400?

Anyway, massive opinionated tangent aside, which I hope will spark some discussion; Polymaths sound great and I look forward to picking up a used set one day.

[Dave Sloven]

There's no way I could justify paying that for pickups.

It says £299 for basic black open coil.  Then there's the postage to Australia, so it's nearly AU$600 for just pickups, not including pots or caps.

[Kotsos81]

Fully agree. The prices right now are beyond silly and, clearly, as much as I like BK pickups, I cannot justify buying a set anymore. I understand that there are reasons which justify, in some extent, a price increase, but that much of a price growth makes the products not attractive anymore for me. Of course, any company is free to define its selling prices, and clearly the demand is still high, despite the ridiculous (IMHO) pricing. So, regarding me, I will rely on alternatives - thank God there are plenty of excellent pickup makers out there that ask half if the price or less. I didn't expect that to happen, since I was obviously ok with paying somewhat more for a better product, but that is just too much. And I know that this view on the subject is shared nowadays among several guitar players - especially non-professionals. Anyway, it is what it is. Maybe BKP prices will drop closer to normal levels in the future, who knows.

[b.gandt]

Affordability aside, I get it.  Everything from the price of a pint to toilet paper and guitar amps is up.

I know that there are really cheap winders in the States, although after years of hearing guitarists talk smack on  other guitar forums I can't trust that they are any good.  Actually, the small winder I preferred prior to BKP is in the same general price range as BKP, although BKP's price increase for the regular line of humbuckers well exceeded this particular winder.  Curiously, they had similar increases in singles.

The good news is that I think the Boot Camps are still competitive.  Also, the price of a 30 day pass for light rail here in Phoenix is down.

[andrewt]

I’m really interested in this pickup for the bridge position in my 25.5” scale guitar given the specs and particularly the EQ curve. I was also looking at the True Grit humbucker, but the Polymath may be a bit smoother in the highs, which appeals to me.

Have to wait for some standard demos where they strum clean chords etc. These really polished demos where they are playing to backing tracks doesn’t help me to hear the pickup.

As someone who lost full time work in 2018, and only working casually since then I hear and feel the argument about price. Prices on everything seems to be increasing faster as people and companies either strive to keep up their profits, or make as much as they can while they can. It can’t last as society will implode as more and more adopt this strategy.

[Dave Sloven]

Well it seems that Seymour Duncan have just jacked up their prices.  The issue seems to be the cost of materials like copper wire.

The supply restrictions arising out of covid are really starting to bite.  Old stocks of this stuff have now been depleted and the new prices that pickup manufacturers are paying for these materials has increased significantly, in large part due to increased transport costs

[Nolly]

Hey! Firstly, it’s a huge honour to have created a set with Tim and I really hope those that get hold of Polymaths will love them as much as I do!

To answer about how the Polymaths relate to the Black Dog, there aren’t really many points of comparison - it’s a different wire gauge, different wind/offset and a different magnet (the Polymaths are the first BKPs to feature an unoriented A5 magnet, also known as isotropic, and this gives a noticeably different feel and tone when compared to standard anisotropic A5). Also, the neck Polymath is an unusual design that combines two wire gauges. In practical terms though, the Polymath bridge is less twangy, has much thicker mids and has a squishier but still tight low end when compared to the Black Dog, with more output. The neck pickups don’t really compare since the BD neck is within the PAF-y realm and the Polymath is a much more modern “tubular” sounding pickup with - again - more of a squish on the attack.
I can’t really comment on the pricing, but note the Polymath is in line with the other signature humbuckers, and features a black powder coated baseplate as standard - this would be a bespoke option and would come at an additional cost normally.

[Telerocker]

All the signature sets start at 299. So in this respect it's a logical pricetag. And Dave is right. Prices for raw quality materials have increased, as have the costs of logistics due to the effect of the pandemic: closed harbours, shortage of containers. Containerprices have gone skyhigh the last months.

[andrewt]

Hey! Firstly, it’s a huge honour to have created a set with Tim and I really hope those that get hold of Polymaths will love them as much as I do!

To answer about how the Polymaths relate to the Black Dog, there aren’t really many points of comparison - it’s a different wire gauge, different wind/offset and a different magnet (the Polymaths are the first BKPs to feature an unoriented A5 magnet, also known as isotropic, and this gives a noticeably different feel and tone when compared to standard anisotropic A5). Also, the neck Polymath is an unusual design that combines two wire gauges. In practical terms though, the Polymath bridge is less twangy, has much thicker mids and has a squishier but still tight low end when compared to the Black Dog, with more output. The neck pickups don’t really compare since the BD neck is within the PAF-y realm and the Polymath is a much more modern “tubular” sounding pickup with - again - more of a squish on the attack.
I can’t really comment on the pricing, but note the Polymath is in line with the other signature humbuckers, and features a black powder coated baseplate as standard - this would be a bespoke option and would come at an additional cost normally.

Thanks for the tone description Nolly.

I’m trying to decide between the True Grit humbucker and the Polymath for my bridge position, so your comments will be really helpful in trying to decide between them.

[Dave Sloven]

Out of the pickups I have owned the closest tonal comparison I could come to was the alnico Black Hawk bridge and Black Hawk neck.  Maybe not as hot though.

This set doesn't seem to be similar to any of the others I have had.

[Nolly]

Thanks for the tone description Nolly.

I’m trying to decide between the True Grit humbucker and the Polymath for my bridge position, so your comments will be really helpful in trying to decide between them.

Obviously I'm biased in preference between the two, but the True Grit is more of a hot-rodded classic pickup with an appropriate upper mid focus, where the Polymath is all about very broad midrange, squishy attack and harmonic richness.

Out of the pickups I have owned the closest tonal comparison I could come to was the alnico Black Hawk bridge and Black Hawk neck.  Maybe not as hot though.

This set doesn't seem to be similar to any of the others I have had.

I definitely wouldn't draw that comparison myself, the sound and feel you get from the blade pickups is very different to a traditional humbucker design. The Polymaths are unique in the range due to the magnet. In fact I don't know of any pickup manufacturer apart from Throbak and Zhangbucker that uses isotropic Alnico V. Both pickups have a different wind approach than any other pickups in the BKP range, with the neck being particularly out there with its two different wire gauges.

For what it's worth, during the design process I auditioned dozens and dozens of pickups from BKP, major manufacturers, tiny boutique winders etc. There are some amazing pickups out there, but I haven't come across anything with the same combination of qualities as the Polymath.

[Dave Sloven]

Well the humbuckers I have had are:

ceramic Black Hawk (and neck)
Impulse (and neck)
alnico Nailbomb (and neck)
Cold Sweat (and neck)
alnico War Pig (and neck)
Emerald (and neck) - I installed and played this, but it belongs to a friend
True Grit (bridge only)
Miracle Man (bridge only)

Out of these I thought the alnico Black Hawk and the True Grit sounded the closest.

[Nolly]

Well the humbuckers I have had are:

ceramic Black Hawk (and neck)
Impulse (and neck)
alnico Nailbomb (and neck)
Cold Sweat (and neck)
alnico War Pig (and neck)
Emerald (and neck) - I installed and played this, but it belongs to a friend
True Grit (bridge only)
Miracle Man (bridge only)

Out of these I thought the alnico Black Hawk and the True Grit sounded the closest.

I think if you had the Polymath bridge there you’d find some common ground with the Nailbomb’s mid-forward voicing, but the top end, bottom end, dynamics/output and feel are all quite different.

[b.gandt]

Nolly, congrats on the pickup!  That's a pretty cool thing especially being BKP.  Also, funny you mention Zhangbucker.  That is the small winder in the States that I refer to above!

Anyway, the crunch tones for the bridge really have me intrigued.  I don't play the heavier styles, but that crunch sounds like it might be cool stuff for straight into my Plexi clone (Rockitt Retro 50) for a modern day interpretation of the Stooges' Raw Power, or whatever else I may want to cook up.

[kuipers_bob]

Congrats on the pickups Nolly! They sound fantastic in the video!
After years of using pretty much only ceramic pickups, I recently switched to the Seymour Duncan Pegasus (Alnico V) set in one of my prs 6 strings. It was a sweet change of sound I much needed. Any chance you know any SD pickups you could compare the Polymath to? In the first few months with new pickups it's always difficult to find some decent comparisons.