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Author Topic: KT88 Comprable To EL34?  (Read 20388 times)

deg0ey

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KT88 Comprable To EL34?
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2006, 11:42:05 PM »
Just in case you're interested in how much louder (all things equal) your 200 watt amp will be compared to my 50 watt or dave's 100 watt, the equation is as follows:

10 log (watts A/watts B)

You do the more powerful amp as A and the less powerful B...

So, your amp vs dave's would mean

10 log (200/100) = 10 log 2 = 10 x 0.3 = 3dB

Now, 3 dB is the smallest difference in volume the average human ear can detect, and then only if they are heard side by side - in a gig situation nobody would be able to tell you were louder than anyone else due to cab dynamics and different speakers. Just so you know, you could get a bigger increase in volume by just changing the speaker out for something more sensitive (is that the word?)

Okay, so in comparison to my Screamer (which is $%&#ing loud - never been past 6 on the volume) you would be:

10 log 4 = 6dB louder

This is a bigger volume difference, but still not even twice as loud as my amp. 5dB is a sort of volume difference that people might notice in a gig situation, when not necessarily at the same time they may think "ah, he's a bit louder than the guy before" but still not enough to make people think "wooooaaah that guy is loud!"

The point I'm trying to make here is that you shouldn't get the 200 watt amp because of its power, as it will really not make that much of a difference in any situation (except it will have higher headroom, and take much longer to reach breakup - usually a bad thing). You would be much better off picking your amp based on its tonal qualities rather than the fact it's 200 watts - if you prefer the tone of KT88s then get those, but if you would actually rather the sound of EL34s then that would be your better bet as the extra power translates to very little volume difference overall.

You'd be better off investing in a more efficient set of speakers and a decent cab if you want more physical volume :drink:

sidenote: Hey Ben, I'm doing my audiologist impression again - twice in as many days :lol:
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dave_mc

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KT88 Comprable To EL34?
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2006, 12:03:46 AM »
Quote from: Bainzy
[A pentode/triode switch works differently to halving the wattage; it reconfigures the tubes in an operation in triode mode that in real terms makes the amp a lot less wattage than half. Basically halving the wattage doesn't halve the level of sound output, but reconfiguring the tubes in triode operation will reduce the sound to about 60% of it's full volume level.


aye, that's what I was unsure about. In my manual it says the triode drops it to 60% of the wattage, but I think they mean "volume". though the genz benz el-diablo also says its pentode/triode switch halves the wattage. Garg, I dunno, and am willing to admit as much. It's noticeably quieter, and has a noticeably different tone too, which a half power switch wouldn't really do EDIT: i think.

:drink:

Tricalibur

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KT88 Comprable To EL34?
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2006, 12:34:13 AM »
yeh, ya'll are prob right then. 200 watts would realy be a waste of 400 more dollars unless I invest even more money into speakers/cabs. And If I ran a 200 watt amp with 8 EL34's it might be likely to catch fire on stage. And though this would make for an awesome stage show I dont think it would work out so well in the long run. :D
Ok, so basicly I have a question about speaker distortion / clipping or whatever you call it. If I ran a 120 watt head into two 4 x 12 cabs at full volume, what kind of speakers would I need to have in the cabs (Wattage-wise)in order to achieve speaker cistortion / clip without destroying my speakers. I understand what Bainsey said about amps being able to produce far more wattage than they are rated for. But I want to be able to drive the speakers hard while not running the risk of blowing one so what kind of speakers might be best for this sort of application? I was thinking maybe 25-30 watt greenbacks?
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deg0ey

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KT88 Comprable To EL34?
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2006, 12:36:01 AM »
Quote from: Tricalibur
unless I incest even more money into speakers/cabs


I'm praying to god that was a typo...
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Tricalibur

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KT88 Comprable To EL34?
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2006, 12:43:02 AM »
^ LOL I cant believe you caught that.  :lol: I changed it like a minute after I posted. This is terrible  8)
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HTH AMPS

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KT88 Comprable To EL34?
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2006, 12:45:32 AM »
If you're running a 120w head flat out into a pair of 4x12s loaded with G12H-30s then you'll be ok but they WILL eventually fail - you're running them hard and the voice coils will be smokin'  :lol:

If you want to reliably run an amp at that volume then it's gotta be V30s, but they won't breakup like the G12H-30s.  You gotta decide if you want the tone that bad that you're willing to shell out for speakers all the time.  

I personally got sick of blowing speakers and moved to V30s, you just need to change your EQ setting around and make the best of it.

 :twisted:

Tricalibur

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KT88 Comprable To EL34?
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2006, 12:48:41 AM »
How often did they go?
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Bainzy

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KT88 Comprable To EL34?
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2006, 12:26:30 PM »
Bear in mind that it's unlikely that you'll ever be running the amp at it's full wattage totally through the speakers. I don't think you'd need to run the amp flat out unless you were playing the Royal Albert Hall, and by the time you play venues that big you'll be using their PA systems so will need to turn down a bit. Although running heads putting out more wattage than cabs can handle is unsafe normally, if the head is attenuated it doesn't really matter.

I use G12M25's in a 4x12 with my Marshall 1959slp and I've never EVER blown a speaker. I've had it on full tilt a few times, but that's just those days when you know everyone in the street is at work and your curious to see how loud the amp actually goes  :wink:

The G12M25's can realistically probably handle up to 30 watts before they start to discombobulate, and most 100w amps tend not to go higher than 120 watts. The ones that do go higher are the ones with really high plate voltage and/or ones that are overbiased.

dave_mc

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KT88 Comprable To EL34?
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2006, 01:09:30 PM »
Quote from: deg0ey
Quote from: Tricalibur
unless I incest even more money into speakers/cabs


I'm praying to god that was a typo...


 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

HJM

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KT88 Comprable To EL34?
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2006, 05:27:30 PM »
Roll on Heritage G12-65...should be the ultimate 80s marshall tone speaker!
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dave_mc

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KT88 Comprable To EL34?
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2006, 05:30:32 PM »
^ are they out yet?

Tricalibur

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KT88 Comprable To EL34?
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2006, 06:39:30 PM »
Quote from: Bainzy
Bear in mind that it's unlikely that you'll ever be running the amp at it's full wattage totally through the speakers. I don't think you'd need to run the amp flat out unless you were playing the Royal Albert Hall, and by the time you play venues that big you'll be using their PA systems so will need to turn down a bit. Although running heads putting out more wattage than cabs can handle is unsafe normally, if the head is attenuated it doesn't really matter.

I use G12M25's in a 4x12 with my Marshall 1959slp and I've never EVER blown a speaker. I've had it on full tilt a few times, but that's just those days when you know everyone in the street is at work and your curious to see how loud the amp actually goes  :wink:

The G12M25's can realistically probably handle up to 30 watts before they start to discombobulate, and most 100w amps tend not to go higher than 120 watts. The ones that do go higher are the ones with really high plate voltage and/or ones that are overbiased.

Thats all true but I want to be able to get speaker distortion in addition to power amp dist when running the amp un-attenuated at full volume. I know I would prob never be able to do this in a live situation, but Im gonna record with it on weekends. I'm trying to get the most distortion out of a vintage style amp as I can. So tha basicly means im gonna turn the power amp all the way up, crank the 'Fuzz' / Drive control all the way and then run the amp itself straight into 2 4x12's. And I might use a treble booster or something in front of the amp for that extra bite.
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HJM

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KT88 Comprable To EL34?
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2006, 07:24:12 PM »
Quote from: dave_mc
^ are they out yet?


Not yet - Celestion UK are being really cr@p at delivering of late.
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Davey

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KT88 Comprable To EL34?
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2006, 08:04:16 PM »
can i have a pair of those?

dave_mc

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KT88 Comprable To EL34?
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2006, 11:04:36 PM »
Quote from: HJM
Quote from: dave_mc
^ are they out yet?


Not yet - Celestion UK are being really cr@p at delivering of late.


ok, cool. Thanks hayden. And they'd be good for 80's rock/metal, yeah? I'm assuming the price'll be around £80-£90 (at least, that's roughly what the other heritage ones are), and they're UK made?

:drink: