VHII and Holy Diver (and Crawlers and Abraxas!)

[robyogi]

Hi all.  I've been thinking about buying one of a couple BKPs for the bridge of a Floyded, 25.5" scale, alder-bodied, bolt-on maple neck/RW fingerboard guitar.  I've listened to some clips, watched TO's youtube vids, read the reviews, and still had a few questions...

I've been looking for something that's hotter than vintage but not screaming (e.g., the Miracle Man sounds way too hot for me), has organic/woody midrange, a flat EQ (no peaks or valleys), tight lows, and round (not piercing) highs.  It should have good presence or "sparkle" and excellent responsiveness and note clarity as well.  I'm not sure ceramic magnets will have the warmth I want, so I've been thinking of these two.

VHII - I like the clarity and semi-vintage vibe but it sounds a little high-midrangey to my ears, especially in TO's vid.  Any feedback on the EQ?  How about the low end?  Tight, vintage, other?  How well does it clean up?  

Holy Diver - I like the clarity and low-mid push in TO's video, but haven't heard or read anything on the forum about its lead voice...vintage or modern, warm or sharp, etc.?  Does it clean up well?  16K seems like a high DC resistance...

Any others that you can think of that would really meet my needs?  

Thanks in advance.

[JamesHealey]

i use the vh2, after trying a lot of pickups ive come to the conclusion it fits my bill. It does have an extra push in the mids, but thats where the pickup cooks. To me it sounds like its burning in the mids, they really scream when you want them to and clean up pretty well it drives pretty hard for only 9k dc..

[Davey]

i think you wont have any problem with that high end sparkle and presence with ANY BKP humbucker. asimetric windings FTW!

i only got experience with the high resistance ones (esp the warpig :D) i played some at the LGS.. but i personaly would go for a VHII

[Trendkiller]

Hi.
I use both types.
I guess I would go for the RebelYells. These are great for Floyd-eq guitars as well. I use a set in my Jackson King V Korina, and I will NEVER change these for something else in that guitar. I'm VERY pleased (made the old Duncan JB's sound dull and flat by comaprison).
The R.Y. is fat, warm and clear. Still maintain a vintage vibe.
The VHII 's are also great, You're right back to old VH. But for heavier rock to metal, You "might" wish for a bit more drive.
If You use high gain amps, You might not.

Good luck!

[TwilightOdyssey]

No time now. Will post later. :)

[TwilightOdyssey]

Hi there!

First off, thank you for watching my vids on youtube! :)

The guitar you are describing is similar to one of mine - alder body, OFR, maple neck.

I think you should go for the VHII. The vids you saw show my Strat, which is hard ash/maple/maple -- much brighter than alder/maple/rosewood!! The alder will darken up the tone a lot, and won't have as much upper midrange push as mine. Also, you need to take into account the EQ settings that I prefer on my amp.

Depending on your amp, the Holy Diver will not really clean up ... it will strive to push your amp into overdrive no matter what. The VHII will play clean.

If you're looking for a hot PA type of tone, there are really two choices:

For more of a 70s hard rock tone, the Riff Raff.
For a NWOBHM, EVH, or 'Stratty' type of sound, the VHII.

Hope this helps!

[Trendkiller]

Hi.
It's a matter of taste. The VHII's sounds killer in one of my LP's, and I would not change these for anything else. It nails the old VH tone, AC/DC, old ZZ-Top etc. A killer pick-up for classic rock.
But; I would go for the R.Y.'s with a Floyd eq. guitar vs the VHII's.
The Floyd do rob some tone to start with, You get a bit less bass, and it give the guitar a brighter tone vs a non-trem guitar, or vs an old Fender trem.
Then I think the "fatter" tone of the R.Y. helps to compensate on this.
Then again, it depends on taste. Some like the mother, some like the daugher.....or something. 8)  

[robyogi]

Wow - thanks everyone for the quick and insightful replies.  That's all very helpful info.  

It's funny the Rebel Yell should come up.  That was another that was on my list.  My list was pretty long to start with.  The descriptions on the main site are all impressionistic - and tempting - and the clips are still incomplete...but half the fun is reading and listening to see what might work.  Anyway, I started off considering all the vintage hot pickups (VHII, Emerald, Black Dogs, Abraxas) and then added the Holy Diver after listening to TO's clip.

Tim and I had exchanged emails a couple of times but I thought I'd also get the forum's opinion.  After emailing Tim I had the impression that the Rebel Yell and Emerald might be too bright for the sound I am looking for in a 25.5" scale guitar.  The shorter scale mahogany guitars tend to be darker and have that softer attack.  If I had an LP or Gibson scale guitar, I'd probably go with the RY's.  From his descriptions, the Black Dog and Emerald also sounded a little too bright for this type of guitar.  And with TO's feedback above, it sounds like the Holy Diver is out.  

That leaves me with the VHII and possibly the Abraxas.  There don't seem to be many descriptions or clips of the Abraxas, and Tim's suggestion was more toward the VHII, so that's the direction I was leaning.  But now that I read the description again, and Tim's feedback that it's the hottest of the vintage hots, with a broad mid EQ and less high end than the Emerald, I'm kind of curious about the Abraxas as well!  

So, now I'm wondering - does anyone have any experience with the Abraxas?  Can anyone compare it to the VHII?  

BTW, my amp is a Koch Twintone, so I have a lead and clean chanel.  It's got a ton of gain, so I'm not too worried about the pickup pushing it.  I'm more worried about whether the pickup can handle the gain (or as many vintage styles seem to do, turn to mush on the low end under high gain).  Also, whether or not it can clean up is important.    

Thanks again guys.

[deg0ey]

Depending on your amp, the Holy Diver will not really clean up ...

I would be inclined to disagree with that...I play clean with mine quite a lot, and it sounds really nice.

I will agree with you that it loves its overdrive, however, and trying to tame it is not an easy thing to do...I've found my gain knob seeing a lot of turning anti clockwise of late to try and calm it down some. Buuuut, I've never tried to get it to do something and have it struggle.

Admittedly, you said "Depending on your amp" and it may be that my amp is more suited to the pickup? :drink:

[PhilKing]

The Abraxas will give you a more compressed midrangy sound.  I prefer the Riff Raff and Black Dog on my Les Pauls, however at LGS, Tim had a set on a neck through guitar and they sounded really nice.  I like the VHII on my PRS, but I also like the Rebel Yells - though they are in an all mahogany guitar.  I have the holy diver with trilogies in a swamp ash body with maple/ebony neck.  I like the sound but it does push the amp, the RY cleans up more but is brighter.

I think the pickup that would suit your tones and guitar best is the Crawler.  I have one in an alder bodied PRS EG (with 2 BKP 90's), and it sounds great, it cleans up well but can drive for days if you want it to, without ever getting harsh.  It has a great sound on chord work and then can step up for lead too.

[TwilightOdyssey]

Admittedly, you said "Depending on your amp" and it may be that my amp is more suited to the pickup? :drink:

Your amp's clean setting has less gain than mine.
Hence, the amp has a lot to play in the factor of whether a high output pickup will overdrive it or not.

[robyogi]

The Abraxas will give you a more compressed midrangy sound.  I prefer the Riff Raff and Black Dog on my Les Pauls, however at LGS, Tim had a set on a neck through guitar and they sounded really nice.  I like the VHII on my PRS, but I also like the Rebel Yells - though they are in an all mahogany guitar.  I have the holy diver with trilogies in a swamp ash body with maple/ebony neck.  I like the sound but it does push the amp, the RY cleans up more but is brighter.

I think the pickup that would suit your tones and guitar best is the Crawler.  I have one in an alder bodied PRS EG (with 2 BKP 90's), and it sounds great, it cleans up well but can drive for days if you want it to, without ever getting harsh.  It has a great sound on chord work and then can step up for lead too.

Thanks for the advice.  Somehow I had totally overlooked the Crawler.  The clips sound pretty good.  They're definitely the most melodic pickup testing clips I've heard!  So how would you compare the VHII to the Crawler?  (This comparison process is getting complicated!)  

My guess is VHII with 42 gauge wire and lower resistance is more vintage, brighter, looser, and has more "air."  Maybe crunchier.  Crawler with 43 and high DC res. is tighter, hotter, louder, darker, maybe smoother, maybe warmer.  Just trying to figure this all out...am I close?

Which of the two has better definition to your ears?  Which would you say is more versatile for a variety of styles?

Also, I see a couple folks are in the US.  What's the best way to buy in the US?  Direct or a dealer?  Thanks again to all.

[deg0ey]

Admittedly, you said "Depending on your amp" and it may be that my amp is more suited to the pickup? :drink:

Your amp's clean setting has less gain than mine.
Hence, the amp has a lot to play in the factor of whether a high output pickup will overdrive it or not.

Ah, this makes sense :)

[March]

I had  a  set of Crawlers in one of my PRS's for a while, I found them a little too dark for my tastes so took them out and replaced them with, ironically, a set of VHII's.

Having said that, the Crawlers have a warmer, more saturated tone than the VHII's and you can use the volume pot to good effect with them, they clean up nicely. Personally I think the Abraxas pickups sound like a Mule +. They sound like a hotter version of the Mule, not quite as saturated as the Crawler's - but close. A great pickup.

However, the VHII's are my favourite BKP pickup so far. Despite the lower output, they can get down right gnarly when needed, I love the thump you get from the bass frequencies with these. The midrange is perfect for me. Not too thick and but enough complexity and dynamic response throughout the range to create a very articulate pickup. I use them in a PRS and a Fender Strat and appreciate how they don't drive an amp like a higher output pickup but shape the tone instead. For my style of playing these pickups have become my first choice.

[Eric]

Good info, March.

I really like the posts by people that have played multiple pickups in the same guitar. Really helps out a lot.