Pickup advice

[nbroberts]

Hi guys,

Bit of advice - what a surprise!!

I want to replace the burstbuckers on my '04 Les Paul but I don't really know what with.....

I play through a Marshall TSL122 and a Barber Direct Drive. The band I play in play a mixture of old rock (Thin Lizzy, Zep, Sabbath etc) and slightly more mordern stuff (Smashing Pumpkins, Nirvana etc).

I like my sound to be full but defined with a tight bottom end and a certain amount of that almost indefinable 'air'. I also like the bass end to have some  mid range 'hair' on it does that make sense?? Also I back off the volume control to clean up the sound when required

What I don't like about the BB's is that they are too harsh in the treble don't seem to have enough mid-range grunt and the bass is just muffled and not well defined.

I was thinking of either Mules or the Geoff Whitehorn but now of course the Rebel Yells are around!!!

Any ideas guys??

TIA

Nigel

[Fourth Feline]

I would vote for the Mules as they are very defined yet sweet sounding, especially in the treble.

In a Les Paul, They have put the sweetness back in my treble, the cream back in my mid range ( but still note for note articulate ) - and removed the wool from my bass strings.

I suspect someone is going to mention the 'Black Dogs' though. As someone else quoted ( and Tim agreed ) " The Mules kick but  the Dogs bite".

   :D

[Twinfan]

Agreed - Mules would fit the bill.  The Rebel Yells have a more treble focus (to my ears based on clips in this forum), and the Mules more midrange (I have one in a Gordon Smith).  The Crawler is a more modern sound I think, so that may suit you better for some tracks, but for classic Lizzy it would have to be a Mule.

How about a set of Emeralds?  A bit hotter and thicker than a Mule?

[Muso]

Rebel Yell baby YEA!

[Philly Q]

I only installed my Rebel Yell last week so I can't claim to have explored its full potential, but from your description I think you might like it a lot.  However, I'm not sure it's the ideal choice to actually replicate those Lizzy/Zeppelin/Sabbath tones (IF that's what you want to do).

It has the tight bottom end you mentioned (in fact, it seems to be impossible to get it to mush out, even with the tone control on zero!) and it's bright but BIG sounding, with a very distinctive (but hard-to-describe) character; I'd call it a "punchy" sound - it seems to respond really fast to pick attack so every note has a lot of definition and presence.  It's a great sound (and a good contrast to my Abraxas neck pickup), but not at all "vintage" to my ears.  I'd say it's a Modern Rock pickup, as opposed to a Classic Rock, Blues Rock or Metal pickup, if you see what I mean!

But maybe with the right amp settings you can get those classic rock tones - I'm no expert...

[FELINEGUITARS]

I'm almost stunned that some of the usual brigade haven't all staemed in insisting that a Nailbomb is the only choice
(I'm being a bit sarcastic here)

I too add my voice to the Mule being the best all rounder

[deg0ey]

and a good contrast to my Abraxas neck pickup

Do you have the RY and Abraxas in the same guitar? I was just considering that exact combo - If you could describe their qualities in terms the simple among us can understand I would be very grateful

Threadstarter - Sorry for the hijack :lol: :drink:

[carlaz]

I think in any case that it would fair to cateogrize the Abraxas as more of a "hot PAF" pup than the RY.  I wouldn't call the Crawler really that modern, regardless of what the web site says! :)  I'd through it in with the Abraxas as having a "classic, but more" vibe, while the RYs I've heard are, yeah, tighter'n'brighter, "hot modern" without sounding specifically metaaaaaal.

For what you're describing?  Mmm, tough.  I think, actually, perhaps not the Rebel Yells.  Mules, Crawlers, maybe Emeralds would be my bets.  I'm having a tough time zeroing down on it harder than that, though.

[Philly Q]

Do you have the RY and Abraxas in the same guitar? I was just considering that exact combo - If you could describe their qualities in terms the simple among us can understand I would be very grateful

Threadstarter - Sorry for the hijack :lol: :drink:

+1 on the hijack apology!

OK, bear in mind I have the RY/Abraxas combo in an all-mahogany Gibson The Paul, I've only had them a week, and so far I've only played them through a Pod XT.  So anyone else who has both pickups, feel free to say how totally wrong I am...

The RY is bright, tight and punchy as described above.  When you switch to the Abraxas you immediately notice more bass (partly because it's in the neck position, o'course), but output-wise it's a good match, which I was expecting because the RY bridge is round about the same power as the Abraxas and Crawler bridge pups.

The response to pick attack is completely different - with the RY there's an instant sort of *Kapow!* sound, with the Abraxas notes seem to swell after they're picked.  

The Abraxas has a much sweeter sound, but still hotter than vintage - "hot PAF", as Carlaz says.  It's warm but not woolly - the bass strings can sound a bit boomy, at least compared to the RY, but there's still a fair amount of sizzle in the mids and treble.  Brilliant if you like to solo on the neck pup with that kind of fluid, infinite-sustain kind of sound - a bit like a certain Mr C. Santana, in fact.

I think they make a really good combo, but I like a big, unsubtle change in tone between neck and bridge.  If you prefer a more refined combination, I should think it'd be better to go for a calibrated pair.

[deg0ey]

I think they make a really good combo, but I like a big, unsubtle change in tone between neck and bridge.  If you prefer a more refined combination, I should think it'd be better to go for a calibrated pair.

Well, my other considerations so far are a Mule or a MQ for the neck position, but I'm thinking the Abraxas now would be a better call as it's less distant from the RY output wise...How does it/do you think it would cope with solos in the range of GNR type stuff?

I basically want a set of Crawlers and a set of Rebel Yells, but I only have enough guitars for one of them and I'm trying to work out which would do a better job of covering the sounds of the other :lol:

[carlaz]

OK, bear in mind I have the RY/Abraxas combo in an all-mahogany Gibson The Paul [....] I think they make a really good combo, but I like a big, unsubtle change in tone between neck and bridge.  If you prefer a more refined combination, I should think it'd be better to go for a calibrated pair.

Just to clarify, this is the RY bridge paired with the Abraxas neck?  That sounds like it could be killer combo, actually -- very versatile.  (Though I'm still not ciento por ciento sure the RY bridge is best suited to what the good Mr. nbroberts was looking for.)

[carlaz]

Well, my other considerations so far are a Mule or a MQ for the neck position, but I'm thinking the Abraxas now would be a better call as it's less distant from the RY output wise...

I would tend to agree.  Also, I just think the Abraxas/Crawler neck pickup is awesome. 8)

How does it/do you think it would cope with solos in the range of GNR type stuff?

I think the Abraxas neck would smoke those bad boys.  Seriously.  Although the Abraxases are hotter than pups Slash actually tends to use, there's a lot of that smooth-sweet tone in Slash as well as in Santana, and the Abraxas neck really shines on that vibe.

I basically want a set of Crawlers and a set of Rebel Yells, but I only have enough guitars for one of them and I'm trying to work out which would do a better job of covering the sounds of the other :lol:

I share your pain ;) though I've already plunked for Crawlers and ain't gonna swap them out for RYs (though I expect the Crawlers suit my priorities better than the RYs).  

But it's a tough call.  You might best check with Tim, though my vote between the two would be ... Crawlers.  i think they would address your stated issues with he current pups "too harsh in the treble don't seem to have enough mid-range grunt and the bass is just muffled and not well defined" very well.  If the Abraxas bridge is straight "Mule+", then the Crawler bridge is that with a bit more mid-range grunt.  The treble is certainly not harsh, and though the bass won't be as clinically tight as on a ceramic metal pickup, it's a lot tighter than on the stock Gibson pups I had before.  I can down tune down and still hear individual strings even with Iommi-ish levels of gain (not extreme, but not negligible!).

EDIT: Scrounging back through the player clips, I found one I posted of my Crawlers a while back: http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2988.  The guitars, as someone observed, are a bit out of tune, but I put this down to the refreshing fermented beverages I imbibed whilst doing the recording :)).  I did it as kind of an Iommi riff-off, but somewhere on the second page of the thread, someone compares the tone of the lead (on the neck) favourably with Slash!  Not what I had in mind when I recorded it, but I can see what he meant.  (I'm sure Slash went out of tune occasionally, too .... ;))

[Philly Q]

I basically want a set of Crawlers and a set of Rebel Yells, but I only have enough guitars for one of them and I'm trying to work out which would do a better job of covering the sounds of the other :lol:

Yeah, so RY bridge + Crawler/Abraxas neck* should be a good in-between compromise.  :D

I think the Abraxas neck would handle GnR type stuff really well - it'll definitely give that sweet kind of tone Slash gets with his Alnico IIs, but with (I think) a touch more bass and a slightly more "modern" edge.  Which isn't to say the MQ or Mule wouldn't be equally good.

What type of guitar are you putting them in?  From my brief experience, if I had a maple-top LP or PRS I think the RY bridge might be a little too bright, and (for classic rock) I'd be tempted to go for the Crawlers.

(* EDIT Note to Carlaz: yes, that's the combo I've got!)

[Philly Q]

Nigel, sorry again for hijacking your thread!  :oops:

Hope all this stuff is of some interest/relevance.  It's not a million miles away from your original question.

Phil

[deg0ey]

Nigel, sorry again for hijacking your thread!  :oops:

Hope all this stuff is of some interest/relevance.  It's not a million miles away from your original question.

Phil

+1 :drink:

What type of guitar are you putting them in? From my brief experience, if I had a maple-top LP or PRS I think the RY bridge might be a little too bright, and (for classic rock) I'd be tempted to go for the Crawlers.

They'll be going in a mahogany & maple Legra that I'm getting when I get paid next - has a maple neck as well, so that'll add to the brightness of the RYs

But then I do like quite a bright tone, and play quite a bit of stuff in the style of Maiden as well, and wasn't sure whether the Crawler would really be what I'm after :lol: