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Author Topic: Engl invader  (Read 17657 times)

Davey

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Engl invader
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2006, 11:42:12 PM »
Quote from: Dakine

Dude,
learn to read.

I said it is getting CLOSE to a handwired boutique amp in price!

Sheesh. Engl do make nice tone machines but at the price, i.e. £1,500+ a handwired, non-pcb tube mount amp etc. is emminently poss.


oh.. my bad. you english people confuse me sometimes =P
here's some of the pics and i must say those cables concern me quite a bit.


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a27/michavan/Svg_TPot_001.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a27/michavan/Svg_TPot_002.jpg
http://www.msvonline.net/Engl_Biasing/Bias_003.jpg
http://www.msvonline.net/Engl_Biasing/Bias_004.jpg
http://www.msvonline.net/Engl_Biasing/Bias_008.jpg
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OD-Black_Fire

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Engl invader
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2006, 11:51:03 PM »
If it sounds good and works good, whats the problem?
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sambo

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Engl invader
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2006, 11:52:36 PM »
^thats what i was thinking.
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Dakine

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Engl invader
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2006, 11:54:06 PM »
Davey
look at it this way (remember I own an Engl, till I get money for it next month and it's gone anyway) and have looked inside.
It serves a purpose at , mostly, a good price.

Think of a ferrari and an Mitsubishi Evo. The Evo can hang with the ferrari round many roads, it aint built so well and costs less but gets the job done.

As for ribbon cables, I agree, the build is'nt as anal/meticulous as some higher price amps but, I worked offshore for over 13 years as an ROV (Remotely Operated Vehicle) Superintendant. These mini submarines are state of the art and cost over £1,000,000 for the sub alone, foget the titanium robotic arms, S.I.T. cameras etc., and they are full of ribbon cable. Why? cos it does the job and does it WELL. Out of all the electrical/electronic issues I ever had it was very rarely a ribbon cable.

The point is, to me anyway, Engl is getting dearer. For the SE/Invader price I think there are better made choices. Now thats not to say those choices sound better, they are just built better with better parts and more care/attention to detail.
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Davey

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Engl invader
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2006, 11:57:23 PM »
Quote from: OD-Black_Fire
If it sounds good and works good, whats the problem?


reliability issues. knowing that it's got cables, usualy used for disk data transfer, of inferior construction..
seriously, the voltages in an amp are prettydamn high. i wouldnt want one of those cables to melt and start touching another..

in europe it's not all bad, but in the US engls are reaching butique prices, with an inferior construction to splawn/bogner.

engls, for me are in the camp that sounds good, but i wouldnt use one.
and i'm pretty anal about the stuff i buy.
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Davey

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Engl invader
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2006, 12:03:30 AM »
Quote from: Dakine
The point is, to me anyway, Engl is getting dearer. For the SE/Invader price I think there are better made choices. Now thats not to say those choices sound better, they are just built better with better parts and more care/attention to detail.

exactly.

for the same price, for the most part ;)

as for ribbon cable. iwouldnt use it for anything that goes past a couple of mA and 50V MAX. and especialy not in the enviroment of a guitar amp, where currents, and voltages exceed a couple hundred mA and V respectively
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Dakine

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Engl invader
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2006, 12:14:36 AM »
I would'nt give a STUFF about voltages.

A byproduct of valves is HEAT, thats my concern if any.

The ROV's operated on topside voltage of 3,000 volts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMO there is nothing at all wrong with ribbon cable.

However, tubes directly on pcb boards, well guess where some heat dissipation goes? Which can impact the board,wiring and components.

As for Engl high cost in US. Well Mesa cost stupid money here. And right now the US exchange rate sucks in Europes favour.

They are built 'to price' plain and simple. They can be good value and good amps but the more complex they get the closer to a 'handwired' amp 'in price' they seem to get.
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MDV

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Engl invader
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2006, 12:18:06 AM »
This is interesting.

Now, if theres no problem with ribbon cable, etc...whats the problem?

You can get more anal about the build, but if its passed an acceptable reliablility cut off then it makes no difference...?

Plus, I can get an invader for 200 less than I can get a dual rectifier.

Name me an amp thats got similar capabilities at a similar price, and boutique hand wiring. SeriouslyL I'd love to know (I'm shopping for a super amp, dont ya know!).

I think unless bogner or diezel absolutely blow me away I wont be spending 2500 - 3000 on an amp (minus cab, at that!).

Currently I'm thinking:
Framus cobra
Hughes and kettner switchblade
Engl invader
Engl powerball
kock powertone

with a definate mission to try:
Uberschall
Shiva
xtc
Herbert
VH4

I think splawn are off the map: great reports but I get the impression they're a hot-rodded marshall, where I want a hot-rodded mesa  :twisted:  :twisted:  And far more importantly I'll never get to try one.

Unless I can get hold of the guy and say "I want an amp to sound like 'THIS', 'THIS' and 'THIS', how much"?
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Dakine

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Engl invader
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2006, 12:22:06 AM »
for frigs sake, I did'nt start this.
I still own an Engl and say ribbon cable etc. IMO is FINE.

Just IMO the Invader is getting costly is all, sheesh.

If ya want all the woops and whistles from my research the Invader is it, it is a very uncanny resemblence of a Diezel Herbert, but about £600 less.

But I would'nt drop that kinda cash without experience with one ;)
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Davey

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Engl invader
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2006, 12:24:33 AM »
well.. you can get those tube spacers for pcb mounted sockets, but you cant replace the cables.

no disrespect, but ribbon cables is the last thing i would use in an amp. regardless of those little toy submarine voltages ;) (though i realy do wonder how much of those 3kV actualy went through ribbon cables, purely from an engineering point of view)

just my opinion nothing more.. and i couldnt care less if you dont agree or if you like it or not.. like i said.. sound good, but i wouldnt get one.


Quote
Unless I can get hold of the guy and say "I want an amp to sound like 'THIS', 'THIS' and 'THIS', how much"?

if you have to ask, you cant afford it :lol:
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Dakine

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Engl invader
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2006, 12:37:21 AM »
Davey, 3,000 volts over bout a mile, but respect ya thoughts, just don't worry me as much as the heat.


MDV, whttabout this?

http://81.169.170.65/beyers/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=8_29_260&products_id=4000809&osCsid=ec83d377e9e76fde16c0d12e083d52ac

£300 more but totally handmade and lifetime gaurantee
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MDV

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Engl invader
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2006, 12:37:42 AM »
Quote from: Dakine
for frigs sake, I did'nt start this.
I still own an Engl and say ribbon cable etc. IMO is FINE.

Just IMO the Invader is getting costly is all, sheesh.

If ya want all the woops and whistles from my research the Invader is it, it is a very uncanny resemblence of a Diezel Herbert, but about £600 less.

But I would'nt drop that kinda cash without experience with one ;)


Chill mate.

I'm just looking for advice here. All welcome!!!

Sorry if I seemed argumentative, I'm saying that if there is better, then by all means show it to me and I'll look into it.

I didnt know the diezels were that cheap: I was under the impression they were up at 3000ish-£

I've heard diezels live (albeit though PAs) and the tone seemed well worth 2000 + cab to me.

Anyone know any prices?

And I can easily accept that something that costs less to make can be just as good if demostrated so. I dont want to pay for anal costruction if it doesnt actually give me any advantage.

And as I understand it engls are very reliable....never heard of a problem.

Davey: cute, but trust me, I can afford it ;) but is it worth it?
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Dakine

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Engl invader
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2006, 12:38:57 AM »
bud I have been talking to UK distributor, have all prices etc.
About to buy new amp myself :)
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MDV

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Engl invader
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2006, 12:39:06 AM »
Quote from: Dakine
Davey, 3,000 volts over bout a mile, but respect ya thoughts, just don't worry me as much as the heat.


MDV, whttabout this?

http://81.169.170.65/beyers/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=8_29_260&products_id=4000809&osCsid=ec83d377e9e76fde16c0d12e083d52ac

£300 more but totally handmade and lifetime gaurantee


Thanks man!

You anticipated the diezel price request admirably!
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Dakine

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Engl invader
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2006, 12:40:14 AM »
want the UK prices?
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