Author Topic: Speakers - Vintage 30, Classic Lead or G12H? (Read 30239 times)

_tom_ · « **Reply #30 on:** November 22, 2006, 05:05:13 PM »

How much extra volume does it give though? I allready have to attenuate when I want to practise at a sensible level, dont want to really attenuate even more if possible.

mikeluke · « **Reply #31 on:** November 22, 2006, 07:36:57 PM »

I would have to say about 20% more - at least to my ears - it is LOUD!

_tom_ · « **Reply #32 on:** November 22, 2006, 08:26:21 PM »

hmm, no good for me then, the current speaker has a 98.3db sensitivity or something, so that will be tonnes louder :(

dave_mc · « **Reply #33 on:** November 22, 2006, 08:37:00 PM »

Quote from: _tom_

btw, when people say the V30 has a large mid spike, is that like having all the mid sliders on a graphic eq boosted? Because I hate that tone, it sounds too nasal and weird.

yeah, kinda. but i thought that's what you liked about the laney clip (and the wasp one)?

_tom_ · « **Reply #34 on:** November 22, 2006, 08:41:16 PM »

No, they dont exactly sound honky or nasal to me (nothing like it does when I change the EQ as said), but I do like the tone. I think I just worry too much :lol:

I guess like I said earlier I could at least try the V30 in the top first and if its too trebbly for that position, stick it in the bottom or something (sounds dirty :lol: )

dave_mc · « **Reply #35 on:** November 22, 2006, 08:47:58 PM »

I guess, the thing that might make me tell you to stay away from v30's is that

(a) they're loud

(b) they're aggressive.

From what I read from your posts, that's kind of the opposite of what you want. Or am I wrong?

(nice work in mentioning pro guitar, though, I'd forgotten about that place! I'm checking out the speaker clips now!)

_tom_ · « **Reply #36 on:** November 22, 2006, 08:52:44 PM »

According to Celestion, V30s have the same db sensitivity as G12H which would make them the same volume, or does the actual wattage rating of the speaker also play a part in overall volume?

Dont get me wrong, I like an agressive sound (I know Slash uses V30s in his cabs and I love his tone) but I'm wondering if its too agressive for a Laney to be able to do something a bit smoother. Then again Marshalls are also bright amps are they not? I hate this :lol:

dave_mc · « **Reply #37 on:** November 22, 2006, 09:00:49 PM »

v30's are funny. they're very aggressive but the mid spike makes them kind of smooth too, if you know what I mean. problem is, there are too many variables to be able to tell for definite.

For example, i'm running an engl savage se with 6l6's (which are quite rough and aggressive sounding, with scooped mids when they distort), but then I dial in my amp to somewhat compensate for that, normally in smooth mode as well, and then they hit the v30's.

There's a definite v30 characteristic I can hear whenever I hear soundclips, but it's kind of hard to tell how much is from the speaker, if you know what I mean.

grrr.

_tom_ · « **Reply #38 on:** November 22, 2006, 09:10:34 PM »

edit - just found out professional music tech sell Ashdown cabs, one of which has V30s. They also do the Marshall cabs with Greenbacks in. Thats according to their website anyway. Gonna have to go and try em!

BTW, does anyone know where I can get some grille cloth in this colour - http://www.matamp.co.uk/ROBSC7.htm

Matamp wont sell me it separately, and it looks really nice in a pic I've photoshopped it onto my cab in :(

mikeluke · « **Reply #39 on:** November 22, 2006, 09:52:35 PM »

I'd point you in the direction of the guy that I bought my speaker from but he appears to have gone out of business. He was really helpful and knew his stuff on speakers. At the time we had a conversation about V30s - personally he thought that they were over-rated since Celestion moved a lot of production to China.

_tom_ · « **Reply #40 on:** November 22, 2006, 10:07:54 PM »

Yeah I've heard that rumour aswell. On the Earcandy site they say this about the Eminence Governor -"We ship a lot of these, we have found these to really shine on what the vintage 30 used to do, a great Euro sound, a life saver since the 30 moved to china."

Also browsing the EarCandy Cabs site (they review Eminence speakers) and they say the Legend 121 "Is a extremely smooth delivery type of speaker."

So maybe its just the nature of the Laney to be very bright. I need to spend more time with it on Monday really to see what I want to do! Could always try different types of valves to see what that does but then it gets expensive..

gwEm · « **Reply #41 on:** November 23, 2006, 12:12:45 PM »

I actually just listened to the V30 clips on the Celestion site... I agree, they would appear rather dissapointing based on these clips alone - not really flattering of celestion.

I guess your confused by 100s of speaker choice at the moment _tom_ ;)

_tom_ · « **Reply #42 on:** November 23, 2006, 04:35:43 PM »

Yeah, theres just too many different varieties :lol:

jpfamps · « **Reply #43 on:** November 23, 2006, 05:46:07 PM »

Of the Celestion speakers made in China my favourite is the G12H which seems to have a wider frequency response. I also like the G12M Greenback, but this has a very middley sound without as much top or bottom as a G12H. This can be good in a bright amp, but is probably not what you are looking for. I don't especially like the V30, which can sound harsh in the wrong amp (or even in the right amp!). The G12-75 is fairly bland and in my opion not worth considering.

Many amp manufactures use the V30 because of its higher power rating, (you only need 1 in a 50 W combo and 2 in a 100 W). As Celestion will give a good bulk discount if you use the V30 in your entire amp range you can save even more money.

Regarding the power ratings, if you are using two speakers of the same impedance, then the power output of your amp will be shared equally between you speakers. The power rating of the speaker determines how much power the speaker voice coil can take before failing; it does not determine the "loudness" of the speaker (see below). Most speaker manufactures are quite conservative about their speaker ratings (probably to avoid many failures in use). Additionally most amp manufactures tend to exagerate the power output of their amps (more watts = more sales). There are many "50W" amps using 2 G12Hs, so I wouldn't worry about the power handling of a G12H in your cab.

The apparent loudness of a speaker is determined by its efficiency: a more efficient speaker will produce more accoustic power per watt input. This is always quote in dBs, probably because if it was quoted in percemtage terms you would be shocked. Efficient guitar speakers are in the region of 5% efficient, ie 95% of the energy going into them is wasted as heat. Hi-speakers, where linearity it more important than efficiency are often an order of magnitude or more less efficient than this.

To make a speaker more effcient you can do a number of things including: increasing the magnetic field in the voice coil, reducing the voice coil gap, making the cone and voice coil lighter. As many of these manoueuvres conflict with trying to make a speaker that can handle high power, it is often the case that lower powered speakers have much better efficiency.

Hope this is helpful. If you want to know more about speakers then there is some really good info on Ted Webers site:

http://www.webervst.com/sptalk.html
http://www.webervst.com/spterm.html

_tom_ · « **Reply #44 on:** November 23, 2006, 05:52:01 PM »

Thanks for that detailed reply! I may go with the G12H eventually, although I'm probably gonna experiment with some JJ preamp valves first. Apparently they're warmer/darker than most so should sound good in the Laney. The stock EL34's are TAD, no idea on peoples opinions of those really :P