Do all the high gain buckers use the special PAF components?

[Pierre]

I hear a lot of the kids out there who want BKPs because of the sound but can't afford them. Now a lot of these guys, heck and even myself, don't really care for the period correct PAF like components used. Is there any chances of seeing cheaper version of the pickups with modern, cheaper parts but the same coil designs?

[Antag]

I doubt it's the cost of the components used that makes BKPs the price they are, but rather the time taken by Tim & his magic elves to scatter wind them one by one....

[maliciousteve]

Using modern and cheaper parts wouldn't make a BKP a BKP. It just wouldn't sound the same. Sacrificing tone just so people could afford the pickups easier would be a bad move for Tim and the guys as they are known for handwound, top quality pickups.

If people want cheaper pickups then Seymour Duncan and Dimarzio sell plenty of cheap ones.

[gingataff]

You mean a 'BKP Designed' Made In Korea pickup? :?
The whole point of BKP is that the best quality parts are used/made. If they aren't they they're not BKPs.

[carlaz]

And something like a Miracle Man doesn't sound like an original PAF in any case!

The point about the cost of labour vs. parts, too, was well made.  Hand-winding something in Britain costs much more than hand-winding it in the third world. But when you're a small outfit concerning with keeping a tight rein on quality control, you can hardly outsource your production to some Chinese sweatshop!

As with all things in this world, ya gets what ya pays for!

[Bird]

As with all things in this world, ya gets what ya pays for!

+1  8)

[plastercaster]

having a cover not made to paf specification wouldnt make it any cheaper, if thats what you mean, and most other stuff would spoil the tone. I dont think Tim would use a part just because it was vintage correct if there was something else he could use.
something else better-sounding, by the way, not cheaper.

[FELINEGUITARS]

The other point is that Tim has reinvested huge sums of money to have parts made specially for BKP.
He wanted to
1) Get greater accuracy and consistency to the vintage design
2) Have a reliable and consistent source of parts

I would imagine the actual cost of the parts to manufacture isnt that much higher than any others made to the same exacting standards in the UK or USA or Western Europe, but the huge amount of money already invested to ensure the availability of those parts.

I also add what has previously been said about paying UK workers to skillfully hand-wind the pickups.

The pickups are worth it as they have a special quality to them

However if money is a more important factor - then the exchange on the dollar is nearly $2:£1

[Pierre]

Oh I perfectly get all these points. But as it's been said and part of my point was, those high gain pups aren't based on PAFs. So why make them painstakingly vintage specs? The kids who'll want those pickups won't really care about that. I can see why a lot of people would and it's obvious that this is part of their sound, but there is a huge share of the market that won't really care. It's true maybe it really wouldn't make a huge difference to the price though.
Indeed sourcing those parts must have been expensive and it's probably already too late since the investement is done but still... just wondering. I'm not saying they're not worth it, I tried one and it was a great pickup for sure but I wouldn't mind a cheaper version without the PAF specs components just to compare and see the price difference.

[indysmith]

but there is a huge share of the market that won't really care.

well that share of the market should steer clear of BKPs, which are a brand that make pickups for that share of the market that DO care. if they don't they should stick with their dimarzios and SDs who are catering more than adequately to tone peasants :P :twisted:

[carlaz]

Oh I perfectly get all these points. But as it's been said and part of my point was, those high gain pups aren't based on PAFs. So why make them painstakingly vintage specs?

I'm not sure the specs of the high gain pups are so much "painstakingly vintage" as they are of painstakingly high quality.  The point is that Tim & Co. have done a lot of work to find out how to build the pups with the tone they want, and that means getting the right components for the tone they want.  I don't think there's any desire by BKP to make an expensive pickup just for the hell of it!  I mean, that would just be silly ....

Ultimately, BKP make pups that they think will give the best tone, which means getting components that meet their standards, scatter-winding by hand, etc..  This sort of thing is not necessarily cheap, but then the goal isn't to build a cheap pickup, it's to build a great pickup.  We, the consuming public, then have a choice about whether or not we agree with BKP about how great their pickups are. :)

The kids who'll want those pickups won't really care about that. I can see why a lot of people would and it's obvious that this is part of their sound, but there is a huge share of the market that won't really care.

I dunno if the "vintage specs" are really a big deal to the majority of BKP customers.  At least, I can't say I ever thought about it.  Their web site talk a great deal about the care given to each part of the manufacturing process, and specifically notes how components differ depending on the type of pickup, but doesn't really seem to dwell on "vintage specs". Except for the pickups that specifically aim to reproduce tonality from within the range of actual "vintage pickups", the vintage spec thing doesn't seem like a big deal.  

But the quality thing is surely the biggest deal.  And so the question becomes: Which components can we start to cheapen without sacrificing quality?  And I don't know, 'cause I know relatively little about making pickups ....

But hey, if one wanted to figure that out, then at least pickup winding is not rocket science.  Anyone -- any kid, even -- can go out and find the info you need on the Internet or in books and then hunt down the materials to assemble and wind their own pickups.  Then we can use components as cheap or as expensive as we like!  For my part, though, I decided that route would ultimately cost me more than simply buying a set of BKPs .... ;)  

And if we just want massed produced pickups made from cheap components, well, lots of DiMarzio's only run about USD 60!  :lol:

[CJ]

However if money is a more important factor - then the exchange on the dollar is nearly $2:£1

actually not quite. a euro is worth about 1/4 more than a dollar.

[Peter Antal]

However if money is a more important factor - then the exchange on the dollar is nearly $2:£1

actually not quite. a euro is worth about 1/4 more than a dollar.

I think he meant Pound Sterling (£), not Euro (€).

[Tim]

Simple answer no..........I've no intention of producing a lower spec BKP ever.Tone is the main goal of a BKP, the fact that it's backed up by vintage correct components and build quality is an extra.What you pay for is a totally handwound and hand made pickup-even handmade parts in a lot of cases too.Also the quality and materials have a significant role in the tonal integrity of what we do-simply transfering the wind to cheaper components would have a detrimental impact on the tone of the pickups.It doesn't matter if it's a vintage voiced model or a hi gainer-the quality of materials play a part in achieving the tone.You pay for what you get.............the best pickups we can make.