Are there still really cr@p guitars on the market?

[hunter]

I mean, let's face it, low cost instruments are really getting better in quality. Think of what you can get for 200 Euro from Vintage or even more traditional brands.

Think what you got 15 years ago for that money. Or even worse, in the 70s, guitars with plastic parts all over the place and microphonic pickups and electronics that fell apart after 2 months.

Are there still real cr@p guitars on the market?
Post your links if you find one ...

[Davey]

yes there are.

the lowest ibanez line, apollo, SX guitars feel like toys (at least the ones in the 200$ range .. havent seen any higher priced ones)

[nfe]

I think there ae guitars that are absolutely cr@p for their price (pretty much anything that says Gibson on it for a start), but I don't think there are many unplayably bad guitars for sale in the UK these days.

[indysmith]

the market's getting more and more competitive, which is great - anything that's no good goes bust nowadays :D
Fender and Gibson seem to be slipping in their quality control - If they carry on down the route their taking, i'd like to say they'll be going bust too - but i seriously doubt it with such established names.

[FELINEGUITARS]

We find that we are busier than ever in our workshop doing setups and fret-dressing on fairly new guitars.

I think that the quality of what you get for your money has shot up over the years, but many do not leave the factory playing as well as they might.

It does seem that some shops that have in-store techs and workshop facilities often have then adjusted to make them more tempting to buy.

However there is a lot of buying online for best price from "box- shifters" who may give you the best price but the guitar is untouched from the factory.

Some folks spend some of the money that they save by buying online by paying for a decent set-up or a fretdress and set-up which can result in an excellant playing guitar - no matter what name it has on the headstock

[dave_mc]

From what i can tell from the short time I've been playing, the spec "on paper" seems to be improving, but this doesn't always translate to a better guitar, much like feline said.

I know when I started playing (around 2000?), you wouldn't have seen a guitar under about £800 with name-brand pickups stock on it. Now you can get guitars with duncans for under £300.

However, I think at least some of this is to sucker newer players into thinking they're getting a pro guitar ("it has duncans! wow!"), since you can clearly see the "Seymour Duncan" written on the pickup. You can't judge the quality of the wood in the guitar just as easily as that, especially if you're a less experienced player.

To be able to afford to give you quality hardware and electronics, they have to cut corners elsewhere- worse wood, worse quality control, etc., etc. They frequently give you name-brand pickups with cheapo pots and wiring, which is retarded.

That's not to say quality isn't improving- but it's maybe not improving just as much as it would appear.

I'm probably biased against big guitar companies, but there you go. Few of them have done anything to make me feel any different. Too many are willing to sell something on a false premise (the amount of amps which are claimed as "true class A!" only adds to that) to persuade me otherwise.

EDIT: back on topic, I've played plenty of guitars I wouldn't want to buy. Recently.

[FELINEGUITARS]

I know when I started playing (around 2000?), you wouldn't have seen a guitar under about £800 with name-brand pickups stock on it. Now you can get guitars with duncans for under £300.

You have to wonder where those pickups are being made

If said pickups would have a retail value of £150 here and you get a whole guitar with them for £300- either the pickup manufacturer is supplying manufacturer with USA made product for pennies (which I cant see) or  has found a way to manufacture them cheaper somehow or somewhere

[hunter]

Might be that manufacturers like Seymour Duncan make very low rates for guitar companies like ESP, Heritage ... just to have a positive image effect.

The margin might be really low on this supplier business, and therefore they print their brand name on the pickup and have more upgraders buy their brand ...

[Muzzzz]

Also, it might be worth mentioning that over the last couple of years, the popularity of the electric guitar has shot through the roof, giving us a huge wave of beginner guitarists, leading to a huge demand of cheap, beginner's guitars.

As a result, most guitar manufacturers and music shops are trying to provide for these beginners more than anyone else, so a good guitar is harder to find.

And I think that while low-end guitars are getting better, most of the high-end guitars are getting worse (ie, fender and gibson). I think this is largely because companies with bad reputations have to prove themselves worthy of being bought, whereas large reputable buisnesses can bludge off their name.

Rant over

[JamesHealey]

i think fender are miles infront of gibson in terms of quality control, i've never played a bad Deluxe USA strat or Tele.

theres always room for improvement for sure but they're pretty damn good.

[Twinfan]

I think there are bad guitars out there, yes.  I've seen and played bad examples of £300 Epiphones and £1000+ Gibsons.  Price does not always reflect quality.

What I've found in the last few years though is that you can get very good guitars for very reasonable money.  Two examples from my collection for you:

New Epiphone '65 SG.  Bought for £350 as my gigging guitar.  Fully pimped up with Riff Raffs, CTS pots, new nut and bridge etc.  Owes me £650ish.  The best SG I've played and heard so far, and I've tried everything up USA Standards at £900+.

Used Epiphone Casino.  Bought very recently for £425 including hard case.  2004 model, nicely played in, mint condition, had a pro setup and (I think) upgraded wiring.  Total Beatles vibe and very bluesy - it's hard to put down!

New or lightly used you can get cracking guitars for under £500 now.  For that amount of cash you could also squeeze in upgraded electrics if you're handy with a soldering iron (or willing to learn).  Guitarists have never had it so good.  I will add though, that I've played other examples of the above two gutars and none were as good as the ones I have (one '65 SG had a horrendously mis-matched body grain, sloppy paint finishing and a clubby feeling neck; one Casino had a broken selector switch, on-off pots and a rattling bridge).  You have to try several out until you find the one for you.

Now if only the amp world would do the same thing.  There's the odd steal (Epi Valve Juniors, Laney GH-Ls etc) but generally you gotta pay big bucks if you want something new that's "great".

[Philly Q]

i think fender are miles infront of gibson in terms of quality control, i've never played a bad Deluxe USA strat or Tele.

theres always room for improvement for sure but they're pretty damn good.

I agree.  Fender do all the things I normally do myself on a new guitar - fit Schaller straplocks, file the edges of the nut so they're not like razors, and actually adequately shield the body cavities!  All they need is a change of pickups.  

Having said that, whoever put together my American Ash Tele decided to re-drill the neck-mounting holes in the body and totally f*cked it up.  But I like to think of that as a one-off aberration by some idiot who had too much to drink the night before.  Hope he's been sacked by now.

[Davey]

However, I think at least some of this is to sucker newer players into thinking they're getting a pro guitar ("it has duncans! wow!"), since you can clearly see the "Seymour Duncan" written on the pickup. You can't judge the quality of the wood in the guitar just as easily as that, especially if you're a less experienced player.

ding ding ding ding ding, we have a winner!!!!


remind me to buy you a beer in london!

that is what most people think.. it has quality parts, but that doesnt mean it's a good guitar.. who knows what wood it's been made of, does it need a fret dress, or even re-crowning (low end epis and ibanez guitars especialy.. horrible horrible)
like i said, they look good on paper, but what's underneath the paint?
like the ongoing jacskon/ltd arguement.. ltd has all this name brand stuff, where jackson (only recently) got just name brand pickups.. and they're still a bit more expencive, so people go for ltd, cos they think they get more bang for the buck.. if you want real bang for the buck, buy used 80s'early 90's ibanezes, jacksons/charvels. that's where the gems are



i know for a fact that duncan tried to shift regular production models over to korea (where their duncan designed pups are being made), but cos people said they buy USA products, for the quality, cos who knows what quality the MIK will be, and that they would lose a lot of their customers, they (for now) left the production in the santa barbara facility.

for dimarzios, i wouldnt be surprised if they were already made overseas. i had a PAF pro in my hands the other day and the build was so flimsy.. it looked like it would break :P dunno.. maybe it was tinkered with, but the guy claimed it was new... but over in these parts you never know

[hunter]

i had a PAF pro in my hands the other day and the build was so flimsy.. it looked like it would break :P

How dare you even touch one ... you know that you can get the measles from pickups that aren't the one and only right make  :P

[Davey]

i had a PAF pro in my hands the other day and the build was so flimsy.. it looked like it would break :P

How dare you even touch one ... you know that you can get the measles from pickups that aren't the one and only right make  :P

LOL