Magnet types

[noodleplugerine]

Height, size and strength of a magnet also effects tone, I'm pretty sure, and the difference between pickups goes further than the type of magnet used and the number of coils.

[Iced Dragon]

alnico are diffrent metals

Alnico is short for Aluminum, Nickel and Cobalt, which are the main components.

[Kilby]

alnico are diffrent metals

Alnico is short for Aluminum, Nickel and Cobalt, which are the main components.

I know, I couldn't be arsed to list them (there where several threads running around at the time regarding magnets)

[antosimoni]

...
Alnico IV is probably the best vintage tone IMHO(for humbuckers) and along with II and III was used in the earliest PAFs-this is a fact and not myth as we've had them analysed and a collegue of mine has also seen original Gibson purchase orders that clearly state AIV bar stock being purchased.The tone of AIV is balanced and extremely organic, it produces the most authentic vintage tone and sits better in slightly hotter vintage winds than AII which tends to get very soft in the bass and highs if used incorrectly.
...

Tim, I always sponsor your products and I found 'em great but can you please give us some proof of that?
thanks a lot

[Tim]

Ask Gibson historian Walter Carter to look up the purchase orders for the mid to late '50s for magnet bar stock or ask Tom Holmes(ex Gibson) who's also seen the records which show Alnico IV bar stock being purchased during this period.
The X ray spectrograph analysis showed a 1959  PAF humbucker magnet as being Alnico IV-I don't think it's possible to attach the graphs here in the forum but I'll see if there's a way it can be done.

[Jazz Rock]

Really great post Tim... but what about Alnico 8?

I heard here and there that they are a good alternative to ceramic when you are looking for high output but a bit more "soul" if I may put it this way.

[ericsabbath]

Really great post Tim... but what about Alnico 8?

I heard here and there that they are a good alternative to ceramic when you are looking for high output but a bit more "soul" if I may put it this way.

they're great to bring life for pickups that lack mids
sounds a bit brighter than alnico 5 and darker than a ceramic
tons of mids, specially low mids, which gives a very modern feel for some pickups
pickups that are already too hot winded and that already have lot of low mids can get a bit muddy, so it may improve some pickups and screw others
but i bet Tim can make even a pickup with refrigerator magnet and wound with guitar strings sound clear and awesome :lol:

[5F6-A]

Height, size and strength of a magnet also effects tone, I'm pretty sure, and the difference between pickups goes further than the type of magnet used and the number of coils.

Absolutely. Type of wire, type of insulation, metal parts, alloyes, winding patterns... all those and more add to make pickups so unique.

[fps_dean]

...
Alnico IV is probably the best vintage tone IMHO(for humbuckers) and along with II and III was used in the earliest PAFs-this is a fact and not myth as we've had them analysed and a collegue of mine has also seen original Gibson purchase orders that clearly state AIV bar stock being purchased.The tone of AIV is balanced and extremely organic, it produces the most authentic vintage tone and sits better in slightly hotter vintage winds than AII which tends to get very soft in the bass and highs if used incorrectly.
...

Tim, I always sponsor your products and I found 'em great but can you please give us some proof of that?
thanks a lot

There is this website that mentions they used various Alnico magnets:

http://www.flyingvintage.com/gcmag/PAF.html

As is this one:

http://www.provide.net/~cfh/paf.html

I found another website once that went into great detail on the variations Gibson used and what to expect in each year and so forth.  If I can find it, I will post.

[ESPImperium]

Could you also post the diffrences between Ceramic magnet types, and the diffrent types of wire that are used in the making of a pickup as well as that would be really intresting to read.

[shaulin]

What about Alnico 8 & 9?
anyone got info about those?

I see Seymour Duncan are using the Alnico 8  on the SH-15

[EEF13]

when using a ceramic or alnico 8 (or any hot alnico pickups) pickup I use a Solid State amp for cleans and an a/b switch to a tube amp for overdrive distortion. when using other alnico pickups i play right through a tube amp.

[Will]

We use ceramic 8 as do most pickup makers

My new MM has ceramic IV I believe, or so it says on the spec thing. Any info about this type?

[ericsabbath]

I found this on metroamp forum:

"Actually, on the Alnico 8's, it quite the opposite. I learned about Alnico 8 from Lynn Collins several years ago.
They're an extremely sweet sounding magnet. Very sensitive, so they sustain for a very long time. You've got to lower them a bit further than Alnico 5, but once you find "the spot" there's nothing like 'em.
They're pretty expensive though, that's why I dropped them from my line of pickups.

Wolfe"

"I've used A8 fairly extensively and trust me, it's nothing like A5. It is much, much stronger, way more output, and has much more midrange, very full, while A5 tends to have a mid-scoop. The top end is a lot like A2, vintagey and sweet. Overall it combines the best qualities of ceramic, A2 and A5 without any of their weaknesses. To me, it's a very viable alternative to ceramics for a customer wanting a high-output pu with a naturally bright guitar who's sick of the harshness that ceramics sometimes have (depending on the wind and the guitar it goes in).

Its main weakness is the magnetic pull is very strong (maybe even stronger than ceramic) so you could never use it in a neck pu. You even have to back your bridge pu away from the strings a little more than normal because it will cut into the sustain just a touch. It has another semi-weakness in that the bass response is really huge -- not flabby, but not quite as tight as ceramic, at least to my ear -- but depending on the application, this is as likely to be a strength as a weakness.

I suppose you could degauss it a touch to tame it some, but it might lose some top end. I will try it at some point.

Another alternative is Alnico 6, but that's another story..."


"I'll throw out what I'm thinking.

Alnico 5 cast is 12,500 Gauss (flux) and 640 Oersteds (field intensity). The strength of the magnet is flux times field intensity. So the magnet strength is 8 million Gauss-Oersteds.

Alnico 8 cast is a lower 8,300 Gauss of flux, but is way up at 1650 Oerseteds of field intenisty. The magnet strength is 13.7 million Guass-Oersteds, or 71% stronger than Alnico V sintered, and 277% stronger than Alnico II sintered.

If the relationship between inductance/output and magnet/core strength given a stable dc resisttance were linear, a pickup with an alnico V magnet that - all else the same - gets a Alnico 8 magnet will have 71% more output. But I assume the relationship is not linear. I wonder what the relative relationship is."

"Certainly the A8 has a much stronger field. As mentioned above the field strength to output ratio is not linear though. In totally non scientific testing I would say your ear will hear a 10% to 15% output increase. You will also hear a fairly noticeable tone difference. More bite, no scooped mids and tighter bottom end. Somewhat like a ceramic but not harsh or ice picky."

[il˙ti]

Tim would disagree that A8 has none of the drawbacks of A5, A2 and ceramic. The thing is, BKPs with those standard magnets don't have the drawbacks that many other makers' pickups do. BKPs ceramic pups don't sound harsh and/or sterile, alnico 5 BKPs still sound tight and not scooped etc. There's a reason Tim chooses A5 and ceramic over A8 in the standard models. He has once said that A8 compresses the tone even more than ceramic and that sacrifices dynamics and organicness.