BKP's are based on what models?

[The Silverwulf]

Is that Cold Sweat review from somebody's website (Tony McKenzie???)?  There was a discussion about his comments somewhere here on the forum - might be hard to find, but the consensus (I think) was that he was talking out of his ar...  sorry, that nobody agreed with him.

Haha...thanks for the info. It may have been him, I'm honestly not sure. I was reading various reviews online and ran across that one.

[Philly Q]

The discussion I mentioned is in the thread below, if you're interested - starting near the bottom of the second page, then most of the third page:

http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5026&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=tony+mckenzie&start=0

[Elliot]

I've read that review - this was a guy who insisted on playing with a wah permanently set at full tilt and then had the nerve to talk about top end.  

In my view, if you play with a wah fully c--ked as your standard setup - only a MUD LLC pickup is going to not give you too much top end, so the review was pretty bogus to my mind.

[The Silverwulf]

Thanks for the link. I do agree with him in the respect that even though the pickups may be named after specific albums/songs, it can be a little difficult to discern exactly what type of sound they can provide. After reading the descriptions, some of them start blending together after a while... 8)

[Philly Q]

After reading the descriptions, some of them start blending together after a while... 8)

True, but exactly the same is true of Duncans, DiMarzios or whatever.  At least a name like "Black Dog" instantly brings the song - and guitar sound - to mind, whereas "Custom Custom" means absolutely nothing (which isn't meant as a criticism of SD, it's just a fact).

I've found that owning a few BKPs, and getting familiar with their sound, has made the "big picture" of how the other models compare a lot clearer in my mind.   And the same was true with DiMarzios and Duncans.

Having said that... now I'll probably buy an Emerald or something and it'll sound nothing like what I imagined.  

******

Going back to your original question about Jon Schaffer, he seems to have a hell of a lot of gear but in this article he mentions Black Dogs and Riff Raffs, surprisingly:

http://www.icedearth.com/news/051407.htm

[The Silverwulf]

True, but exactly the same is true of Duncans, DiMarzios or whatever.  At least a name like "Black Dog" instantly brings the song - and guitar sound - to mind, whereas "Custom Custom" means absolutely nothing (which isn't meant as a criticism of SD, it's just a fact).

I've found that owning a few BKPs, and getting familiar with their sound, has made the "big picture" of how the other models compare a lot clearer in my mind.   And the same was true with DiMarzios and Duncans.

Having said that... now I'll probably buy an Emerald or something and it'll sound nothing like what I imagined.  

That's true, but I think that most of the other pickups by this point have had been around long enough for people to compare and contrast among them and a good bit have multiple albums that were done with each for comparison. Although EMG 81 or Duncan JB might not be descriptive of what they sound like, you wouldn't have to look far to get countless opinions that describe their sound, find easy comparisons, as well multiples albums each was used on. Not so much for the BKP's since they don't have that long lasting history.

I don't think song/album names alone can give an accurate description because the amps on those records played more of a role than the pickups. Plug in Zakk's EMG 81 loaded Les Paul he used on Miracle Man/No Rest for the Wicked into a Mesa Dual Rectifier and it's a whole other world. Swap out the pickups into the same rig, and the tone would be different...but not as drastic as changing the amp.

The perfect example is that Tim just recommended the Painkiller to me for what I'm looking for, which is that old Metallica "Master of Puppets" or Iced Earth sort of sound. However, I don't perceive the album of that pickups namesake to be like those tones. If anything, I view the Painkiller album sound as a mid-range filled, honky sorta Marshall sound (which I like but wasn't what I wanted). So, I would have never expected to be recommended a pickup in that vein to achieve an almost scooped type metal sound...but I was... 8) So, I don't think the names are an accurate indicator of the overall sound of the pickup. I think it would be ideal to have some sort of tone comparison chart like Seymour Duncan has to compare the models. Now THAT would help a lot.

[Philly Q]

That's true, but I think that most of the other pickups by this point have had been around long enough for people to compare and contrast among them and a good bit have multiple albums that were done with each for comparison. Although EMG 81 or Duncan JB might not be descriptive of what they sound like, you wouldn't have to look far to get countless opinions that describe their sound, find easy comparisons, as well multiples albums each was used on. Not so much for the BKP's since they don't have that long lasting history.  

Absolutely, but as you've said yourself it's early doors for BKP, give 'em time   .  Maybe in 15 years people will be asking for a "Warpig tone" in studios around the world.

I think it would be idea to have some sort of tone comparison chart like Seymour Duncan has to compare the models. Now THAT would help a lot.

Tone charts are on their way, in the legendary website update!  :D

[The Silverwulf]

Yeah, give 'em time and people will know them a lot better. Tone charts will definitely be great when they arrive. I'm glad Tim pointed me to the Painkiller. By just using names and basic descriptions, it was honestly the last on my list! Time to reevaluate... 8)

[CJ]

i recently posted a couple clips with Miracle Mans in my V through a marshall if you want some kind of a reference tone.

[ericsabbath]

holy diver, painkiller and especially the nailbomb sound more like old metallica than the miracle man
metallica didn't use EMGs on MoP

[The Silverwulf]

holy diver, painkiller and especially the nailbomb sound more like old metallica than the miracle man
metallica didn't use EMGs on MoP

No, but they did on AJFA and the Black Album, as did Jon (Iced Earth) on Alive in Athens.

[Alex]

MOP was Hetfield's SeymourD Invader loaded guitar into the preamp of some Mesa Mark amp. That amp's preamp was slaved into a Marshall power amp.  Easy to recreate at home, obviously.
Then he recorded three rhythm tracks, one left, one right and one in the middle. Try copying that! ;-) BTW Kirk was not allowed to record any rhythm tracks. Hetfield probably considered him the noob in the band or whatever.

Flemming Rasmussen actually posted the amp settings on some forum as well as all the other recording equipment used.

IMO you really shouldn't bother too much about nailing Metallica's sound 1:1 (because you won't!). You'd need to play rhythms as tight as Hetfield and even if you don't like the band and their music, you still have to grant his rhythm chops are pretty awesome.

A Miracle Man will give you a good starting point for a sound similar to that of MOP. It would give you a good starting point for a lot of good sounds actually.

[Davey]

No, but they did on AJFA and the Black Album, as did Jon (Iced Earth) on Alive in Athens.

what 'live' in athens?  :roll:

the amp settings for all up to the black album are available on the net.. though black is the most complete.

kirk not playing rythm.. it's cos hetfield is lightyears ahead of him as far as rythm playing goes and it's easier for everyone that het plays everything 5 times, than to wait for kirk to record it 50 times.
as far as the tracks on each album go.. AJFA has WAY too many to list. try 5 different amps and a couple of different guitars. thus producing the thick sound (though the bass on that record is just ridiculous)

another example is maidens NotB. i got the classic albums documentary and basically the guitar tone sucks! untill they add the aditional takes. 2 adrian, 2 dave, one track of bass playing the rythm line, another bass track playing chords and bass harmonics on the easy stuff, like the Hallowed intro.
give to that any and all effects they used in the studio ... bla bla.
any record sound is pretty much impossible to recreate 100%

besides playing STYLE plays just as big a role as amp choice, or guitar choice. if you play real tight as oposed to 'sloppy' (bad comparison i dont mean ability but style.. if you understand)

... what am i onto here? bah. forgot .. anyway.. good luck in the pickup choice :P

[ericsabbath]

MOP was Hetfield's SeymourD Invader loaded guitar into the preamp of some Mesa Mark amp. That amp's preamp was slaved into a Marshall power amp.  Easy to recreate at home, obviously.
Then he recorded three rhythm tracks, one left, one right and one in the middle. Try copying that! ;-) BTW Kirk was not allowed to record any rhythm tracks. Hetfield probably considered him the noob in the band or whatever.

Flemming Rasmussen actually posted the amp settings on some forum as well as all the other recording equipment used.

IMO you really shouldn't bother too much about nailing Metallica's sound 1:1 (because you won't!). You'd need to play rhythms as tight as Hetfield and even if you don't like the band and their music, you still have to grant his rhythm chops are pretty awesome.

A Miracle Man will give you a good starting point for a sound similar to that of MOP. It would give you a good starting point for a lot of good sounds actually.

his white flying v copy didn't have an invader yet, at least not on the photos of that time
but the black one had a 500t, which is closer to painkiller
i still find nailbomb, painkiller and holy diver closer to that sound (in the right amp of course)
my ex-mesa rectifier liked the miracle man better than the holy diver, but in tighter amps or rawer distortion sources, the holy diver sounds a lot better than the miracle man (i've tried both in the same les paul)

[The Silverwulf]

MOP was Hetfield's SeymourD Invader loaded guitar into the preamp of some Mesa Mark amp. That amp's preamp was slaved into a Marshall power amp.  Easy to recreate at home, obviously.
Then he recorded three rhythm tracks, one left, one right and one in the middle. Try copying that! ;-) BTW Kirk was not allowed to record any rhythm tracks. Hetfield probably considered him the noob in the band or whatever.

Wow...lots of info. Where to start... 8) Anywho, I never stated that I wanted the "Master of Puppets" tone. What I said was that when I play, I like tones "ala Album X and Y". Those are nothing more than references to describe a sound because it's the easiest way to get a point across.

I actually spoke with Flemming prior to him posting those settings online. It was probably about a year prior. I'm the one who mentioned to that forum they should contact Flemming (who I knew didn't care sharing info because I spoke with him before), which resulted in him posting them.

Master of Puppets was Kirk's Mesa Mark IIC+ Head slaved into a couple JCM 800's they had at the time. There was actually 6 tracks of rhythm on there, not 3...and none were up the middle. There was 2 tracks of the main rhythm, 2 tracks of the countering rhythm, and 2 tracks of just the palm muted low E's in the song for extra chunk.

 It's common practice for one guitarist to record all of the rhythm tracks (in metal at least). The reason being is that there is little nuances in everyones playing that sets them apart, and it's a lot easier for one person to double himself than have someone else try to copy it. When we record, I (or the other guitarist) will track all of the rhythm, and usually quad track everything (4 tracks of rhythm).  

what 'live' in athens?

the amp settings for all up to the black album are available on the net.. though black is the most complete.

kirk not playing rythm.. it's cos hetfield is lightyears ahead of him as far as rythm playing goes and it's easier for everyone that het plays everything 5 times, than to wait for kirk to record it 50 times.
as far as the tracks on each album go.. AJFA has WAY too many to list. try 5 different amps and a couple of different guitars. thus producing the thick sound (though the bass on that record is just ridiculous)

AJFA was pretty much the same as MOP, though this time they slaved the IIC+'s into a Mesa strategy 400 Power Amp instead of a Marshall. I think the only track that featured a different amp was "Shortest Straw", which was a Mesa Quad Preamp. There's various things like a JC-120 and an ADA MP-1 on places for cleans and leads, but the bulk of the album is just the IIC+. They were also using EMG's by this time.

And yeah...gotta love the "live feel" of Alive in Athens... 8)

his white flying v copy didn't have an invader yet, at least not on the photos of that time
but the black one had a 500t, which is closer to painkiller

Yeah, to my knowledge, Eric is right on this one. If I recall correctly, it was still the 500T at that time.

Anyway, thanks again for all the info guys!