Author Topic: Question about Valve amps from a valve-newbie (Matamp Q too) (Read 4378 times)

Roobubba · « **on:** August 07, 2007, 04:19:12 PM »

Hi all,

It's been a while since I've been on this forum - been greatly enjoying my Miracle Man pickups with a Randall RG200G3 combo amp.

I've never used a proper valve amp, and have some really basic and probably highly stupid questions.

I like an ultra-high gain sound (which I get with a Zoom effects unit in front of the Randall's clean channel with clean boost).
When you play through the gain channel of an all valve amp (without pedal), do you get a clean sound if you don't pluck the strings very hard?
I've been reading as much as I can find about Matamps. From what I understand, you probably need a distortion or overdrive pedal before the amp.
Would anyone be prepared to recommend a suitable amp or pedal to go with, eg Matamp GT1 (suitable for very loud hardcore music?).

Think Fear Factory style riffs, also I need plenty of overhead (as much as humanly possible, as I'm the only guitarist in the band, and our drummer plays LOUD!). I have MMs, and it's the tightness of these pickups that I love.

I'm becoming convinced that a big grown up valve amp would be the right way to go in the long-term, but I'm at this point very unclear about what sort of thing I should be looking for!

Many thanks if you've manged to read this far through my drivel :)

Roo

Woogie · « **Reply #1 on:** August 07, 2007, 06:34:48 PM »

There is nothing wrong with some solid state amps. They are very tight sometimes which is why peope like Dimebag use them. If you want a high gain valve amp like you said you should probably be looking at Peavey 5150's, Engl's etc etc

Roobubba · « **Reply #2 on:** August 07, 2007, 06:53:00 PM »

I've heard people mentioning 5150s, What's the low-down on the new range of those? 6505, is it? Better to try to get a second hand 5150, or are the new ones any good?

It's going to be a while before I can afford one, and aside from a couple of reliability issues, I'm very happy with the sound my Randall is making (it's pretty new!, I'm just wonering whether to try to get my money back!)

Thanks for the advice

Roo

dave_mc · « **Reply #3 on:** August 07, 2007, 07:33:37 PM »

the sound will only clean up on a valve amp with lighter picking if it's not too high gain to begin with... you can normally clean up from a classic rock level of dirt... i doubt it with modern metal tones...

noodleplugerine · « **Reply #4 on:** August 07, 2007, 07:42:09 PM »

Quote from: Roobubba

I've heard people mentioning 5150s, What's the low-down on the new range of those? 6505, is it? Better to try to get a second hand 5150, or are the new ones any good?

It's going to be a while before I can afford one, and aside from a couple of reliability issues, I'm very happy with the sound my Randall is making (it's pretty new!, I'm just wonering whether to try to get my money back!)

Thanks for the advice

Roo

6505 and 5150 are essentially the same - Just different name, they had to change the name when EVH changed Endorsers, cos he owns the brand name of 5150.

With a 6505 there is no chance that you would need to use a boost - However the clean sound on the amp is much to be desired, while the Distortion is unbeaten.

HTH AMPS · « **Reply #5 on:** August 07, 2007, 08:43:20 PM »

Quote from: Roobubba

I've heard people mentioning 5150s, What's the low-down on the new range of those? 6505, is it? Better to try to get a second hand 5150, or are the new ones any good?

It's going to be a while before I can afford one, and aside from a couple of reliability issues, I'm very happy with the sound my Randall is making (it's pretty new!, I'm just wonering whether to try to get my money back!)

Thanks for the advice

Roo

The 6505 sounds noticeably diffenent to the 6505+ imo. When I first tried the 6505+ I fell in love with the sound, the 6505 does not have this sound (it's fizzier and looser in the bass end).

I've now got a 5150 mkII (same as 6505+) and couldn't be happier - it's a perfect high-gain metal amp. The clean/crunch channel on this amp is also more versatile than the 6505 as it can go cleaner.

On the subject of Matamps, I wouldn't buy one for metal - for doom it would be great though, just add a Big Muff and tune to B :lol:

As for the Randall, I really like 'em - it's a very specific sounding metal tone and one you either love or hate.

:twisted:

the_bleeding · « **Reply #6 on:** August 07, 2007, 09:24:20 PM »

to answer questions in order...

only low gain pickups will sound slightly clean when picked lighter. A matamp will sound nice and dirty with MM pickups due to their high gain and ceramic magnet which makes it break up faster.

the only differences between the 5150/6505 and 5150II/6505+ are the names and the paint on boxes they sit in. Other than that, they are IDENTICAL.

the +/II has these differences from the original: footswitchable chanels, adjustable bias, separate eq's, separate presence/resonance for each channel, brighter tone, better clean channel, lead channel has a bit less gain (but still has 6 gain stages), rhythm channel has WAY less gain (3 gain stages instead of 5)

the adjustable bias would explain the difference Heavier than Hell experienced in the low end of the original.

As for advice, its a fricken WICKED amp for metal and hardcore, but not great for anything else unless you want to mod it. However, it is super cheap when you buy it second hand. Most of my friends who've had them went through a love hate relationship with them and eventually dumped them for a powerball (for the better clean channel). Personally, i'd say go try one out.

Roobubba · « **Reply #7 on:** August 08, 2007, 04:13:23 PM »

Wow, thanks for all the responses!

Just wanted to clarify - I don't *want* the sound to clean up on lighter plucking, I was worried about that as a problem for my playing with a valve amp.

I do play a few cleans, so a decent clean channel is preferable, I guess there's no substitute for trying amps out in a shop, though...

Oh, I also have drop A tuning (AEADF#B), so whatever amp I go for *must* be able to cope with the big bassy sound.

What noise suppression systems to people use with their setups? I hate unwanted squeals!

Many thanks again,

Roo

Ted · « **Reply #8 on:** August 08, 2007, 04:35:28 PM »

Matamps are not really ultra high gain or for very fast / tight precise metal riffing.

There are amps out there far more capable of doing that sort of thing, but alas I am not too familiar with many.

When I feel like playing metal I use a big muff + TS + Boost to get some serious heavy tones with my King Street.

I also use Miracle Men in my Vee.

dave_mc · « **Reply #9 on:** August 08, 2007, 06:17:10 PM »

I use an ISP decimator.

HTH AMPS · « **Reply #10 on:** August 08, 2007, 10:04:34 PM »

I'd have to look at the schematics to be sure, but there are real and noticeable differences between the 5150mkII/6505+ and the 6505 (haven't played a 5150).

The main one is that the 5150mkII's clean channel is much cleaner. Second one is that the gain channel has an overall different tonality - the bass is much more defined and the gain is more focused. This is more of a difference than biasing can make, it's a change in the circuit.

:twisted:

Roobubba · « **Reply #11 on:** August 09, 2007, 02:56:27 PM »

That's really useful info, thanks.

One more question - getting a bit more technical now, after too many days at work reading about this (Ahhh I have GAS!)...

The bottom A string should be around 55 Hz. This is below the response frequency of every guitar speaker I've looked at so far.
I was thinking about making my own cabinet (prior to this little gas crisis). Would it be a sensible idea to put in, eg 2x (v30) and 2x (some other speaker which handles the lower frequencies better) to make a mixed 4x12 cab which had optimal response for the kind of sound I'm creating? Or is there a speaker out there which easily handles these very low frequencies, and if so what is it! :)

Cheers again!

Roo

EDIT Seems that G12K-100s might be pretty good for what I'm after, especially teamed up with either a Peavey 5150-II/6505+ or ENGL Powerball...

HTH AMPS · « **Reply #12 on:** August 09, 2007, 03:51:50 PM »

I wouldn't worry about speakers handling the low frequencies so long as you use high-powered speakers (i.e. no Greenbacks or vintage Jensens).

V30s, Classic Lead 80s and G12K-100s will all handle plenty of volume and give you the low-end grunt you want. If you're using a low A, then I'd be enclined to go with the G12K-100s for their massive power handling and extended bass end.

You can get 'em fairly cheap here... http://www.loudspeaker.co.uk

:twisted:

noodleplugerine · « **Reply #13 on:** August 09, 2007, 05:46:09 PM »

Quote from: Roobubba

EDIT Seems that G12K-100s might be pretty good for what I'm after, especially teamed up with either a Peavey 5150-II/6505+ or ENGL Powerball...

K-100s are _AWESOME_

Really nice dark sound - Played through some in a Diezel cabinet at LGS - Loved it.

Roobubba · « **Reply #14 on:** August 13, 2007, 10:42:46 PM »

Oops!

I accidentally bought a Peavey 5150 mark II...

Oh my word, it's great!!! I really, REALLY need an ISP Decimator to go with it, though, and probably could use some new valves, but it's sounding sooooooo good :)

Thanks for the help lads, I wasn't intending to buy this soon, but the opportunity arose :)

Roo