7 string down to F# or 8 String

[Hell Hound]

Some form of music use 8 stringed guitars extensivly, namely some experimental jazz and metal. The 8 strings permit the use of very low tuned groove (in the bass guitar territory, the bass generaly harmonising in the same range with the guitars) while keeping the high end for clean overlay and leads, Meshuggah is the perfect exemple of that.
Is that too many? Wasn't 4 strings enough when there only was luth? why the hell do we added those low strings? Irony assides you see the argument...

Wes: looks like we're copying each others ideas! First fanned, now 8s :p

Thats the problem though aint it - too many ideas and not enough time, or money for that matter!  I think i was going to do an 8 string though i would definately fan the frets, maybe 25 to 27" scale or something like that.

If you want to go really low I suggest far more then 27" scale on the bass side. 30" is the best for E to F tuning, 27" is fine for F# but not lower. (It's with resonnably thin string, it'll work with bigger string but it'll sound more like a bass)
I might start a straight 30" scale 8 string at the start of next year, I'm aiming for drop E tuning (EBEADGBE)

[Oli]

Extended range is a curious thing, I see two ways that it can be utilised: literally the extended range of the instrument, and also the percussive element of such low tuned strings- both are something i'd like to add to my playing.

Wes: i haven't quite decided yet on the scale(s) for my 8, i'm going to wait until i've finished my fanned 7 to see how that plays to decide. If it plays nicely, i'll probably do a little fan with a straight bridge- something like 25.75"-27", or 27"-28". If it doesn't feel quite right, the plan will be a 'regular' 27.5" scale, but i'll fiddle about working out a nice even string tension, so it feels nice to play :)

[WezV]

oh 28 should be just about fine for the low strings but it strikes me as a little long for the high strings, i just threw those numbers out there before, it just struck me as a nice move from normal guitar to baritone scales but i suppose 27 might be a bit short for the lowest strings.

I have tried out various scale lengths over the least few years between 24-28" with various different string gauges and tunings because the percieved tension/stiffness of the string is very important to me.  I know the ibanez has all the same scale but thats really because its a production guitars and fanning frets isnt always a viable option for a factory (although perfectly easy to do with a CNC machine cutting the fret slots).

i am sure that the people who buy the ibanez are happy but i do think it involves too much compromise in string tensions for me to ever be happy with that.

Hell hound - 30" on the bass strings sounds excellent but i dont think the high strings will have the right feel at that length.

oh and just for the sake of completeness i like 35" scale basses over the standard 34" - especially if its a 5 string.  The little extra brings extra clarity and punch to that awkward 5th string that i often find unusable on some factory made (top strung) basses

[Hell Hound]

at 30" the High strings are fine. basicly .008 tuned to E just sounds and feel like a regular guitar, it'e even better due to the added length, it's clearer.

[WezV]

yeah but its a 0.008 string - i hate those things   that would be the compromise i was talking about because i really dont like anything less than 10's, i can cope with 9's but snap 8's as soon as i look at them, and i think they would snap sooner being that bit tighter.... so for me at least, it would have to be fanned to use the strings i like

[OD-Black_Fire]

I reduced high E string breakage by playing lighter. The string is so thin an has so much treble that you don't need to pick the thing much at all to have a smooth sound.

[Hell Hound]

So just fan the fret 27"/30", that's what I considered once but decided against as it's limitation bridge choices. Khaler now makes 8, 9 and 10 strings trem, there's some fanned fret version as well. I suggest you head over http://www.sevenstring.org , they have an Extended Range Guitar forum over there with people knowing their shite :)

[WezV]

did i mention i am a really bad guitarist, i really struggle if i dont have a decent amount of metal under my fingers - but most of the guitarists who are better than me that i build stuff for are also unfond of 8's so i dont think i am on my own there.

i tend to build stuff so i can play it easily, if me being quite bad can play it easily then it usually works out better for the player who gets to keep it as well.

Making a fanned fret isnt really thats hard and seems to be the perfect answer for me in this situation, i can use the strings i like and keep the tension i like on the 6 strings and the extra two should be clear and resonant  with good tension as well.

I'm really gonna have to back this all up by making a fanned 8 string now i reckon , maybe an unfanned one as well so i can see if it is really as much of a compromise as i imagine:wink:

[Oli]

That's where we differ then Wes, i love using 8's on the top, i'll have thicker for the lower strings, but i like thin top strings for a bit of 'soloing' ;) I've been considering the other 8string option- having a high A instead of a low F#, but i think that'll have to wait until i get some spare money, which will be hard seeing as i'll be a student in a months time!

[WezV]

yeah i was considering doing 8 string the other way with an extra high string but i think that would confuse me more - i can cope with a normal 6 string with two extra on the bass side but i think i would be really lost having the normal 6 strings in the middle


maybe if i do get round to doing an 8 string i will have to try having 8's on it - i really think it will make me struggle but strings are (relatively) cheap!!

[Daemon Barbeque]

I am a 7 string player (MM 7 is sooo tasty) ,and my next guitar is going to be a custom 8!
I love the Low A ,and the High G...An 8 string with 27 frets is a key factor to
1)Being able to play anything on stage
2)Inspiration without end
3)The awesomness of the high G...sweet and present high notes without loosing Sustain!
4)Extreme creative Arpeggios and chorwork
5)The ultra-cool feeling of the wide ,powerfull neck!

I thought 7 string would be enough!But the search for the ultimate instrument never ends!

A MM 8 or Painkiller 8...That's my next purchase!

[gingataff]

Who needs 8 strings? Just get a 38incher like Allan. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1899558536914863101

[bucketshred]

I spoke to a 9 String player at LGS once (who was demoing on the Peavey stand) who thought that in the future, you wouldn't have a bass player, guitar player etc.  He theorised you'd just have two 9+ string players, one maybe playing a chord and tapping the bassline whilst the other plays another chord and taps the melody line or whatever. It's a good theory and I could imagine you could do some sub harmonic grooves and then some beautiful ethereal stuff too, especially with implied chords!

It'd never happen of course but I'd like to see it done well.

Andy!

[Roobubba]

It'd never happen of course but I'd like to see it done well.

Eek!  That's what our bassist said when he suggested a 13-8 track with 7-8 every fourth bar. Foolish, foolish boy :D

Roo

[Hell Hound]

I spoke to a 9 String player at LGS once (who was demoing on the Peavey stand) who thought that in the future, you wouldn't have a bass player, guitar player etc.  He theorised you'd just have two 9+ string players, one maybe playing a chord and tapping the bassline whilst the other plays another chord and taps the melody line or whatever. It's a good theory and I could imagine you could do some sub harmonic grooves and then some beautiful ethereal stuff too, especially with implied chords!

It'd never happen of course but I'd like to see it done well.

Andy!

I don't see this replacing the current band structure but there's already bands like that, like some of Trey Gunn projects

Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IwjnT70Oi8
Trey Gunn play 10 strings tap guitar + an 8 string tap guitar player