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1
Ok.  Gotcha.

What amp or amplification solution are you using?

My revv generator 120 has massive headroom on the clean channel so it is difficult to have the cleans break up.

The rebel yell set isn't quite as powerful as Juggernauts or the A-bomb so it is less likely to overdrive a clean channel.  Once again, this is dependent on amp and amp settings.

With my lower gain playing, I use touch sensitivity and just ride the volume knob the whole time, but this is to reduce gain on a lower gain channel.   
I can say that I haven't had trouble with the Rebel Yell neck pickup pushing a dedicated clean channel dialed in for cleans into clipping.


The closest I have heard to a pickup that does leads, rhythm, and clean is the juggernaut bridge pickup, but I like to have more than one sound which is why I like having a neck pickup as well.

I will also say that adjusting pickup height is very important for tones in general.
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That being said, do you have any experience with the Rebel Yell's and how they clean up? If I'd have to roll back on my volume to clean them up then they probably wouldn't be ideal for me either, as I typically don't mess around with my knobs much while playing; I want a set that will be already set to go when I switch over to my clean channel. If I could find a humbucker set with good cleans than I wouldn't be messing with alternative wiring's, but like you said, there's not gonna be one holy grail set for every use case.

Clean up compared to what?  I am not quite sure on the context here.  Rebel Yells aren't as high output as the Juggernaut set or even the Alnico Nailbomb.  I'd characterize them as a very clear pickup with a wide and even harmonic spread and a tight bottom.  They're more dynamic and not quite as saturated.  The neck cleans are great.  The bridge cleans are good in a dark guitar, like my Godin LG.

It's funny that you're against working the volume knob.  Using the volume knob gives some pretty marvelous lower gain tones on that pickup set as well.  I think you should experiment more with your controls while playing because there are so many tonal colours to be had.

Sorry, I mean to say that they'll distort/break-up on a clean amp unless I roll back the volume?

I'd rather use pickups that won't distort like than than have to compensate for them by fiddling with knobs while I'm playing: it's just not how I like to play, it doesn't interest me. Ideally I wouldn't even have to mess with switches/knobs to split/parallel humbuckers whenever I want to switch to playing clean......I'd rather just have humbuckers that already sound like I want when playing clean....but again, there's no one-size-fits-all solution.
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I get you when it comes to gain saturation. Fortunately I'm almost exclusively humbuckers for lead/dirt tones, so I don't think that'd be a consideration for me. Split/parallel for clean, and series for lead, nice n easy.

You really need to get one of those core 2502 N switches for your tech.  You'd love having the parallel option available for cleans right on the pickup selector!!!




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If the Silo's don't work out for me, I'll probably skip over any more pickup swapping, and just start saving up for a dedicated guitar for active's (I'm keeping an eye out for whenever Rondo puts out a 7-string version of this in white https://www.rondomusic.com/Agile_Geodesic_Pro_82528_EB_MOD_SS_White.html). Otherwise I think I'm gonna be stuck in a bottomless rabbit hole. Messing with poles and wiring schemes like you'd mentioned goes waaaaay over my head: all I know is that I could get my tech to set my volume+tone knobs to split+parallel, and that's the deepest I want to go. If that doesn't work, then it's on to the Abasi's, and if they don't cut it...then maybe I'll just give up on 7-strings :P. 

My old Fujigen RG7421 is an amazing 7 string.  I tend to really like -and see the utility of- bright and very articulate guitars for metal / 7 string.  Then you can go with a darker pickup that has a hotter wind.  Make no mistake, I really LOVE the cleans that I get from the Juggernaut set in that guitar.  It's just that the cleans don't work for Tosin and his approach is vastly different from mine.


Quote
That being said, do you have any experience with the Rebel Yell's and how they clean up? If I'd have to roll back on my volume to clean them up then they probably wouldn't be ideal for me either, as I typically don't mess around with my knobs much while playing; I want a set that will be already set to go when I switch over to my clean channel. If I could find a humbucker set with good cleans than I wouldn't be messing with alternative wiring's, but like you said, there's not gonna be one holy grail set for every use case.

Clean up compared to what?  I am not quite sure on the context here.  Rebel Yells aren't as high output as the Juggernaut set or even the Alnico Nailbomb.  I'd characterize them as a very clear pickup with a wide and even harmonic spread and a tight bottom.  They're more dynamic and not quite as saturated.  The neck cleans are great.  The bridge cleans are good in a dark guitar, like my Godin LG.

It's funny that you're against working the volume knob.  Using the volume knob gives some pretty marvelous lower gain tones on that pickup set as well.  I think you should experiment more with your controls while playing because there are so many tonal colours to be had.

4


Thanks for the reply! Nice to hear some input from Tosin, and thanks for the links too. I don't really have a clearly defined lead tone in mind that I'm looking for, but I'm not hearing anything I don't like from your samples. Taking into account what you and Tosin said, it sounds like I made the right choice: I decided to try the Silo's first after talking with a Bareknuckle rep. I'd say my 7-string sounds darker compared to my Les Paul, so that's supporting my decision too.

Ultimately, my gut tells me that the Abasi pup's are would be the better choice, but I'd rather not have to get a separate axe right now and I don't feel like routing out my guitar's cavity to fit a battery container. I'll report back in after I've got them installed and try to report my findings.

One thing I'm still curious about is your experience with the Fluences: my understanding is that the main difference between them and the Abasi's is the clean tones. Apart from that, can you describe their compression? One of my beefs with my Cold Sweat's is how much harder I have to attack the strings than compared with my Les Paul if I want a similar output. I don't use a lot of force in my pick attack, and I've read that the Fishman pup's are more compressed.

They do have backplate and control cover battery packs for Fluence but it's difficult to say if they have anything that would fit your instrument.


I am not an expert when it comes to Fishman pickups although I've played them once or twice.  I think the big thing I noted as being different from traditional pickups was the feel. 
I really liked the Fishman Classics but I didn't care for the modern ones.
There is this tonal 'quality' about them that reminds me of their under saddle pickups for acoustic guitars.  It's hard to put into words.
It's just a DIFFERENT kind of a thing  There is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYY!!!! less hum than even with a humbucker, and the sound is almost a bit sterile.
It doesn't have the 'warmth' and responsiveness' (feel?) that you associate with a traditional HMB.  But, then the cleans are also very bold, clear, high fi, and sparkling.  It's a great clean, but also a different clean.

It's not good.  It's not bad.  It's different.  It's a new technology and frankly, I like them better than EMGs. 

For my money, I'd get a classics set but the Abasi set looks interesting for other reasons.  Namely, it's really cool that you can get 'single coil tones' but at the same output as the humbucking tones.
For me personally, I like having different output levels because it means different levels of gain saturation.  I like that split coils have less push.  BUT.  This doesn't work for what Tosin is doing.


Anyhow, BKP are top tier pickups so you can't go wrong with the Silo set.  With a super dark guitar, I would have been inclined to try something like a Rebel Yell set, since these pickups have a very wide and even harmonic response with a tight, clear and tapered low end.  Perfect for very dark instruments.  But, ya.  I think the Silo set is the right choice for you out of the BKP line up.   If you need more clarity and less bass, you can raise the pole pieces and lower the pickup height. 

For wiring options, I really like the Ibanez 2 humbucker wiring with Series neck, parallel neck, Series B N, inner coils, and Series bridge. 

Anyway, one day you'll want to get a guitar with active pickups that you can put the Abasi set in.  I have multiple instruments since they all cover unique tones: One instrument can't ever be everything to one player.

I get you when it comes to gain saturation. Fortunately I'm almost exclusively humbuckers for lead/dirt tones, so I don't think that'd be a consideration for me. Split/parallel for clean, and series for lead, nice n easy.

If the Silo's don't work out for me, I'll probably skip over any more pickup swapping, and just start saving up for a dedicated guitar for active's (I'm keeping an eye out for whenever Rondo puts out a 7-string version of this in white https://www.rondomusic.com/Agile_Geodesic_Pro_82528_EB_MOD_SS_White.html). Otherwise I think I'm gonna be stuck in a bottomless rabbit hole. Messing with poles and wiring schemes like you'd mentioned goes waaaaay over my head: all I know is that I could get my tech to set my volume+tone knobs to split+parallel, and that's the deepest I want to go. If that doesn't work, then it's on to the Abasi's, and if they don't cut it...then maybe I'll just give up on 7-strings :P.

That being said, do you have any experience with the Rebel Yell's and how they clean up? If I'd have to roll back on my volume to clean them up then they probably wouldn't be ideal for me either, as I typically don't mess around with my knobs much while playing; I want a set that will be already set to go when I switch over to my clean channel. If I could find a humbucker set with good cleans than I wouldn't be messing with alternative wiring's, but like you said, there's not gonna be one holy grail set for every use case.
5
Pickups / Re: Polymath... and prices
« Last post by Yellowjacket on January 15, 2022, 10:36:58 PM »


For my applications the Rebel Yell was a bit too bright and had a bit too much hair/sizzle in the top end.
Compared to the Rebel Yell, does the Polymath have less of that "hairy" upper-mid/treble quality to it?

A tangential interjection:  It's funny for me to think of the Rebel Yell as having 'hair' compared to the Alnico Nailbomb.  That thing is unapologetically pissed off.

Do post a review of the Polymath set.
6


Thanks for the reply! Nice to hear some input from Tosin, and thanks for the links too. I don't really have a clearly defined lead tone in mind that I'm looking for, but I'm not hearing anything I don't like from your samples. Taking into account what you and Tosin said, it sounds like I made the right choice: I decided to try the Silo's first after talking with a Bareknuckle rep. I'd say my 7-string sounds darker compared to my Les Paul, so that's supporting my decision too.

Ultimately, my gut tells me that the Abasi pup's are would be the better choice, but I'd rather not have to get a separate axe right now and I don't feel like routing out my guitar's cavity to fit a battery container. I'll report back in after I've got them installed and try to report my findings.

One thing I'm still curious about is your experience with the Fluences: my understanding is that the main difference between them and the Abasi's is the clean tones. Apart from that, can you describe their compression? One of my beefs with my Cold Sweat's is how much harder I have to attack the strings than compared with my Les Paul if I want a similar output. I don't use a lot of force in my pick attack, and I've read that the Fishman pup's are more compressed.

They do have backplate and control cover battery packs for Fluence but it's difficult to say if they have anything that would fit your instrument.


I am not an expert when it comes to Fishman pickups although I've played them once or twice.  I think the big thing I noted as being different from traditional pickups was the feel. 
I really liked the Fishman Classics but I didn't care for the modern ones.
There is this tonal 'quality' about them that reminds me of their under saddle pickups for acoustic guitars.  It's hard to put into words.
It's just a DIFFERENT kind of a thing  There is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYY!!!! less hum than even with a humbucker, and the sound is almost a bit sterile.
It doesn't have the 'warmth' and responsiveness' (feel?) that you associate with a traditional HMB.  But, then the cleans are also very bold, clear, high fi, and sparkling.  It's a great clean, but also a different clean.

It's not good.  It's not bad.  It's different.  It's a new technology and frankly, I like them better than EMGs. 

For my money, I'd get a classics set but the Abasi set looks interesting for other reasons.  Namely, it's really cool that you can get 'single coil tones' but at the same output as the humbucking tones.
For me personally, I like having different output levels because it means different levels of gain saturation.  I like that split coils have less push.  BUT.  This doesn't work for what Tosin is doing.


Anyhow, BKP are top tier pickups so you can't go wrong with the Silo set.  With a super dark guitar, I would have been inclined to try something like a Rebel Yell set, since these pickups have a very wide and even harmonic response with a tight, clear and tapered low end.  Perfect for very dark instruments.  But, ya.  I think the Silo set is the right choice for you out of the BKP line up.   If you need more clarity and less bass, you can raise the pole pieces and lower the pickup height. 

For wiring options, I really like the Ibanez 2 humbucker wiring with Series neck, parallel neck, Series B N, inner coils, and Series bridge. 

Anyway, one day you'll want to get a guitar with active pickups that you can put the Abasi set in.  I have multiple instruments since they all cover unique tones: One instrument can't ever be everything to one player.   
7
Have you tried raising the bridge  cold sweat as close as possible to the strings? (while holding the last fret)

I'd say it's already pretty close: I measure both pickups at about 3mm away from touching the strings, with the neck pickup only slightly further away.
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Have you tried raising the bridge  cold sweat as close as possible to the strings? (while holding the last fret)
9
I can comment a bit on this in part.
I haven't tried the Abasi Fluence pickups but I have tried fishman fluence pickups.  I'd say the feel is 'different' than with traditional pickups.
I had a conversation with Tosin about this -after an AAL show- and he commented on how he likes the Juggernaut tone for distortion but not for clean tones.
He was talking about transients, tightness, clarity, response, etc.  I think if playing in his style or a style similar to his, his pickups are a great option.

Now.  I have experience with Juggernauts.  I like them for the reasons that Misha likes them:  They are tight with great clarity, but they also don't get overly shrill for lead tones.  Cleans are VERY good, for a traditional pickup, even on the bridge pickup.  But I don't do the same kind of playing that Tosin does, so my needs are different.

I have the Juggernaut pickups in two different guitars.

1 is a 6 string bolt on strat style super strat.  It has a schaller locking trem system with an after market brass block.  The guitar is strat voiced but more on the dark side.  So, brighter than a Les Paul, but darker than an Ibanez RG.  The Juggernauts sound dark and huge in this guitar. 

https://soundcloud.com/user-37551482/modern-metal-demo?si=4aced8c58cc64111a2bd8aa81e7af46a&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

I don't have a clean sample on hand but I'd say they're warm and buttery.  I played an Ibanez superstrat with BKP Aftermaths and it occurred to me that the aftermath set would be an equal or better option for this particular guitar.

The other guitar is an Ibanez RG7421 with a hipshot FP bridge.  This guitar is the brightest of bright guitars with lots of twang in the tone.
The pickups sound full and balanced with more cut in the upper mids.  For this one I happen to have a clip with cleans and with dirt.

https://soundcloud.com/user-37551482/progressive?si=a1fc65545d0a4e749bcaf42ea6cdf7f2&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

and some metal tones:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHIXh1RQhbg

My personal opinion is this:  Listen to the acoustic tone of your guitar.  Try to class it from bright to dark.  In my experience, the brighter the guitar, the better the Juggernauts will work.  But that's just my taste.  I like a guitar where the pickups complement and enhance the natural tone of the instrument. 

 For me, the Juggernaut set is basically the perfect pickups for this 7 string guitar and it really nails the exact kind of metal tone I am after. 


So yeah.  I'd say if your guitar is very bright and attacky when unplugged, I'd go with juggernauts. If it's darker, perhaps Silos would be the better choice.  Either way, I think you can't go wrong.

Thanks for the reply! Nice to hear some input from Tosin, and thanks for the links too. I don't really have a clearly defined lead tone in mind that I'm looking for, but I'm not hearing anything I don't like from your samples. Taking into account what you and Tosin said, it sounds like I made the right choice: I decided to try the Silo's first after talking with a Bareknuckle rep. I'd say my 7-string sounds darker compared to my Les Paul, so that's supporting my decision too.

Ultimately, my gut tells me that the Abasi pup's are would be the better choice, but I'd rather not have to get a separate axe right now and I don't feel like routing out my guitar's cavity to fit a battery container. I'll report back in after I've got them installed and try to report my findings.

One thing I'm still curious about is your experience with the Fluences: my understanding is that the main difference between them and the Abasi's is the clean tones. Apart from that, can you describe their compression? One of my beefs with my Cold Sweat's is how much harder I have to attack the strings than compared with my Les Paul if I want a similar output. I don't use a lot of force in my pick attack, and I've read that the Fishman pup's are more compressed.
10
Pickups / Re: Nailbomb series/parallel (input appreciated)......
« Last post by Yellowjacket on January 14, 2022, 05:10:29 AM »
I'd buy a new pickup and sell the old one.

Thanks for your input.  I might just do this.   Still fence sitting.

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I've put treble bleeds on all of my non-'50s recent builds.

My super strats are wired this way but the LP has the 50s style wiring with PIO caps.  The whole vintage correct set up thing.

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The Crawler neck with the alnico Nailbomb is a very interesting combination!

Ya.  That strikes me as odd in a guitar that tends to have a very warm and buttery neck position.  I have a Rebel Yeck and an A-Bomb bridge since the pickups were sounding too disparate for the amp I was using. 
I think the A-bomb is great and I was never feeling like I was missing anything until I was trying to pair it up with my Strat for double tracking.  Humbuckers just don't push into breakup as smoothly as a strat does and that stupid fender is just magical with the mother's milk pickups.
I would cave and try a mule set but I really REALLY like having the muscle from the A-bomb.   As Nolly has pointed out, parallel wiring sounds really great for humbuckers and it's a great way to get an alternate voice out of a HBM.
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