Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: hunter on August 14, 2008, 10:00:18 PM
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see title, I need some direction and reassurance .. PLEASE 8)
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Not HDs - haven't tried 'em, but I'm sure they'd be too dark.
Riff Raffs or Mules - yes, great, but lower output than the Gibson pickups. Is that what you're after?
If you want something hot(-ish), I have a feeling Cold Sweats might be bright/clear enough for an SG, just based on what I've read of course.
Or as an experiment, you could try your VHIIs or RYs in the SG and see how well they work. :)
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Not tried them in an SG, but I would not choose HD's. They only just have enough cut in a bright LPC, IMO
The classic Patented p'ups are RR's I guess, which would fit with the SG sound
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Not HDs - haven't tried 'em, but I'm sure they'd be too dark.
Riff Raffs or Mules - yes, great, but lower output than the Gibson pickups. Is that what you're after?
If you want something hot(-ish), I have a feeling Cold Sweats might be bright/clear enough for an SG, just based on what I've read of course.
Or as an experiment, you could try your VHIIs or RYs in the SG and see how well they work. :)
Thanks Philly, yeah I thought about that, but the VHIIs in the Edwards are going nowhere. I don't wanna even touch them. I thought Mules because I have so many AV pickups already (BDs, VHIIs, RYs) that I thought of an AIV as a change. Output is not such an issue as with my current rig it's easy to adapt it to a different guitar.
Cold sweats sound tempting but not sure I want so hot pickups, I wanna be able to squeeze the tone out and not have it jump at me if you know what I mean.
Has anyone got any experience with Mules in a Mahogany only guitar? What will they be like? Or should I match them with a Stormy Monday neck?
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I think gwEm has an AV bridge/AIV neck Mule set in one of his Vs, presumably mahogany. I'd like to try that, the AV bridge would give that little bit more punch and definition than AIV, but still with more mids than the Riff Raff.
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Hi Hunter, :)
In my '76 S.G. Standard, I found Alnico IV Stormy mondays sound nice - and cut through better than the AII versions. Mississippi Queens where also a winner in that guitar, but between the two choices ( and two guitars to B.K.P ) - the AIV Stormys have ended up in the S.G. and M.Qs in the 335 copy.
Bear in mind that I do prefer a guitar sound that stays sweet whilst still cutting through, so if you want more bite and aggression, it is ( as you already metioned ) the Riff Raffs.
So although my current favourite B.K.P pickup is the M.Q, my vote is for AIV Stormy Mondays in your S.G, they ( AIV Stormies ) do sound different ( i.e. fresher / flatter E.Q. ) from the AIV Mules I have in my Les Paul Standard. :)
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There's definitely someone with Mules in an SG on the forum, a search should find them. They may be a bit thick sounding, but that might be what you're after. HDs would be WAY too thick I would imagine.
RRs work well, obviously, but they can be a bit 'cold' sounding. Fine if you use a lot of effects, or need that Angus 'cut' like I do, but they don't do warm sweet blues in my opinion.
Have you not thought about a set of Stormy Mondays? AII for classic sweet tones or AIV if you like it a touch brighter?
Edit: Beaten to it by Derek!
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RRs work well, obviously, but they can be a bit 'cold' sounding. Fine if you use a lot of effects, or need that Angus 'cut' like I do, but they don't do warm sweet blues in my opinion.
Have you not thought about a set of Stormy Mondays? AII for classic sweet tones or AIV if you like it a touch brighter?
Or RR bridge, SM neck for the best of both worlds - that's what'll be going in my Tokai SG if I ever stop buying guitars long enough to get some pickups. :roll:
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EDIT: Fourth Feline beat me to it on MQs, but I haven't got time to rewrite it al!! :D
To add something else to the pot... Have you ever wondered about getting Mississipi Queens at any point? If you have, then this might be the guitar to put them in.
I had Riff Raffs in my Epi SG, they did exactly what I was expecting, I feel they have a slightly tighter sound than my Mules, and I don't think I'd personally bother trying my Mules in all mahogany. Then I "tried the RRs out" in my Explorer - and they ARE NOT MOVING from that guitar (so I know exactly what you mean on your VHIIs! :D).
That freed me up to try the MQs in the SG. My reasoning was "Pete Townsend had P90s in his SGs" and I wanted to know what P90 types were like anyway.
I'm very happy with them. If anything, I'd say they are more powerful than the Riff Raffs and Mules. Nothing scientific here, it's just that with guitar volume on full they drive my amp models - and my valve amp - harder than any of my other guitars.
They are very sensitive to pick attack and volume controls - if I was playing live, I wouldn't need any stompbox/whatever to switch between clean/crunch/lead.
A possible drawback that Philly will point out :wink: is that the bridge MQ doesn't quite get you a bridge humbucker tone for crunchy chord riffing - but for my purposes it is very close, a lot closer than I imagined it would be.
Apart from the fact that I need to sort the bridge and its saddles out on this particular guitar, and that I've acquired too many guitars/pups in a short space of time, my MQ'd SG would be getting a lot of attention - it's a very versatile guitar now.
If, however, you don't have a subconscious desire to try P90-style at some point - then disregard all the above! :lol:
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A possible drawback that Philly will point out :wink: is that the bridge MQ doesn't quite get you a bridge humbucker tone for crunchy chord riffing - but for my purposes it is very close, a lot closer than I imagined it would be.
Saved me the trouble, Andy! :wink: :lol:
But I'll stand by it. I'm finding the same with my new Epi LP Special, but that won't be keeping its P-90s for long.
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The RR in my SG Std has come out to be replaced by another pickup brand (approximately equivalent to a SM IV) as I found it had bite at the expense of mid/lower mid and bass. Way too thin.
I prefer a more balanced sound and after some experimentation have gone for more vintage PAF type pickups.
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I think gwEm has an AV bridge/AIV neck Mule set in one of his Vs, presumably mahogany. I'd like to try that, the AV bridge would give that little bit more punch and definition than AIV, but still with more mids than the Riff Raff.
You're correct Philly, and welcome to come and try it whenever you like.
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The RR in my SG Std has come out to be replaced by another pickup brand (approximately equivalent to a SM IV) as I found it had bite at the expense of mid/lower mid and bass. Way too thin.
I prefer a more balanced sound and after some experimentation have gone for more vintage PAF type pickups.
i think this is fair to a certain extent. the riff raffs are all about dry bite. they don't have too much lower mid. in fact, i quite like this characteristic for certain tones, especially 70s hard rock. i've always said riff raffs are quite specialist - i think this applied to Vs and SGs, i tried riff raff les pauls from feline and phil and the les paul fatness adds back the lower frequencies giving a versatile sound.
I found the A5 riff raff neck in my V to be somewhat cold when clean - though it does driven biting blues EXCELLENTLY. i think this is why a RR/SM set is a popular combo, because you then get that biting bridge, which contrasts with a mellow neck tone. A4 or A2 neck works well in the middle position with an A5 bridge.
hunter was worried that more A5 pickups would sound similar. i don't think you need to worry about that mate. i haven't ever tried VH2s, but riff raffs are very different to BDs and RYs. with the wind tim has, you get ceramic levels of bite.
riff raffs in a V (my V anyway!) absolutely nail Schenker's 'Strangers In The Night' tone.
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How 'bout a Cold Sweat bridge with something AIV based in the neck? Just throwing in ideas here, but with VHIIs in your main guitar, this would provide a nice contrast. I see you like Whitesnake and it's a commonly known fact that the CS bridge is bang on the Sykes tone. The reason I suggest AIV for the neck is again contrast to your other guitars. Again, just pitching the idea, I don't know if it's actually what you want.
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I think gwEm has an AV bridge/AIV neck Mule set in one of his Vs, presumably mahogany. I'd like to try that, the AV bridge would give that little bit more punch and definition than AIV, but still with more mids than the Riff Raff.
You're correct Philly, and welcome to come and try it whenever you like.
Cheers gwEm! :D I'm thinking it might be the ideal combo to use when I humbucker-ize my LP Junior.
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Wow, this is awesome advise, you guys still rock so much!
Now my preferences are crystallising towards these possibilities:
Cold Sweat Bridge - AIV Stormy Monday or Missisippi Queen neck
RiffRaff Bridge - AIV Stormy Monday or Missisippi Queen neck
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm *scratchhead* .......
P.S.: I would also like to try a set of these new Gibson Std 2008 Pots, can they be purchased anywhere?
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How 'bout a Cold Sweat bridge with something AIV based in the neck? Just throwing in ideas here, but with VHIIs in your main guitar, this would provide a nice contrast. I see you like Whitesnake and it's a commonly known fact that the CS bridge is bang on the Sykes tone. The reason I suggest AIV for the neck is again contrast to your other guitars. Again, just pitching the idea, I don't know if it's actually what you want.
Yeah, CS bridge and Abraxas neck could be a good combo, I think; I know the CS neck is a very popular choice but I think it might be a little too bright (for me personally, that is).
But I do get the impression the CS is an LP pickup, I'm not 100% sure it'd be right in an SG, although I'd like to try it.
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Yeah, CS bridge and Abraxas neck could be a good combo, I think; I know the CS neck is a very popular choice but I think it might be a little too bright (for me personally, that is).
Yep that's the set I have in mind for my next guitar. 8) For pretty much the same reasons really. I like an aggresive bridge pickup and a sweet neck pickup.
How it would be in an SG... I'd like to know aswell :lol: That's why I suggested it. In all mahogany, the CS has been described as "dark with bite" which is a rare characteristic I think. Some SGs are pretty shrill sounding naturally and with stock pickups (despite being all mahogany), so personally I'd be most inclined to go high output to drive through it.
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Yeah, CS bridge and Abraxas neck could be a good combo, I think; I know the CS neck is a very popular choice but I think it might be a little too bright (for me personally, that is).
Yep that's the set I have in mind for my next guitar. 8) For pretty much the same reasons really. I like an aggresive bridge pickup and a sweet neck pickup.
How it would be in an SG... I'd like to know aswell :lol: That's why I suggested it. In all mahogany, the CS has been described as "dark with bite" which is a rare characteristic I think. Some SGs are pretty shrill sounding naturally and with stock pickups (despite being all mahogany), so personally I'd be most inclined to go high output to drive through it.
:lol: :lol: We're definitely thinking along the same lines here - using Hunter as a guinea pig! :P
You're right about SGs too, my Tokai is quite thin sounding acoustically, compared with my other SGs and mahogany guitars. I'm still thinking RR/SM, but I'm worried it might end up being a bit weedy. Fortunately I already have the SM and I can try the RR from my SG-X, so if it doesn't work I'll buy something hotter.
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In all mahogany, the CS has been described as "dark with bite" which is a rare characteristic I think.
yeah, i'd go with that too
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For something a bit punchier in the bridge the AV Mule is great. I prefer it over the Riff Raff as it is a bit fatter in sound. I have it with a Stormy Monday neck, but with a Mule it would sound good too. Another combination I have in a mahogany guitar (though it does has a metal front), is an Emerald/Mule set. This set is a bit heavier in tone, more Thin Lizzie than Free.
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Out of the pickups u've mentioned I've only tried the riff raff and holydiver bridges and I would definately recommend the riff raff for your sg. You can get great angus Young and Michael Schenker tones from it and it seems to work great with sg's. I also think its alot more versitile than some people say. I can get some good early sabbath type tones from it with the correct settings. With the right amp it can sound plenty thick enough imo aswell.
Heres a clip I did with my jcm800 which i think sounds quite thick http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=13517.0
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Out of the pickups u've mentioned I've only tried the riff raff and holydiver bridges and I would definately recommend the riff raff for your sg. You can get great angus Young and Michael Schenker tones from it and it seems to work great with sg's. I also think its alot more versitile than some people say. I can get some good early sabbath type tones from it with the correct settings. With the right amp it can sound plenty thick enough imo aswell.
Heres a clip I did with my jcm800 which i think sounds quite thick http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=13517.0
Phwoar Tom, you just sold that RiffRaff to me. It's a stock one, nothing special, normal AV RiffRaff right?
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*sigh* Oh well, I tried.
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Out of the pickups u've mentioned I've only tried the riff raff and holydiver bridges and I would definately recommend the riff raff for your sg. You can get great angus Young and Michael Schenker tones from it and it seems to work great with sg's. I also think its alot more versitile than some people say. I can get some good early sabbath type tones from it with the correct settings. With the right amp it can sound plenty thick enough imo aswell.
Heres a clip I did with my jcm800 which i think sounds quite thick http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=13517.0
Phwoar Tom, you just sold that RiffRaff to me. It's a stock one, nothing special, normal AV RiffRaff right?
Yea as far as I know its a stock one. I got it from Crazy_joe on this forum
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since getting an AIV BKP90 I've not used anything else, so I'd recommend a MQ.
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*sigh* Oh well, I tried.
Next SG will get your CSs, I promise :o)
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I have a RR for sale if anyone's interested.
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since getting an AIV BKP90 I've not used anything else, so I'd recommend a MQ.
A quick 'P.S' from my original mention of M.Qs. I am ( like H.T.H ) now a prime advocate of M.Qs in a lot of guitars, but out of curiosity you may / may not be interested to hear that last night, I had cause to pull out my AIV Mule equipped Les Paul for a play, and then ( with the same pickup heights, amp E.Q. and volume settings ) I played my 335 copy with the M.Qs in . The M.Qs where noticable more powerfull ( whilst remaining sweet and clean ) - and the articulation was more evident, even at bedroom volumes.
I realise a 335 copy is going to sound more 'open' than a Gibson Les Paul standard, but WOW ! - the difference in clean power and overall clarity really surprised me :D
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since getting an AIV BKP90 I've not used anything else, so I'd recommend a MQ.
A quick 'P.S' from my original mention of M.Qs. I am ( like H.T.H ) now a prime advocate of M.Qs in a lot of guitars, but out of curiosity you may / may not be interested to hear that last night, I had cause to pull out my AIV Mule equipped Les Paul for a play, and then ( with the same pickup heights, amp E.Q. and volume settings ) I played my 335 copy with the M.Qs in . The M.Qs where noticable more powerfull ( whilst remaining sweet and clean ) - and the articulation was more evident, even at bedroom volumes.
I realise a 335 copy is going to sound more 'open' than a Gibson Les Paul standard, but WOW ! - the difference in clean power and overall clarity really surprised me :D
They aren't noise cancelling those MQs are they?
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Should be hum free in the middle position. I love my MQs in my epi les paul. Very little noise, even with a high gain fuzz. Only really gets noisy when pointed to an old tv, not even my laptop interferes with it.
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You can have the MQs hum cancelling or not. I ordered non-cancelling P90s in my LP Special, hum-cancelling was standard.
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From what im reading i would think the Riff Raffs would be bang on for you in your SG.
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Hi Hunter,
Tim recommended that I get the standard M.Q wiring, ( i.e. not-hum cancelling in the mid position ) - to keep the tone and output fat / stong in the middle toggle position.
He explained that because the M.Qs encase the windings in a sealed nickel box - it effectively creates a 'Faraday Cage' - and dispells hum / interferance that way, without having to set any coil (s) in opposition to each other.
I have not gigged them, but am finding them very quiet at home, in a house where single coil hum and noise pickup has been a problem in the past. I cannot tell the difference between them and humbuckers noise wise, but am blown away by the tone . :)
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I'm loving the Cold Sweat in my Les Paul, so I'm keeping it there and the Holy Diver will be installed on my SG right tomorrow :D
the Holy Diver is not as dark as most people paint it
how could a JB based pickup be so dark?
it may sound dark in lower tunings if compared to ceramic pickups, but in standard tunings it sounds pretty bright, just not overly bright like a Duncan JB
most Gibson pickups are darker than it
but I'd love to try a SG with Riff Raffs too :D
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the Holy Diver will be installed on my SG right tomorrow :D
Let us know all about it.
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Soooo, got reply from Tim, this is what he said:
my personal fav on an SG is either Riff Raff calibrated set or Stormy Monday calibrated set-both sets seem to work exceptionally well with the construction and timber and deliver the tones you associate in your 'minds ear' with early '60 SGs................SMs are bright,articulate and extremely dynamic whereas RRs have the vintage snarl of Angus Young or Jimmy Page when they really get going.
One other option which I have in a 73 SG is a Mississippi queen set-awesome fat P90 tones and tonally almost between the SMs and RRs.
Cold Sweat humbuckers will turn it into more of an all out rock monster-I've done 2 sets of these last week destined for SGs where the customers wanted to keep the bright attack of the SG but add more balls to the tone and output.
If it were me-classic rock- got to be Riff Raff bridge........neck either Riff Raff or MQ......................if you want to stray outside your norm try MQs, you'll love them.
My decision is: RR bridge, MQ neck
Now about looks. I was wondering if I should go for a black bridge and nickel or chrome neck, what do you guys reckon?
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Now about looks. I was wondering if I should go for a black bridge and nickel or chrome neck, what do you guys reckon?
Nooooo, chrome or nickel all the way!
(Interested to know how the RR/MQ combo works out - I thought the MQ might be a bit hot, but since Tim's suggested it... )
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I to would be interested to hear how this turns out. At the moment either chrome/ nickel and black, or just nickel/ chrome looks good, sorry that doesn't help at all really
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Both chrome/nickel (which color is the hardware?)
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Both chrome/nickel (which color is the hardware?)
If it's a Standard, it'll be all chrome - apart from nickel tuners. Bloody Gibson. :roll:
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Black covers, nickel screws. Why would you want it looking stock anyway?
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RR/MQ sounds cool to me 8)
I thought your idea for the black/chrome colour combo would be weird, but i quite like it in fact in your prepared image.
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I thought the MQ might be a bit hot, but since Tim's suggested it... )
RiffRaff Neck: 7.4KOhm
MQ Neck: 7KOhm
According to resistance it should be fine, but I assume if I order them together to be matched, Tim will take care anyways?
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Hunter, although you already have a set of Black Dogs, I was wondering if you had ever tried them in your SG. I emailed Tim about getting a tone similar to Kim Thayil (Soundgarden) and he recommended these.