Time to BKP my SG Standard - Mules or RiffRaffs or ... Holydivers?

[hunter]

see title, I need some direction and reassurance .. PLEASE  8)

[Philly Q]

Not HDs - haven't tried 'em, but I'm sure they'd be too dark.

Riff Raffs or Mules - yes, great, but lower output than the Gibson pickups.  Is that what you're after?

If you want something hot(-ish), I have a feeling Cold Sweats might be bright/clear enough for an SG, just based on what I've read of course.

Or as an experiment, you could try your VHIIs or RYs in the SG and see how well they work.  :)

[Will]

Not tried them in an SG, but I would not choose HD's. They only just have enough cut in a bright LPC, IMO

The classic Patented p'ups are RR's I guess, which would fit with the SG sound

[hunter]

Not HDs - haven't tried 'em, but I'm sure they'd be too dark.

Riff Raffs or Mules - yes, great, but lower output than the Gibson pickups.  Is that what you're after?

If you want something hot(-ish), I have a feeling Cold Sweats might be bright/clear enough for an SG, just based on what I've read of course.

Or as an experiment, you could try your VHIIs or RYs in the SG and see how well they work.  :)

Thanks Philly, yeah I thought about that, but the VHIIs in the Edwards are going nowhere. I don't wanna even touch them. I thought Mules because I have so many AV pickups already (BDs, VHIIs, RYs) that I thought of an AIV as a change. Output is not such an issue as with my current rig it's easy to adapt it to a different guitar.

Cold sweats sound tempting but not sure I want so hot pickups, I wanna be able to squeeze the tone out and not have it jump at me if you know what I mean.

Has anyone got any experience with Mules in a Mahogany only guitar? What will they be like? Or should I match them with a Stormy Monday neck?

[Philly Q]

I think gwEm has an AV bridge/AIV neck Mule set in one of his Vs, presumably mahogany.  I'd like to try that, the AV bridge would give that little bit more punch and definition than AIV, but still with more mids than the Riff Raff.

[Fourth Feline]

Hi Hunter,  :)

In my '76 S.G. Standard, I found Alnico IV Stormy mondays sound nice - and cut through better than the AII versions. Mississippi Queens where also a winner in that guitar, but between the two choices ( and two guitars to B.K.P ) - the AIV Stormys have ended up in the S.G. and M.Qs in the 335 copy.

Bear in mind that I do prefer a guitar sound that stays sweet whilst still cutting through, so if you want more bite and aggression, it is ( as you already metioned ) the Riff Raffs. 

So although my current favourite B.K.P pickup is the M.Q, my vote is for AIV Stormy Mondays in your S.G, they ( AIV Stormies ) do sound different ( i.e. fresher / flatter E.Q. ) from the AIV Mules I have in my Les Paul Standard.  :)

[Twinfan]

There's definitely someone with Mules in an SG on the forum, a search should find them.  They may be a bit thick sounding, but that might be what you're after.  HDs would be WAY too thick I would imagine.

RRs work well, obviously, but they can be a bit 'cold' sounding.  Fine if you use a lot of effects, or need that Angus 'cut' like I do, but they don't do warm sweet blues in my opinion.

Have you not thought about a set of Stormy Mondays?  AII for classic sweet tones or AIV if you like it a touch brighter?

Edit:  Beaten to it by Derek!

[Philly Q]

RRs work well, obviously, but they can be a bit 'cold' sounding.  Fine if you use a lot of effects, or need that Angus 'cut' like I do, but they don't do warm sweet blues in my opinion.

Have you not thought about a set of Stormy Mondays?  AII for classic sweet tones or AIV if you like it a touch brighter?

Or RR bridge, SM neck for the best of both worlds - that's what'll be going in my Tokai SG if I ever stop buying guitars long enough to get some pickups. :roll:

[AndyR]

EDIT: Fourth Feline beat me to it on MQs, but I haven't got time to rewrite it al!! :D



To add something else to the pot... Have you ever wondered about getting Mississipi Queens at any point? If you have, then this might be the guitar to put them in.

I had Riff Raffs in my Epi SG, they did exactly what I was expecting, I feel they have a slightly tighter sound than my Mules, and I don't think I'd personally bother trying my Mules in all mahogany. Then I "tried the RRs out" in my Explorer - and they ARE NOT MOVING from that guitar (so I know exactly what you mean on your VHIIs! :D).

That freed me up to try the MQs in the SG. My reasoning was "Pete Townsend had P90s in his SGs" and I wanted to know what P90 types were like anyway.

I'm very happy with them. If anything, I'd say they are more powerful than the Riff Raffs and Mules. Nothing scientific here, it's just that with guitar volume on full they drive my amp models - and my valve amp - harder than any of my other guitars.

They are very sensitive to pick attack and volume controls - if I was playing live, I wouldn't need any stompbox/whatever to switch between clean/crunch/lead.

A possible drawback that Philly will point out is that the bridge MQ doesn't quite get you a bridge humbucker tone for crunchy chord riffing - but for my purposes it is very close, a lot closer than I imagined it would be.

Apart from the fact that I need to sort the bridge and its saddles out on this particular guitar, and that I've acquired too many guitars/pups in a short space of time, my MQ'd SG would be getting a lot of attention - it's a very versatile guitar now.

If, however, you don't have a subconscious desire to try P90-style at some point - then disregard all the above! :lol:

[Philly Q]

A possible drawback that Philly will point out is that the bridge MQ doesn't quite get you a bridge humbucker tone for crunchy chord riffing - but for my purposes it is very close, a lot closer than I imagined it would be.

Saved me the trouble, Andy!  :lol:

But I'll stand by it.  I'm finding the same with my new Epi LP Special, but that won't be keeping its P-90s for long.

[martinw]

The RR in my SG Std has come out to be replaced by another pickup brand (approximately equivalent to a SM IV) as I found it had bite at the expense of mid/lower mid and bass. Way too thin.
I prefer a more balanced sound and after some experimentation  have gone for more vintage PAF type pickups.

[gwEm]

I think gwEm has an AV bridge/AIV neck Mule set in one of his Vs, presumably mahogany.  I'd like to try that, the AV bridge would give that little bit more punch and definition than AIV, but still with more mids than the Riff Raff.

You're correct Philly, and welcome to come and try it whenever you like.

[gwEm]

The RR in my SG Std has come out to be replaced by another pickup brand (approximately equivalent to a SM IV) as I found it had bite at the expense of mid/lower mid and bass. Way too thin.
I prefer a more balanced sound and after some experimentation  have gone for more vintage PAF type pickups.

i think this is fair to a certain extent. the riff raffs are all about dry bite. they don't have too much lower mid. in fact, i quite like this characteristic for certain tones, especially 70s hard rock. i've always said riff raffs are quite specialist - i think this applied to Vs and SGs, i tried riff raff les pauls from feline and phil and the les paul fatness adds back the lower frequencies giving a versatile sound.

I found the A5 riff raff neck in my V to be somewhat cold when clean - though it does driven biting blues EXCELLENTLY. i think this is why a RR/SM set is a popular combo, because you then get that biting bridge, which contrasts with a mellow neck tone. A4 or A2 neck works well in the middle position with an A5 bridge.

hunter was worried that more A5 pickups would sound similar. i don't think you need to worry about that mate. i haven't ever tried VH2s, but riff raffs are very different to BDs and RYs. with the wind tim has, you get ceramic levels of bite.

riff raffs in a V (my V anyway!) absolutely nail Schenker's 'Strangers In The Night' tone.

[il˙ti]

How 'bout a Cold Sweat bridge with something AIV based in the neck? Just throwing in ideas here, but with VHIIs in your main guitar, this would provide a nice contrast. I see you like Whitesnake and it's a commonly known fact that the CS bridge is bang on the Sykes tone. The reason I suggest AIV for the neck is again contrast to your other guitars. Again, just pitching the idea, I don't know if it's actually what you want.

[Philly Q]

I think gwEm has an AV bridge/AIV neck Mule set in one of his Vs, presumably mahogany.  I'd like to try that, the AV bridge would give that little bit more punch and definition than AIV, but still with more mids than the Riff Raff.

You're correct Philly, and welcome to come and try it whenever you like.

Cheers gwEm!  :D   I'm thinking it might be the ideal combo to use when I humbucker-ize my LP Junior.