Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: mikey5 on September 01, 2008, 07:45:22 PM
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Rebel Yells, Crawlers, Holy Diver, or Cold sweat???? In my Les Paul Custom Whats better for hard rock through classic metal??? I play through an orange amplifier. Can the Rys and crawlers nail that metal tone or do they break up??
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Ok, well for a start... one thread does usually do for one question ;)
I have tried a Holy Diver in a LP custom, I don't think its quite what you want, very growly. Miracle men followed, and are smooth, and can do some classics quite well with the tuning of the volume knob.
I have heard that the CS will usually do well as a low powered ceramic, and I gather is classic (ceramic style anyway) voiced.
I am wanting to try a RY for the more 70s band sounds you mentioned though.
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But what about even higher gain stuff like Metallica? is the Cold Sweat still good for that? :D
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Miracle man does Metallica easily. Search Transcend's clips
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Yea I know the Miracle man can but I don't want something that high output. I want to be able to get the grind from a pedal. Would crawlers or cs pickups be ok??
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Look, instead of asking about bunch of pickups how about giving us a little information about what TONE you want? All BKPs are good and many are very versatile and sound good in les pauls, so it's really not about "which one is better for hard rock/metal". I've got Mules and Crawlers in my guitars and though the two sets are vastly different they are both great for all the styles I play, but in different ways.
What direction do you want to go over the stock pickups? Brighter, warmer, fatter, more/less grind more/less mids? Give as much info as you can. (and keep it in one thread, please)
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Brighter, warmer, fatter, more/less grind more/less mids?
I like that fat sound out of Gibson Paf pickups but Id like something hotter. Like a Paf on steroids Id like to get some good grind out of it for stuff like Master of Puppets highway star stuff, but without going overboard to something that is too high output. I just discovered the audio clips and have gone through those and I liked the sound of those two the best, hope they werent overly doctored up sounds, anyway good tones. I want something that is between a paf vintage sound and closer to a high output pickup. Something that growls nicely in overdrive and wails loudly in leads I want good mids too. Sorry about my posts I tried writing owners of pickups directly but they didn't respond. Thanks for answering its nice to have a forum to find out about stuff like this I guess that makes these pickups the best right
Mike
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recently i've been impressed just how high gain you can go with the cold sweat. you can do grindcore, br00talz etc etc with it quite easily.
'paf on steriods' is often used to describe the crawler.
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^That's the stuff I'm talking about!
Sounds like a Crawler set is right up your alley. The neck model is essentially a PAF wound a little hotter (7,6K alnico AIV) and the bridge has the vintage flavour but with enough output to sound plenty tight under gain, both for rythms and leads. "paf on steroids" describes it very well indeed. And you WILL hear the growl instantly when you plug it in.
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I am wanting to try a RY for the more 70s band sounds you mentioned though.
I found my Mules (and pig 90 actually) are better for 70s rock than the RY - its just too bloody 80s sounding for me!
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Ive tried Rebell Yells and Cold Sweats in my Les Paul Custom - The cold Sweats won hands down for me. I don't think the RY's are best suited to all mahogany guitars.
You can do pretty much most things with the sweats and the cleans are pretty damn good for a ceramic too.
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Like a Paf on steroids Id like to get some good grind out of it for stuff like Master of Puppets highway star stuff, but without going overboard to something that is too high output. I just discovered the audio clips and have gone through those and I liked the sound of those two the best, hope they werent overly doctored up sounds, anyway good tones. I want something that is between a paf vintage sound and closer to a high output pickup. Something that growls nicely in overdrive and wails loudly in leads I want good mids too.
cold sweat.
seriously.
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tnks
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cold sweat.
seriously.
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Why Cold Sweats over Crawler???
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I used to have a Crawler in my Les Paul std, 'PAF-on-steroids' describes it perfectly. I wanted something more true vintage so I now have Mules.
I have less experience with ceramic stuff as it never sounds right for classic rock stuff in the midrange whenever I've tried ceramic pickups.
The problem with what you want is that on one hand you want classic rock with fat midrange, then you want Metallica which is all scooped mids. Thats asking alot of any pickup imo - decide which you play more and err towards vintage or hot depending on what you play most.
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A lot of my customers use the Holydiver in their Gibsons and absolutely love it. The HDs are terrific in mahogany, great for leads, rhythm, and cleans. I think they're a little fuller sounding than Rebel Yells.
The Cold Sweat would be a great option if you like the tightness and supreme note definition associated with ceramics. Those work great in mahogany as well. Despite it's power and clarity, it's also very open and has nice cleans as well \m/
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A lot of my customers use the Holydiver in their Gibsons and absolutely love it. The HDs are terrific in mahogany, great for leads, rhythm, and cleans. I think they're a little fuller sounding than Rebel Yells.
The Cold Sweat would be a great option if you like the tightness and supreme note definition associated with ceramics. Those work great in mahogany as well. Despite it's power and clarity, it's also very open and has nice cleans as well \m/
Out of Curiosity what are the differences between the Cold sweat and Holy Diver and which one has that randy tone better? Most people up here think the best option is the crawler, and of course riff raff
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The problem with what you want is that on one hand you want classic rock with fat midrange, then you want Metallica which is all scooped mids. Thats asking alot of any pickup imo - decide which you play more and err towards vintage or hot depending on what you play most.
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I know I am so indecisive about this stuff. I have one Les Paul with alnico2 pickups which are quite fat vintage paf sounding, Yea I want something hotter for the custom les paul. People are talking about the crawlers being able to hold up to Metallica, Ozzy, Brootals type stuff so I might go with those. On the other hand the Cold Sweats seem vintage and modern so Its between those. I am glad to have a forum like this for people to answer my dumb questions.
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I think it also might not hurt to have a starting point for reference. I think I replaced my first pickup around when Vai signed with Ibanez, and I've probably owned 30 or 40 different pickups since then, and now I have my handful of favorites (Important Side Note: I use different pickups for different overall applications, there's no swiss army knife for tone) but even though I have my favorites, I'm still always finding out surprising things about what I want for myself in my own tone. I think that goes for everyone.
I'll get egged for my first suggestion, but if you have a paul and you like rock and metal, toss in a Gibson Dirty Fingers. It's what I've played forever, it's what I use for 90% of everything, from classic rock to 80s hair rock to prog metal to scoop metal. Another alternative is a Duncan Distortion.
Now that I'm dripping with egg yolks, I'll say why I pitched a couple non-BKP pups. They're not too expensive, and I think it will be really good to get a first respectable aftermarket pickup, so you can say, I like the Dirty Fingers, but I would like something warmer. Or cleaner. Or lower output. Or a little more scoopy. THEN, your favorite mates on the BKP board can suggest a dozen different things based entirely on your specific critique of your own tone.
I think you'll find over time you'll want a Nailbomb for metal, a Cold Sweat for Randy, and a Miracle Man for Ozzy and Black Label. And maybe mules for classic rock. Who knows. But you have to jump in some place, and no one pickup will do it all.
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I absolutely love my holy diver in les pauls and I see the crawler as its "blues brother"
I believe the crawler is in the gibson 498t ballpark (but apparently more middy), so I wouldn't choose it for what you're looking for
the cold sweat has a great mid crunch and treble attack that works awesome for 80's stuff
it's a very balanced pickup and has a lot of bite without going extreme
works great for early dio, whitesnake, early zakk, extreme, old metallica, accept, ratt, even early pantera
I actually use it for modern metal and I'm liking it better than the miracle man I had before
it doesn't steal or add bass or mids like some might think
it's a very flat pickup on these frequencies, just adding some brightness and crunch
sounds very punchy in my les paul, just not overbearing like the miracle man
the holy diver has about the same output, but it has a very fat and clean midrange, with smooth lead tone, more modern sounding
it's powerful and dominant, but not exactly crunchy
both are definitely my favorite bridge pickups
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I believe the crawler is in the gibson 498t ballpark (but apparently more middy),
Why do you think that? It is not by a long shot, in my experience. The 498T is ALL treble, the Crawler is bass and mids with reduced treble. So it's not just more middy, it is significantly fatter aswell. The power is similar and they both have A5 magnets, but EQ-wise they really couldn't be more different. But you're right about it being the blues brother of the Holy Diver, I think.
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So hang on the treble is important to me. Which one soars more in the treble (dont like thin sounds as some pickups sound higher and thinner) the cold sweat or Crawler? I want a pickup with good treble. I guess the only thing I can compare to is the tone of Randy Rhoads Les Paul I know I keep saying that but I guess that would mean the Cold Sweat right??And whatever can do randy tone can probably do Metallica right?? I guess one pickup cant do it all perfectly like the guy said about a pickup Swiss army knife
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^ No Randy's tone would be the Riff Raff as discussed in your other thread. ;) The Crawler has very smooth highs, Cold Sweat has much more bite due to the ceramic magnet. There's probably no pickup that will nail both Randy and Hetfield's tones as they are very different. Crawler will come close to Randy's tone, but not quite have the treble bite. You can play Metallica with a Crawler and make it sound great, but it does not do the scooped tone that Metallica is associated with. The Miracle Man would be bang on for the Metallica tone, but it wouldn't do the other things you described as well as other BKPs. Cold Sweat I think would be your happy medium.
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Thanks man your righteous
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I know this thread is prehistoric but....
I have the bridge RY, BD, tried the CS and now the Crawler in LP Standards and a R68 LP Custom into a Soldano SLO. The Crawler an CS were in the Custom and the style is hard rock with Steve Stevens flair.
CS was damn good but when soloing on high notes it was a bit bright.
Crawler is fuller, smoother and really nice when soloing but the low end is not as tight as the CS, BD, or RY.
It's similar to a RY but a bit smoother and less 'exciting' in the upper mids.
The Crawler low end is reminiscent of a Duncan Custom Custom but the pup has more clarity and dynamics than the Duncan.
I might go back to the stock Gibby pup for this guitar or perhaps try a Holy Diver.
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Jim ! Maybe Tim maybe able to make something for you. Seems like you have tried various BKPs on your custom(right?), with mixed results, you might be zeroing the sound that you want! So my guess would be talking to Tim if you haven't done it yet!! Good luck!!
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Maybe but I feel a bit like a douche not being able to hone in and make the right choice.
It's possible that this particular Les Paul is just not happening for my style since my other two LPs with RY and BD simply kick ass.
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Nahh! You are ok Jim !! Some instruments just get harder to tame. I guess the potential is there, Tim is known for being very patient, just exchange ideas and go back to the drawing board. Hey you might have the best tone waiting to happen!! Give it a try!
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a Custom LP was tough for me...mine is brighter than my Standards, no doubt....pots and caps do make a difference!I have an RS pot setup with Nailbombs and I am happy!I tired other pups, but it would have required 250-300kpots because of brightness-the hotter/darker output of the bonbs gave me that modern / vintage mix I was looking for-cleans up nicely, and has tightness/sqwuakkk for days..Sykes city with the ability to get ballsy clean-I like the clarity of the neck pup-plenty of treble/no mud-cuts real nice
I had tried Crawler,RY,HD, and Mules in the Custom....bombs are the bomb for me-check out any of the Chris George demos-nails the sound I have found!hey LULU!!!!!Happy Harvest Season!70 degrees and sunny in Alabama!OWWW!
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CS was damn good but when soloing on high notes it was a bit bright.
Makes me wonder if the Ceramic Nailbomb would be the right pickup for you. It's darker and thicker than the regular CS. Does your custom have an ebony fretboard? That would explain the brightness, as ebony emphasizes lows and highs. The middier and darker tonality of the C-bomb might suit very nicely..
-Zaned
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Yeah! What these two gentleman have said! Also those Rs pots work wonder having picked the right ones for your guitar, give them a call!!... Shaman....!! It's Always sunny in Alabama!!...HaHa!!
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You guys are so helpful.
Confession: my comments on the bridge Crawler were from playing at home.
Last night at rehearsal Crawlers was nicer and more impressive. Fat, not harsh, just enough push for the Soldano SLO (which needs very little at the front end to get screaming). Bass was a bit soft for the harder tunes so maybe I'll try the Nailbomb and Holy Diver for a more modern tone. I doubt that I want a super hot pup because I like to feel and hear the wood.
They really are like a fat PAF or PAF on steroids and for blues these would be a know brainer. In fact, we do just a few blues-rock covers (Crossroads, Roadnhouse Blues, Train Kept a Rollin) and the Crawler was damn good here.