Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: silentrage on October 31, 2008, 12:02:26 AM
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Hi guys:
I just put a C-pig 7 bridge and a CS 7 bridge into my kramer,
but I'm not getting the sounds I was expecting.
I'm 90% sure that it's not the pups fault though, because the natural tone sounds very nice, but as soon as the amp or pedal comes into the equation, things start to go down the cr@pper.
wanna help me diagnose the problem?
1. The new pups sound much thicker and fuller, but not much more distorted than the old pups, and it's pretty mild overall. Does higher DC resistance mean higher gain/distortion? Or am I understanding it completely wrong?
2. Maybe my amp just sucks? I have a calsbro GLX30, it's a 30 w with 2 10" speakers in it, it does have pretty weak distortion,a muddy low end and no punch, maybe I can't expect good pups to compensate for a bad amp?
3. When I turn on the MT2, it just sounds like ass, almost identical to the sounds I get from my old pups.
Is the MT-2 just a huge tone sucker or what?
Please give me some ideas on what I have to do to get the most out of these pups?
New amp, new pedal, or both?
The cleans sound pretty damn sweet though, so I guess I could take some solace in that while I figure out what to do with my stupid setup...
lastly, could bad wiring be to blame? I'm not getting any ground hums or anything, and the 3way works properly, so I don't know what could be off with it, but I'm not ruling out anything at this point.
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Great pickups through a cr@p amp won't give you good tone. cr@p pickups through a great amp will give you a decent tone. Great pickups through a great amp will give you great tone. :lol: Distortion pedals color the tone way too much for pickups to have much effect on tone, especially if the amp doesn't take pedals well.
Try your guitar through a decent tube amp before you go in messing with the wiring or anything like that. If you have a friend with a nice amp I'd try that or take your guitar to a shop and say you're "amp shopping".
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So I should sell the cr@p amp, the cr@p pedal and pickup a decent tube amp?
or "borrow" one from a friend perhaps?
I tried switching around the hot lead and ground wires on the output jack, but it didn't make any diff what so ever.
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I didn't mean to say your stuff was cr@p, I've never played a Carlsboro or an MT-2, I was just giving a few guidelines. I don't know how long you've been playing, but when I first started I had a cheap solid state amp with bad distortion so I tried a few distortion pedals. They helped a little bit but eventually I got a tube amp and cranked it loud. There's nothing like it(except maybe an AxeFX :shock:).
Try it out and hear for yourself!
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It's ok I've always suspected that my stuff was cr@p...
I think I will go "amp shopping" soon, is it possible to get a decent all tube amp for under $500?
Maybe I should take this to the amps forum?
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Maybe my amp just sucks? it does have pretty weak distortion,a muddy low end and no punch, maybe I can't expect good pups to compensate for a bad amp?
When I turn on the MT2, it just sounds like ass, almost identical to the sounds I get from my old pups.
Is the MT-2 just a huge tone sucker or what?
you already answered yourself.
twice.
:?
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Lol, maybe I should start listening to that voice in my head.
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One important thing: the Bare Knuckles can be very sensitive to the height! Be sure to take your time to tweak there..
EDIT: looking at your post count, you've probably seen that advice a couple of times before :lol:
Zaned
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I tried switching around the hot lead and ground wires on the output jack, but it didn't make any diff what so ever.
it should make a difference :? believe me, i think i did my output jack the wrong way on the first 10 guitars i wired... i'm a slow learner ;) the hot goes to the tip and the ground goes to the sleeve, any other way will produce nasty results.. there is only 1 right way for it to be!! if its not making a difference for you it may suggest a wiring problem somewhere else
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the mt2 is a very popular pedal. its not as bad as some make out, but its not the best and it does have the tendancy to make everything sound very similar when you use it. why not try some mods on it?
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Hi, :)
I wonder if there is an experienced BKP forum member in your area who could check out the wiring / pickup heights / and let you test through an amp more appropriate to your chosen style ?
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One important thing: the Bare Knuckles can be very sensitive to the height! Be sure to take your time to tweak there..
EDIT: looking at your post count, you've probably seen that advice a couple of times before :lol:
Zaned
Tim told me that too, so I've tried some height adjustments, and it does help.
I parked the pups like 1mm from the strings, and it's made the tone a bit more saturated and more to my liking, but it's not a very BIG difference.
I tried switching around the hot lead and ground wires on the output jack, but it didn't make any diff what so ever.
it should make a difference :? believe me, i think i did my output jack the wrong way on the first 10 guitars i wired... i'm a slow learner ;) the hot goes to the tip and the ground goes to the sleeve, any other way will produce nasty results.. there is only 1 right way for it to be!! if its not making a difference for you it may suggest a wiring problem somewhere else
Hmm, well I've done it 3 ways already.
The first time I soldered the hot lead wire to the ground, so there's a constant buzz when there's no signal, and when I play a note the buzz goes away until the sound fades.
I found a fault in the ground connection on the back of the volume pot, and once I fixed that, the ground buzz went away.
Then I had to switch the wires on the output, the volume was tiny before the switch, afterwards it was really loud.
I can't think of what else to fix, if you look at the pic I posted, the inside of my output jack is very difference from all the pics I've seen, there's just 3 straight legs, 2 short and 1 long.
I might switch around the wires on that some more and see if there's a difference, but it feels OK right now, the sound I mean.
Hi, :)
I wonder if there is an experienced BKP forum member in your area who could check out the wiring / pickup heights / and let you test through an amp more appropriate to your chosen style ?
Any BKPer in toronto?!?!!? Hello?~?~?~?
I could go "amp shopping" if I crack under the pressure, but I'm hoping to pick up a used 5150 or xxx from craig's list, I'm watching it like a hawk right now.
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Are you on www.sevenstring.org? I know there are a few people from Toronto there that are also probably familiar with BKPs. They probably have nice amps too, GAS runs rampant on that site!
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Not too much to add really, but from my own experience I know that some pieces of kit just don't work well together. A couple of examples, the first one is a bit extreme, but a Cpig (22K - bridge) can be played through a microcube and work (not great, but it works), where as a Nailbomb (16K - bridge) sounds truly bad. Even though the pig is higher output, the 'cube has more trouble handling the frequency balance of the Nailbomb.
Second example is a Fuzz Factory played into a Tiny Terror works really well, but played into the TT's big brother a Rockerverb50 doesn't sound as good even though the RV kicks the cr@p out of the TT for general quality of sound, the interaction just doesn't work as well.
From what you've said I'm guessing that's the problem you have, not necessarily that your kit is not up to it, it's just mis-matched.
1. The new pups sound much thicker and fuller, but not much more distorted than the old pups, and it's pretty mild overall. Does higher DC resistance mean higher gain/distortion? Or am I understanding it completely wrong?
As I understand it higher DC means higher output (more current) which in turn tends to mean your gear is driven harder and therefore you get more distortion. But the wind also has an impact, I've never done a direct test, but I suspect that a Nailbomb bridge will break up almost as quicky as a Cpig. (Gonna have to try that today).
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I can't think of what else to fix, if you look at the pic I posted, the inside of my output jack is very difference from all the pics I've seen, there's just 3 straight legs, 2 short and 1 long.
I might switch around the wires on that some more and see if there's a difference, but it feels OK right now, the sound I mean.
then you probably have it right now and that can be ruled out. Mono jacks have only 2 connections so you either have a signal or you have a loud buzzing like you described.. sounds like you have a stereo jack so an extra connection that should be unused unless you are using it to switch on any gizmo's like fret LED's
here is a picture of a normal jack and a stereo jack to confirm if this is what you have, i cant see a picture you have posted:
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/WezV/new/Switchcraft_Output_Jack_Detail.jpg)
obviously it could all be down to your amp and pedals but i think it would be a shame to go out and buy a nice new amp to find its still the guitar at fault
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(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/5075/wiring2az8.jpg)
there it is, the white stuff in the center is plastic.
It's hard to tell from this angle but 1 of those pins is longer, the other 2 seem equal in length.
As far as I can tell from testing, the longer piece is ground.
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ah yeah, barrel jacks!! always harder to tell whats what. do you have a multimeter. if so you can insert a lead and check for continuity between the tip of the lead and one of the lugs... that would confirm where hot wire should be. then do the same with the sleeve of the jack and the other lugs.
but tbh its probably ok now. your comment about swapping wires not making much difference to the sound makes more sense with this style of jack
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Should I be glad that the wiring's ok, or be pissed that I probably need a better rig now? /sigh
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the mt2 is a very popular pedal. its not as bad as some make out, but its not the best and it does have the tendancy to make everything sound very similar when you use it. why not try some mods on it?
hey gwEm, I was looking at 'em, and I liked what I heard about the monte allum's mod, even though I don't know what it does exactly.
I'm debating whether I should try it, or just sell my stuff and buy a proper amp. Cash is tight right now, so not a lot of wiggle room. Fcking north american economy!
Are you on www.sevenstring.org? I know there are a few people from Toronto there that are also probably familiar with BKPs. They probably have nice amps too, GAS runs rampant on that site!
Maybe I should pay them a visit. :)
Not too much to add really, but from my own experience I know that some pieces of kit just don't work well together. A couple of examples, the first one is a bit extreme, but a Cpig (22K - bridge) can be played through a microcube and work (not great, but it works), where as a Nailbomb (16K - bridge) sounds truly bad. Even though the pig is higher output, the 'cube has more trouble handling the frequency balance of the Nailbomb.
Second example is a Fuzz Factory played into a Tiny Terror works really well, but played into the TT's big brother a Rockerverb50 doesn't sound as good even though the RV kicks the cr@p out of the TT for general quality of sound, the interaction just doesn't work as well.
From what you've said I'm guessing that's the problem you have, not necessarily that your kit is not up to it, it's just mis-matched.
1. The new pups sound much thicker and fuller, but not much more distorted than the old pups, and it's pretty mild overall. Does higher DC resistance mean higher gain/distortion? Or am I understanding it completely wrong?
As I understand it higher DC means higher output (more current) which in turn tends to mean your gear is driven harder and therefore you get more distortion. But the wind also has an impact, I've never done a direct test, but I suspect that a Nailbomb bridge will break up almost as quicky as a Cpig. (Gonna have to try that today).
If it's a mis-matched gear issue, then I'm kinda $%&#ed, I don't have any other gear!!
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If it's a mis-matched gear issue, then I'm kinda $%&#ed, I don't have any other gear!!
Then I'll hope it isn't!
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i don't know quite a lot about what most of you are talking about, but in my opinion i'd completely forget about the pedal for now. your main concerns should be your amp and guitar, and then once you get them to your liking then i'd start playing around with pedals.
another thought, you originally stated that the pickup sounded much fuller and thicker, but not too much more distortion. i think you might just be expecting too much. i actually had the same exact problem as you. i bought my first bkp, plugged it in, and was like "well, this sounds exactly the same". i thought i had the wiring mixed up. the thing is, for me at least, there's not such an incredible difference that you'll immediately hear a dramatic difference. but now after i've had my new pickup for a while, it sounds so much better than my other guitars.
i know a lot of people on hear will tell you they immediately heard an incredible difference with their new pickup, but i think for some you just have to get used to it to appreciate it... especially when you don't have a lot of experience with difference equipment, like it sounds like is true for you.
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i don't know quite a lot about what most of you are talking about, but in my opinion i'd completely forget about the pedal for now. your main concerns should be your amp and guitar, and then once you get them to your liking then i'd start playing around with pedals.
another thought, you originally stated that the pickup sounded much fuller and thicker, but not too much more distortion. i think you might just be expecting too much. i actually had the same exact problem as you. i bought my first bkp, plugged it in, and was like "well, this sounds exactly the same". i thought i had the wiring mixed up. the thing is, for me at least, there's not such an incredible difference that you'll immediately hear a dramatic difference. but now after i've had my new pickup for a while, it sounds so much better than my other guitars.
i know a lot of people on hear will tell you they immediately heard an incredible difference with their new pickup, but i think for some you just have to get used to it to appreciate it... especially when you don't have a lot of experience with difference equipment, like it sounds like is true for you.
Words of wisdom my friend, words of wisdom.
I've started to notice the sound quality apart from saturation too, and the more I play with it, the more I'm liking what I hear.
You're right about the pedal too, it's on the bench until I get a proper amp.
I know I already asked this in the amps forum, but I figure it can't hurt.
Peavey 5150, XXX, Laney GH50L or Red Bear Mk 120 (JCM800 clone)? They're all within my budget, and I know this might be foolish, but I'll worry about a cab later, lol.
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Take your guitar and play it on a great amp and see if it makes a difference. I hate MT2 its so unmusical
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Sr try different amps at any music store, bring your guitar. Fancy amps, the whole thing. That way you eliminate any other problem, ie guitar conection, etc. Good luck!