Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: elijen on December 09, 2008, 04:54:16 PM
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Hi guys!
I stumbled upon this forum while I was looking for the answer to the question: “what the hell are BKPs that Chris Broderick uses?” Anyway, I’ve seen that people posting here usually know their stuff and answer seriously, so I thought to ask a totally nOOb question. :)
- What type of guitar would you recommend to an absolute beginner?
I’m 29 and have never tried to learn to play before. I’ve got a lot of friends that play, some are even professional musicians. But when I ask them what should I take as my first six string, I get different answers. Some say take classical as it is easiest to press the strings, some say acoustic because of the narrower neck… I ignore suggestions for the electric ‘cause I simply do not want to have the hassle with the equipment, until I’ll know for certain that I possess at least some talent.
So, how did you start? What should I get? Any other advice?
...please be so kind and help me out... :D
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Welcome!
You're in a very lucky position - there's more stuff out there at more reasonable prices than ever before.
What kinda stuff are you in to?
Mark.
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Personally, I think a nylon-stringed acoustic is a great place to start (and continue!). I wouldn't say the neck is thin, and the action (string height above fretboard) is high, which really helps with technique if you later on move to an electric guitar.
The other thing I'd say is don't be afraid of getting a cheap electric guitar to learn on, either. You don't need to spend a fortune on gear (until you decide that you want to, then it's no turning back!).
And welcome to the forum!
Roo
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Welcome!
You're in a very lucky position - there's more stuff out there at more reasonable prices than ever before.
What kinda stuff are you in to?
Mark.
Hi there!
Well anything from rock to metal interests me. Hard to say exactly... I've been through some bands as a vocalist. I guess I want to expand, be a capable second guitar.
My favourite bands at the moment: Alter Bridge, Stone Sour, Megadeth...
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If you're into those bands, you want an electric. Equipment wise you only need a small practice amp at first.
Get something with double cutaways with humbuckers (or at least a bridge humbucker) and for a beginner I'd say a fixed bridge (restringing a floating trem could be enough to make you jack it all in).
On a general note I'd say get what you can afford. If you get something reasonable (in the £200+ range) and look after it, if things don't work out you can sell it and probably lose less than if you bought some sub £100 noname piece of plywood.
As someone said, the entry level instruments are way better now than when I started playing, and you can get a very playable guitar for £200, and some decent amps for £60-80.
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I'd look in some second hand shops like cash converters. They always have guitars in. Look for a low action.
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Thanx for the reply Roo and Sifu Ben + JM
Well the thing is... I could get my hands on a friend's nylon string that has been collecting dust for years. It's not a bad guitar either, an entry level Alhambra. and the beautiful part - it's free.
The other issue... equipment here in Croatia doesn't come cheap (due to taxes and a BS excuse for a financial policy), so if I opt for the electric, I'd have to choose wisely so I' ll be able to sell it afterward with minimum loss.
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Here's some options
http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/74573
http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/f-100-fm/12869
http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/h-50/66318
http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/74234
http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/75433
http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/75090
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i agree with sifu... in my opinion it's way better to buy a cheap electric and a cheap amp than to try to make every step from nylon to steel to electric... i've never considered nylon stringed guitars as steps in the same path of the electric, and steel stringed acoustics are half-electrics just if you play them in the wrong way... acoustic guitar is a completely different league in my opinion. you can later discover the pleasure of acoustic instruments, but if you can't really play the will be extremely frustrating to start with.
personally i began to play "seriously" (ehm...) when i bought my first electric, because it was what i was long dreaming to play, and everything else was just surrogate.
if you want to practice in your room, have fun, playing on your favourite records and learn how to use the tonal possibilities of an e-guitar you should buy some modeling equipment (personally i hate it but v-amp is very, VERY affordable, and you could even find it used) and care nothing about pedals, amps and various technical tricks but still begin to learn something about the way the sound is modulated, distorted and amplified in a chain of gear... this will be very useful if you want to continue playing.
a cheap amp can let you rehearse with your friends, but this will come later anyway... and cheap (very cheap) amps can be quite frustrating because you will hardly get a sound you'll like, and you will end thinking that's all because of your awful playing!
so... i'd go for a cheap ibanez (best value) and a cheap amp modeller. now you can...
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eheheh... i could tell you to cross the border and buy some gear in italy, but here you won't find much better deals! :)
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Take the free classical to learn on, see if you like playing - but they are a bitch to strum on due to the floppy strings. After a while you'll know if you want an electric. Yam Pacificas are great starter guitars and Roland microcubes serve as good first amps.
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The other issue... equipment here in Croatia doesn't come cheap (due to taxes and a BS excuse for a financial policy), so if I opt for the electric, I'd have to choose wisely so I' ll be able to sell it afterward with minimum loss.
Croatia's part of the EU, and therefore surely bound by the Customs Union agrements. You should be able to order from someone like Thomann, get free delivery and pay no additional taxes.
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Yeah, I think I'll take that nylon-string and start saving for a nice beginner electric. If I make any progress with the classical, I'll move to something more suitable for my taste :)
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The other issue... equipment here in Croatia doesn't come cheap (due to taxes and a BS excuse for a financial policy), so if I opt for the electric, I'd have to choose wisely so I' ll be able to sell it afterward with minimum loss.
Croatia's part of the EU, and therefore surely bound by the Customs Union agrements. You should be able to order from someone like Thomann, get free delivery and pay no additional taxes.
God bless you :D
But no, we are not part of the EU, not yet... :(
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Roland Cube?
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The other issue... equipment here in Croatia doesn't come cheap (due to taxes and a BS excuse for a financial policy), so if I opt for the electric, I'd have to choose wisely so I' ll be able to sell it afterward with minimum loss.
Croatia's part of the EU, and therefore surely bound by the Customs Union agrements. You should be able to order from someone like Thomann, get free delivery and pay no additional taxes.
God bless you :D
But no, we are not part of the EU, not yet... :(
You were scheduled to enter last year, what happened?
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negotiations are taking place. the EU is extra careful with accepting new members, Bulgaria and Romania made sure of that. i guess we will eventually :)
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Roland Cube?
that would be my choice, once I switch to electric. I think I'll go for Ibanez. Guys that distribute Ibanez here (they do PRS and ENGL also) are extra nice even when you bore them with all sorts of questions and have a great repair and service team (so I am told)
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i'd definitely say if you want to play electric, start on electric. you might as well be able to play what you want, it'll keep you interested. something like a yamaha pacifica 112v (assuming you want a range of sounds) coupled with a roland microcube/cube 30x or vox valvetronix ad15vt/da5 (the former amp for more hard rock/metal sounds, the latter for more cleans, blues, classic rock etc.) would be a nice starter setup which doesn't cost *that* much money. :)
EDIT: i'd also be wary of buying second-hand or online if you're a new player, unless you trust those friends of yours to help you with setups, restringing etc. if you buy in a local shop, you can go back in for help if you mess up on restringing etc., which is much harder to do if you haven't bought from them. :)
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You're pretty much sorted, Dave is good at newbie gear (not to say he's a newbie though)
The Yamaha Pacifica is good, if you want to go for Ibanez, don't go for the cr@ppy Edge III tremolos. I'd go for a fixed bridge SA series or the RGR321EX, or the RGT6EXFX which has EMGs already but it's £500+ I think.
(http://www.ibanez.co.jp/products/images/eg2008/RGR321EX_BK_1P_02.gif)
(http://www.ibanez.co.jp/products/images/eg2008/RG321MH_RB_1P_03.gif)
(http://www.ibanez.co.jp/products/images/eg2008/RGT6EXFX_BK_1M_02.gif)
(http://www.ibanez.co.jp/products/images/eg2008/SAS32EX_BK_27_01.gif)
(http://www.ibanez.co.jp/products/images/eg2008/SA120EX_SV_27_01.gif)
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actually newbie gear is probably where i know the least... :lol: (not that i know much about the rest either :oops: )
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Thank you all far your help. I guess I'll get me some newbie electric gear. 8)
I do not have much time now, but next week I'll browse around for my new six string. :D
Cheers guys...
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All the above is sound advice!
I'd go for a Yamaha Pacifica 112 or a Schecter Blackjack and a Roland Cube or a Peavey Vypyr. You'll be off to a flying start. After that get some chord books, and some basic scales books, aswell as a tuner, some leads, some picks, and a couple of spare packets of strings.
If there's ANYTHING you need help with, just post here and someone will give you solid instructions, and probably pics etc to help you out.
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Take the free classical to learn on, see if you like playing - but they are a bitch to strum on due to the floppy strings. After a while you'll know if you want an electric. Yam Pacificas are great starter guitars and Roland microcubes serve as good first amps.
From what I hear, Elliot has hit the nail on the head there. As people have already said though, go for an electric and nice little amp for your tastes, as you can soon approximate the music you love that way, which is most gratifying and motivational . As was also mentioned, There has never been a better time to get affordable stuff that is really easy to play.
I mostly wanted to say welcome to the forum - and of course welcome to this most worthy and enjoyable of instruments . You can take a whole lifetime and never get absolutely perfect, so enjoy the journey of learning and let the results take care of themselves.
Enjoy ! :D
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Thank you noodle and Fourth Feline.
I was worried that my newbie question would not get responses. But I've been lurking here for a couple of months so I know that people on this forum are helpful.
About the amp; I am leaning towards the Vox option. It would give me more sounds, and I am certain a can get a distortion pedal from some of my friends for practicing purposes till I get my own some day.
About the guitar: I've been browsing online the inventory of some stores in my vicinity.
I've got LTDs (EC-50, EC-100, Viper 50, H-51, Viper 200, Viper 400, EC-400, EC-500); they are on discount this month.
Ibenez (RGR321EX, RG321MH, SZ320, SZ520).
noodle mentioned Schecter Blackjack. I see they are awesomely loaded with tonepros and SD pickups. Not so cheap though. But honestly, I could pull it off (with a couple of installments and bye-bye nikkor lens :)) if you think it is okay for a beginner. While we are talking that kind of cash, there are also SEs by PRS around for a bit less.
As I said, I'll check them all out next week, see how they feel in my hands, check for sharp edges and sloppy workmanship, etc...
Any pointers? What to avoid? What to look for?
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If you've never played before maybe a steel strung acoustic is the way forward to start? Good for practising your hand shaping for chords and will be gratifying early on when it starts to come together.
You could go straight to an electric - fender squier package with amp or something like that. But just be aware that early on you will not sound as good on an electric as an acoustic as palm muting and other subtle techniques that no-one ever talks about make all the difference to the sound. It won't hold you back going straight to electric but it will take more patience to get good sounds
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just an advice... avoid floating bridges AS HELL ITSELF... for a small price you usually get almost unusable pieces of iron, which are very difficult to restring and tune indeed...
go for a fixed or traditional tremolo bridge. and if you can't rely on the whammy bar to modulate notes it will help you develope bending and vibrato tecniques... beginners often use too much the bar to "mask" embarassingly flat notes!
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Well the thing is... I could get my hands on a friend's nylon string that has been collecting dust for years. It's not a bad guitar either, an entry level Alhambra. and the beautiful part - it's free.
That sounds perfect. Just get any old guitar to keep you interested until you get your own. I used a free nylon string classical for years before getting anything else. Play around for a bit and if you think that it's for you then you'll ahve a good idea by then what sort of guitar you want.
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If you've never played before maybe a steel strung acoustic is the way forward to start? Good for practising your hand shaping for chords and will be gratifying early on when it starts to come together.
You could go straight to an electric - fender squier package with amp or something like that. But just be aware that early on you will not sound as good on an electric as an acoustic as palm muting and other subtle techniques that no-one ever talks about make all the difference to the sound. It won't hold you back going straight to electric but it will take more patience to get good sounds
Because a steel sting acoustic doesn't highlight every single little flaw in your technique :roll:
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The other issue... equipment here in Croatia doesn't come cheap (due to taxes and a BS excuse for a financial policy), so if I opt for the electric, I'd have to choose wisely so I' ll be able to sell it afterward with minimum loss.
Croatia's part of the EU, and therefore surely bound by the Customs Union agrements. You should be able to order from someone like Thomann, get free delivery and pay no additional taxes.
Since when?
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We already had that discussion.
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Thank you noodle and Fourth Feline.
I was worried that my newbie question would not get responses. But I've been lurking here for a couple of months so I know that people on this forum are helpful.
About the amp; I am leaning towards the Vox option. It would give me more sounds, and I am certain a can get a distortion pedal from some of my friends for practicing purposes till I get my own some day.
About the guitar: I've been browsing online the inventory of some stores in my vicinity.
I've got LTDs (EC-50, EC-100, Viper 50, H-51, Viper 200, Viper 400, EC-400, EC-500); they are on discount this month.
Ibenez (RGR321EX, RG321MH, SZ320, SZ520).
noodle mentioned Schecter Blackjack. I see they are awesomely loaded with tonepros and SD pickups. Not so cheap though. But honestly, I could pull it off (with a couple of installments and bye-bye nikkor lens :)) if you think it is okay for a beginner. While we are talking that kind of cash, there are also SEs by PRS around for a bit less.
As I said, I'll check them all out next week, see how they feel in my hands, check for sharp edges and sloppy workmanship, etc...
Any pointers? What to avoid? What to look for?
I think I mistook Blackjack for Blackhawk, the much cheaper version haha. Both are great guitars for their price range. How much you spend is up to you, but it depends how comitted you are, don't spend alot of money if you feel you might stop within 6 months of starting.
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Yes, let's keep it on-topic. Though i can't wait to be in a position to get stuff sans really high customs.
@Sifu Ben - So you are saying that flaws in someones playing are definitely more apparent on acoustics?
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Yes, let's keep it on-topic. Though i can't wait to be in a position to get stuff sans really high customs.
@Sifu Ben - So you are saying that flaws in someones playing are definitely more apparent on acoustics?
I'd have thought more so on Electrics, which is a good thing. Means you'll get better quicker, as there are mistakes will be easily spotted and corrected. Ofcourse if you add lots of distortion, it gets more and more easy to hide mistakes, hence alot of new players PILING on gain.
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@noodle ... thought so :D
I am planing to get my gear in a week or so. I do not want to spend much, you mentioned the reason. The only thing is, I can't decide whether to go for the cheapest option, or should I spend a little extra and get something like the RG mentioned. I am concerned quality wise, any horrible experiences with EC-50?
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Nah, distortion covers MANY sins, although controlling distortion is a skill in and of itself. If your fretting is the tiniest bit off on an acoustic it REALLY shows. The flip side of that is that the subtleties of extended chord voicings are more apparent on an acoustic.
Also from an enjoyment point of view, bashing out powerchords just isn't the same on an acoustic.
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(admittingly I haven't read the whole thread...) but I'd always go for something cheapish. My first guitar was an incredibly bad kiddies acoustic (I was 16) and I mashed that up learning how to hit and press the strings properly, and also any guitar I touched after that not only sounded better but felt easier to play! I still have an acoustic with a bad action for practice... so, erm, cheap, and then there's loads of room for upgading (when you get that urge :P) and if it doesn't work out you haven't spent that much....?
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Nah, distortion covers MANY sins, although controlling distortion is a skill in and of itself. If your fretting is the tiniest bit off on an acoustic it REALLY shows. The flip side of that is that the subtleties of extended chord voicings are more apparent on an acoustic.
Also from an enjoyment point of view, bashing out powerchords just isn't the same on an acoustic.
A clean electric on bridge pickup is going to show many more mistakes than the mellow tone of an acoustic, imo. Though its easier to make the mistakes on an acoustic.. Simply cos they're harder to play imo...