Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Spitfire on January 04, 2009, 04:25:44 PM
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metal was so much better when people used what was avaliable to them to shape their own sound.. it seems to me that everything that has been designed to be used in metal has bad tone, its all about looks or being extreme.
the best metal tones for me came from modded marshals and mesa boogie mark series amps, not the 5150s and krankenstiens or "metal" effects pedals
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Mesa Rectifiers seem to have done OK...
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Mesa Rectifiers seem to have done OK...
Thats true but nearly every guitarist who uses them has a very similar tone.
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Mesa Rectifiers seem to have done OK...
Thats true but nearly every guitarist who uses them has a very similar tone.
To me Mesa Rectos are no good for metal :/
They're just too big and flubby. Mesas sound good for American style "Rock", but most styles of metal require a tighter sound don't they?
Some metal amps sound good to me (Framus Cobra, Bogner Uberschall?), and some metal pickups sound good too (Warpig, Nailbomb?), but yeah mainly I'd have to agree with you.
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Mesa Rectifiers seem to have done OK...
Thats true but nearly every guitarist who uses them has a very similar tone.
To me Mesa Rectos are no good for metal :/
They're just too big and flubby. Mesas sound good for American style "Rock", but most styles of metal require a tighter sound don't they?
Some metal amps sound good to me (Framus Cobra, Bogner Uberschall?), and some metal pickups sound good too (Warpig, Nailbomb?), but yeah mainly I'd have to agree with you.
Not sure that's true Indy. I mean Metallica used them for years, plus Daron Malakian from SOAD uses/used them plus a lot more.
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Yes, quite a few things. The problem is companies giving you 'metal tones' in a stomp box but sound completely useless and harsh. Or guitar companies make a guitar that looks like it would fit in a metal band, but sound terrible (BC Rich for the past 10 years).
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this thread raises an interesting point. usually stuff marketed directly at the metal market tends to be a bit gimmicky and low-end... eg Boss Metalzone etc etc. Its true you don't need that stuff to get a metal tone.. I mean, you can easily be metal with a plexi style marshall or whatever.
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Mesa Rectifiers seem to have done OK...
Thats true but nearly every guitarist who uses them has a very similar tone.
To me Mesa Rectos are no good for metal :/
They're just too big and flubby. Mesas sound good for American style "Rock", but most styles of metal require a tighter sound don't they?
Some metal amps sound good to me (Framus Cobra, Bogner Uberschall?), and some metal pickups sound good too (Warpig, Nailbomb?), but yeah mainly I'd have to agree with you.
Not sure that's true Indy. I mean Metallica used them for years, plus Daron Malakian from SOAD uses/used them plus a lot more.
And they all sound like bum. :P
No you're right - a lot of metal players use them, but personally whenever i hear a recto in a metal context it makes my ears sad and I start imagining what the track would sound like with another amp...
I just think they're suited better to Foo Fighters style america-rock.
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Mesa Rectifiers seem to have done OK...
Thats true but nearly every guitarist who uses them has a very similar tone.
To me Mesa Rectos are no good for metal :/
They're just too big and flubby. Mesas sound good for American style "Rock", but most styles of metal require a tighter sound don't they?
Some metal amps sound good to me (Framus Cobra, Bogner Uberschall?), and some metal pickups sound good too (Warpig, Nailbomb?), but yeah mainly I'd have to agree with you.
Not sure that's true Indy. I mean Metallica used them for years, plus Daron Malakian from SOAD uses/used them plus a lot more.
But let's be honest, when Metallica were using Rectos a lot in the studio, they were playing rock music, not metal. And SOAD are chock full of standard, rotten nu-metal tones.
I'd completely agree with Indysmith, Rectos say modern mainstream US rock, to me.
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hahaha rectifiers were designed to play grunge just as grunge was dying out. Mesa got lucky when some heavier players discovered they could be used for metal. And yes, they are great for metal. Look at bands like Skinless, cannibal corpse, satyricon... they all use rectifiers, and are definately NOT rock. Not all metal is tight technical stuff.
5150 was designed for van halen, but pulls off AMAZING metal tones. It is a metal workhorse.
bands like Between the Buried and Me, Splatterhouse, Dark Tranquillity, In Flames, Dismember, and Necrophagist all use the 5150 pretty consistently.
Now for ams that have been designed for metal: Engl Powerball, Engl Invader, Engl SE, Engl Savage.... hell even the Engl Blackmore can do metal, and they all sound awesome doing it.
Vader uses powerballs, and SE's, dimmu borgir uses savages and SE's, Zyklon uses powerballs and Savages... cannibal corpse even recently added a powerball to their mix.
Also, the framus cobra is CLEARLY a metal amp, and definately pulls off the oldschool brutal, as well as any new tight and technical stuff.
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hahaha rectifiers were designed to play grunge just as grunge was dying out. Mesa got lucky when some heavier players discovered they could be used for metal. And yes, they are great for metal. Look at bands like Skinless, cannibal corpse, satyricon... they all use rectifiers, and are definately NOT rock. Not all metal is tight technical stuff.
To be fair, Satyricon are pretty much a rock band now, albiet with more aggressive vocals - ever since they decided to be a black metal version of Entombed's modern tripe - plus still have pretty horrid guitar sounds. Then Skinless and Cannibal Corpse aren't exactly awash with awesome tones :lol:
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Mesa Rectifiers seem to have done OK...
Thats true but nearly every guitarist who uses them has a very similar tone.
To me Mesa Rectos are no good for metal :/
They're just too big and flubby. Mesas sound good for American style "Rock", but most styles of metal require a tighter sound don't they?
Some metal amps sound good to me (Framus Cobra, Bogner Uberschall?), and some metal pickups sound good too (Warpig, Nailbomb?), but yeah mainly I'd have to agree with you.
Not sure that's true Indy. I mean Metallica used them for years, plus Daron Malakian from SOAD uses/used them plus a lot more.
But let's be honest, when Metallica were using Rectos a lot in the studio, they were playing rock music, not metal. And SOAD are chock full of standard, rotten nu-metal tones.
I'd completely agree with Johnny Mac, Rectos say modern mainstream US rock, to me.
Well it's the what defines metal thing isn't it. They're metal bands to my ears. Could be my age playing a part here :)
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Diezels are amazing amps and mainly metal amps. Although they can cover alot of sounds
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hahaha rectifiers were designed to play grunge just as grunge was dying out. Mesa got lucky when some heavier players discovered they could be used for metal. And yes, they are great for metal. Look at bands like Skinless, cannibal corpse, satyricon... they all use rectifiers, and are definately NOT rock. Not all metal is tight technical stuff.
To be fair, Satyricon are pretty much a rock band now, albiet with more aggressive vocals - ever since they decided to be a black metal version of Entombed's modern tripe - plus still have pretty horrid guitar sounds. Then Skinless and Cannibal Corpse aren't exactly awash with awesome tones :lol:
I don't know what satyricon you've been listening to, but i have the latest 3 albums and they are nowhere near what i would consider rock.
What are awesome tones? and what are bad tones?
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What are awesome tones? and what are bad tones?
Subjective.
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What are awesome tones? and what are bad tones?
Subjective.
snap. thats what had i hoped you'd say :D
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What are awesome tones? and what are bad tones?
Subjective.
snap. thats what had i hoped you'd say :D
:wink:
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Rectifiers are win for metal.
All the old thrash bands who are coming out with new releases use them and it sounds brutal.
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depends on the piece of kit, if it's stuff made for the kids where looks etc. are more important or if it's actually pro quality stuff...
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hahaha rectifiers were designed to play grunge just as grunge was dying out. Mesa got lucky when some heavier players discovered they could be used for metal. And yes, they are great for metal. Look at bands like Skinless, cannibal corpse, satyricon... they all use rectifiers, and are definately NOT rock. Not all metal is tight technical stuff.
To be fair, Satyricon are pretty much a rock band now, albiet with more aggressive vocals - ever since they decided to be a black metal version of Entombed's modern tripe - plus still have pretty horrid guitar sounds. Then Skinless and Cannibal Corpse aren't exactly awash with awesome tones :lol:
I really like the tones on Cannibal Corpse's KILL album. 6FU have used Rectos too and their tones are pretty meaty.
Do Satyricon use Rectos now? I saw them on the Now Diabolical tour and it was 5150s - the records sounds like 5150s too.
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this thread raises an interesting point. usually stuff marketed directly at the metal market tends to be a bit gimmicky and low-end... eg Boss Metalzone etc etc. Its true you don't need that stuff to get a metal tone.. I mean, you can easily be metal with a plexi style marshall or whatever.
I think you raise a good point there. I have the same impression, metal stuff is often aimed at the beginner/younger end of the market and there is a lot of plastic bling involved.
I sometimes think that when I read Total Guitar magazine compared to Guitarist, that the price/quality of gear differs a lot in both.
On the other hand, there is also high end stuff aiming at metal, like Caparison guitars, Diamond/Diezel etc amps and so on.
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:? i wish rectos, diezels, engl and bogners were really this low-end... :P
anyway it's a matter of tastes, darkthrone pull very brutal tones out of cr@ppy equipment... cr@ppy brutal tones, i'd say, but heavy as hell... :)
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Short answer, No.
Long answer, Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
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Rectifiers are win for metal.
All the old thrash bands who are coming out with new releases use them and it sounds brutal.
Well, not all...
Testament - JVMs.
Metallica - Diezels.
And on the actual subject of the thread...
Cheap metal stuff is shite.
Expensive metal stuff is good.
Isn't that the same with everything on the market?
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notice though. you dont REALLY get stuff aimed at indie or blues guitar players specifically.
most FX companies make some sort of distortion effect called "t3h heavi br00talz kvlt overdrive!!!!11!!!' but you dont really get the 'indie topshop music pap in a box' pedal or the '1950's old black blues man' pedal...
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notice though. you dont REALLY get stuff aimed at indie or blues guitar players specifically.
most FX companies make some sort of distortion effect called "t3h heavi br00talz kvlt overdrive!!!!11!!!' but you dont really get the 'indie topshop music pap in a box' pedal or the '1950's old black blues man' pedal...
i think theres quite a few blues oriented products - for example boss blues driver. probably less than metal though
i don't know too much about indie musicians. but don't they usually have quite a traditional tone, which they might layer with way out effects? also we've all heard of the 'indie' guitar line.
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on the actual subject of the thread...
Cheap metal stuff is shitee.
Expensive metal stuff is good.
Isn't that the same with everything on the market?
+1
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Rectifiers are win for metal.
All the old thrash bands who are coming out with new releases use them and it sounds brutal.
Well, not all...
Testament - JVMs.
Metallica - Diezels.
And on the actual subject of the thread...
Cheap metal stuff is shitee.
Expensive metal stuff is good.
Isn't that the same with everything on the market?
I was referring more to Exodus and Death Angel etc.
Destruction and Kreator use 5150's (i think)
I don't really count Metallica.
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notice though. you dont REALLY get stuff aimed at indie or blues guitar players specifically.
most FX companies make some sort of distortion effect called "t3h heavi br00talz kvlt overdrive!!!!11!!!' but you dont really get the 'indie topshop music pap in a box' pedal or the '1950's old black blues man' pedal...
i think theres quite a few blues oriented products - for example boss blues driver. probably less than metal though
i don't know too much about indie musicians. but don't they usually have quite a traditional tone, which they might layer with way out effects? also we've all heard of the 'indie' guitar line.
Indie guitars refers to being an independant company tho doesn't it? Rather than 'indie'.
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I can only think of some decent pickups and guitars aimed at metal players. I can't think of any FX or amps.
When I first heard a Dual Recto live, I was impressed but everyone sounds the same through one. Metallica's best tones came from a MarkIV, 50/50 and Marshalls. Their recto live tones sucked and their new Diezel sound sucks even more.
The best metal tones I ever produced came from a Fender amp and cab with a good Marshall style tube pedal.
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5150 is just a great amp.
I personally dislike people thinking too much in labels. Just use what works best for you. Among products aimed at "METAL" (whatever that is) there is a vast difference in actual sound and performance anyway.
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notice though. you dont REALLY get stuff aimed at indie or blues guitar players specifically.
most FX companies make some sort of distortion effect called "t3h heavi br00talz kvlt overdrive!!!!11!!!' but you dont really get the 'indie topshop music pap in a box' pedal or the '1950's old black blues man' pedal...
Boss Blues Driver
MI Audio Blues boy
MI Audio Blues Pro
DigiTech Screamin Blues
Behringer Blues overdrive
Marshall Bluesbraker (pedal)
Roger Mayer Voodoo Blues
Blues Deluxe
Blues Deville
Blues Junior
Marshall Bluesbraker
To name a few! I think most companies have metal and blues products......
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5150 is just a great amp.
+1
:)
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Destruction and Kreator use 5150's (i think)
No idea what's on their records, but Kreator specify Triple Recs on their backline requirements.
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notice though. you dont REALLY get stuff aimed at indie or blues guitar players specifically.
most FX companies make some sort of distortion effect called "t3h heavi br00talz kvlt overdrive!!!!11!!!' but you dont really get the 'indie topshop music pap in a box' pedal or the '1950's old black blues man' pedal...
Boss Blues Driver
MI Audio Blues boy
MI Audio Blues Pro
DigiTech Screamin Blues
Behringer Blues overdrive
Marshall Bluesbraker (pedal)
Roger Mayer Voodoo Blues
Blues Deluxe
Blues Deville
Blues Junior
Marshall Bluesbraker
To name a few! I think most companies have metal and blues products......
I wouldn't say that the Fender amps are aimed squarely at blues players though, IIRC there is nothing in there blurb or adverts which states 'for the ultimate in old, one legged blind, chicago delta, old black man blues....etc'
I dunno, I don't even bother reading any of the magazines anymore.
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i think that almost every product with names such as "MEGAMETAL BAZTARD NEKRODISTORDESTRUKTOR" are aimed just to kids looking for those BIG and grinding tones they listen on CDs, but keep getting a buzzing swarm of mosquitoes every time... and often they happen to like it! let's tell the truth... we've all been teenagers... who can seriously say to have NEVER scooped mids on a transistor amp with a transistor distortion pedal to try to sound more evil? for sure i did, but those old good times are gone forever... :)
metal oriented guitars are a different league... not only BC rich (with it's ridiculous shapes), but also Jackson, Dean, ESP and many other good or excellent brands (i listed them strictly in order of liking) focus on models with a sort of "metalhead appeal", and they make great guitars too!
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and i agree... 5150 is a great amp! if only i bought it when a friend of mine was selling his one... :(
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I think we're getting closer to the truth.
I worked in shops selling guitars for 4 years or so. In terms of youngsters spending money, 90% of them were kids in Metallica/Maiden/Kerrang band of the week t shirts. So obviously brands make products aimed at them. And kids like cool names and cool looks and flashing lights and things that make them sound a bit like their favourite records at very low volume. And cheap prices.
So basically I think there are more products aimed specifically at metal than specifically at any other genre, and a huge percentage of them are garbage, but that's because the majority of those products are aimed at kids who are buying gear with pocket money or birthday money or whatever and not with the discerning, experienced player/buyer in mind.
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The best metal tones I ever produced came from a Fender amp and cab with a good Marshall style tube pedal.
Hummm could you give more details? :D
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WTF?
Engls - various
BK - Lots
Diezel - VH4 and herbert
Bogner Uberschall
EMGs (Yes, I said it)
jackson, Ibanez, ESP et al
My legra
Blackmachines
Dude, its a long, long list. Kranks?!?!?! Youre looking in the wrong place mate!
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because by the time your 30 you've grown out of metal and bought a prs custom 24 and a cornford hurricane and a bunch of boutique pedals or something to that effect.
on a serious note there is some fantastic metal gear out there it's just hard to find for instance the DINO939 by Larry Amplification is probably the most amazing highgain amp on the planet but who has heard of it? well if u've heard any iced earth records u've heard one being played.
Roccaforte and Splawn are well respected in the metal genre although I think the transformers Roccaforte uses make his amps overly bright and sterile, and Splawns pre-amp gain has a low end cut off that makes the entire amp feel thin when you're playing it live, it's great for tightness but theres no fat chunk, just my opinion though.
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not forgetting these babies, they're pretty much designed for metal and do it very well:
Cold Sweat
Miracle Man
Nailbomb
Painkiller
Warpig
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The best metal tones I ever produced came from a Fender amp and cab with a good Marshall style tube pedal.
Hummm could you give more details? :D
Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, 2X12 Band Master cab with Jensen C12N's, Hughes & Kettner Tube factor pedal.
I used this setup for the clips for Crawlers and Warpig. Not shure if they're still around.
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Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, 2X12 Band Master cab with Jensen C12N's, Hughes & Kettner Tube factor pedal.
I used this setup for the clips for Crawlers and Warpig. Not shure if they're still around.
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=469.0
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1228.0
(http://216.211.140.132/Smileys/Lots_O_Smileys/icon_thumright.gif)
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Destruction and Kreator use 5150's (i think)
No idea what's on their records, but Kreator specify Triple Recs on their backline requirements.
Well there we go, another Recto thrash user.
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metal oriented guitars are a different league... not only BC rich (with it's ridiculous shapes), but also Jackson, Dean, ESP and many other good or excellent brands (i listed them strictly in order of liking) focus on models with a sort of "metalhead appeal", and they make great guitars too!
Out of interest, does this mean you rate Deans above ESPs?
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metal oriented guitars are a different league... not only BC rich (with it's ridiculous shapes), but also Jackson, Dean, ESP and many other good or excellent brands (i listed them strictly in order of liking) focus on models with a sort of "metalhead appeal", and they make great guitars too!
Out of interest, does this mean you rate Deans above ESPs?
I do. By far.
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I would agree. Overwhelmingly. I'd pop them above Jacksons too, though I've never actually played that many high end Jacksons so it's not a particularly fair comparison.
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WTF?
Engls - various
BK - Lots
Diezel - VH4 and herbert
Bogner Uberschall
EMGs (Yes, I said it)
jackson, Ibanez, ESP et al
My legra
Blackmachines
Dude, its a long, long list. Kranks?!?!?! Youre looking in the wrong place mate!
+1
because by the time your 30 you've grown out of metal and bought a prs custom 24 and a cornford hurricane and a bunch of boutique pedals or something to that effect.
well either that or by the time you're 30 what you thought was metal is now called classic rock...
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metal oriented guitars are a different league... not only BC rich (with it's ridiculous shapes), but also Jackson, Dean, ESP and many other good or excellent brands (i listed them strictly in order of liking) focus on models with a sort of "metalhead appeal", and they make great guitars too!
Out of interest, does this mean you rate Deans above ESPs?
I do. By far.
Care to give a reason?
I've never played a Dean that I'd go anywhere near, gaudy and horrible... Including the 4.5k US Custom shop Razorback which is imo one of the worst playing guitars I've ever picked up.
Not to mention the Dean guy who was running the stand was a total knobhead. (This was at LGS).
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I really like the tones on Cannibal Corpse's KILL album. 6FU have used Rectos too and their tones are pretty meaty.
Do Satyricon use Rectos now? I saw them on the Now Diabolical tour and it was 5150s - the records sounds like 5150s too.
kills is a combination of triple recs and powerballs i THINK. - powerballs for sure
and im quite sure satyricon used triple recs on volcano. cant really explain other albums though. Hes really secretive about his amps.
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metal oriented guitars are a different league... not only BC rich (with it's ridiculous shapes), but also Jackson, Dean, ESP and many other good or excellent brands (i listed them strictly in order of liking) focus on models with a sort of "metalhead appeal", and they make great guitars too!
Out of interest, does this mean you rate Deans above ESPs?
I do. By far.
Care to give a reason?
I've never played a Dean that I'd go anywhere near, gaudy and horrible... Including the 4.5k US Custom shop Razorback which is imo one of the worst playing guitars I've ever picked up.
Not to mention the Dean guy who was running the stand was a total knobhead. (This was at LGS).
Ive never played a dean that didnt hit WELL above its price in build and acoustic tone, and the opposite istrue of ESPs, both the 'real' esps and ltds. I have a custom shop dean thats a positively $%&#ing shiteeee hot guitar, (not custom built for me, but its a long story). Dean stock hardware is good, even on budget stuff, and the pickups are really excellent. I cant say any of that for anything but ful on ESP, and after playing more LTDs than I care to think about I would have to be paid to own one. The £800+ stuff is bested by £300 stuff from dean, and other manufacturers.
YMMV, but thats my experience.
Now, care to give a reason that you think ESPs are better?
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I really should have put dean instead of ESP in my other post! I dont know what I was thinking! Name prolification probably (and 'real' esps are very good, just overpriced by a factor of about 1.5 to 2.5).
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I would agree. Overwhelmingly. I'd pop them above Jacksons too, though I've never actually played that many high end Jacksons so it's not a particularly fair comparison.
Close call between dean and jackson for me. At the budget end, dean takes it by a mile, at the top end, its blow for blow in my experience.
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metal oriented guitars are a different league... not only BC rich (with it's ridiculous shapes), but also Jackson, Dean, ESP and many other good or excellent brands (i listed them strictly in order of liking) focus on models with a sort of "metalhead appeal", and they make great guitars too!
Out of interest, does this mean you rate Deans above ESPs?
ops... i didn't write exactly what i mean... i should have said in REVERSE order! :)
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metal oriented guitars are a different league... not only BC rich (with it's ridiculous shapes), but also Jackson, Dean, ESP and many other good or excellent brands (i listed them strictly in order of liking) focus on models with a sort of "metalhead appeal", and they make great guitars too!
Out of interest, does this mean you rate Deans above ESPs?
ops... i didn't write exactly what i mean... i should have said in REVERSE order! :)
Then now would be the time to PANIC! :lol:
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I would agree. Overwhelmingly. I'd pop them above Jacksons too, though I've never actually played that many high end Jacksons so it's not a particularly fair comparison.
i had one high end jackson... and that's why i would NEVER buy another one in my life.
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I would agree. Overwhelmingly. I'd pop them above Jacksons too, though I've never actually played that many high end Jacksons so it's not a particularly fair comparison.
i had one high end jackson... and that's why i would NEVER buy another one in my life.
I've found top end jacksons really variable. Some are utterly delicious in all ways, some make you wonder what the big deal is for. Keep trying them out, and unless I'm insane and know nothing about guitars you should find some that make your jaw drop and you check your bank balance
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metal oriented guitars are a different league... not only BC rich (with it's ridiculous shapes), but also Jackson, Dean, ESP and many other good or excellent brands (i listed them strictly in order of liking) focus on models with a sort of "metalhead appeal", and they make great guitars too!
Out of interest, does this mean you rate Deans above ESPs?
ops... i didn't write exactly what i mean... i should have said in REVERSE order! :)
Then now would be the time to PANIC! :lol:
i actually like deans (but i can't dig the V head!)... my only prolonged experience with them is my korean built caddy (with NO V head!), and despite being a lo-middle range guitar is absolutely great!
you'll soon see it, as i've ordered a couple of BKPs to upgrade it... :)
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metal oriented guitars are a different league... not only BC rich (with it's ridiculous shapes), but also Jackson, Dean, ESP and many other good or excellent brands (i listed them strictly in order of liking) focus on models with a sort of "metalhead appeal", and they make great guitars too!
Out of interest, does this mean you rate Deans above ESPs?
ops... i didn't write exactly what i mean... i should have said in REVERSE order! :)
Then now would be the time to PANIC! :lol:
i actually like deans (but i can't dig the V head!)... my only prolonged experience with them is my korean built caddy (with NO V head!), and despite being a lo-middle range guitar is absolutely great!
you'll soon see it, as i've ordered a couple of BKPs to upgrade it... :)
I really hate the headstock. But I tollerate it because they get the job done like a ninja on crack.
Save my custom. Irritatingly enough that has an ESP rip off headstock. Or maybe ESP ripped it off. In any case, they elected not to put their silly headstock on superstrats.
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they get the job done like a ninja on crack.
Almost peeying on my pants laughing :lol:
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Blackmachines
Interestingly, they were never designed to be specifically metal guitars, though it's very clear that they are extremely well suited to the job.
But yes, I have to disagree with the OP and say that there are a hell of a lot of specific metal products that are very very good pieces of kit.
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I really hate the headstock. But I tollerate it because they get the job done like a ninja on crack.
Save my custom. Irritatingly enough that has an ESP rip off headstock. Or maybe ESP ripped it off. In any case, they elected not to put their silly headstock on superstrats.
i can't imagine how silly would look a superstrat with a V headstock... the original caddy is very unbalanced, but an even more plain design with such a winged slab of wood in the wrong end of the guitar would look really ridiculous...
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it's the second time i hear of blackmachines in my life... and it's the second time in half an hour that i say they're one of the sexiest THINGS i saw recently (girls are in a different league, of course... :))
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Haha, spot on to the above.
To thread starter, I think you've got a point, there's a horrible stereotype of metal = gain + treble + repeat. Thing is, alot of metal bands are all about being immensely tight where they have so much going on, like a few Death Metal bands who vere from the above stereotype, say Nile/Hate Eternal for example.
Diezels are amazing amps and mainly metal amps. Although they can cover alot of sounds
Don't I just know it *Herbert owner* :lol: I think I will have this amp till I die presuming it doesn't ever get stolen/lost :lol:
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Ibanez RG, end of discussion.
My Ashdown Fallen Angel is also very good (although doesn't just do metal).
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I would agree. Overwhelmingly. I'd pop them above Jacksons too, though I've never actually played that many high end Jacksons so it's not a particularly fair comparison.
i had one high end jackson... and that's why i would NEVER buy another one in my life.
I've found top end jacksons really variable. Some are utterly delicious in all ways, some make you wonder what the big deal is for. Keep trying them out, and unless I'm insane and know nothing about guitars you should find some that make your jaw drop and you check your bank balance
Perhaps I've just been lucky - I have 6 US Jacksons & they're all gorgeous. If I could I'd have at least 6 more.
When it comes to the high-end brands, it's more a question of taste/preference than build quality - IMO the high end Dean, ESP, Jackson are all outstanding quality. But personally, I've always loved the feel of Jackson necks (the back contour, the compound radius, the fretwork) so I'd always choose Jackson above the others.
& FWIW, I think I met the same guy on the Dean stand at LGS, he truly was a total tool :( Shame, but the US MLs I've played have been seriously droolsome (no interest in Razorbacks).
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sure, ibanez is quite metal-friendly too, and makes good guitars...
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Wouldn't metal be at the end of the spectrum of music?
So really any amp that is pushed to the max, can be able to get metal tones. But then again I'm a loser at debates :lol:
I only like Dean Vendetta/Hardtails, I wouldn't pick up a Razorback the same way I wouldn't (for the time being) pick up a PRS Custom 24.
Plus I'm a fussy person on tremolos again, so I'd only go for a Jackson SL2H, a Horizon NT II or something like that.
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metal oriented guitars are a different league... not only BC rich (with it's ridiculous shapes), but also Jackson, Dean, ESP and many other good or excellent brands (i listed them strictly in order of liking) focus on models with a sort of "metalhead appeal", and they make great guitars too!
Out of interest, does this mean you rate Deans above ESPs?
I do. By far.
Care to give a reason?
I've never played a Dean that I'd go anywhere near, gaudy and horrible... Including the 4.5k US Custom shop Razorback which is imo one of the worst playing guitars I've ever picked up.
Not to mention the Dean guy who was running the stand was a total knobhead. (This was at LGS).
Ive never played a dean that didnt hit WELL above its price in build and acoustic tone, and the opposite istrue of ESPs, both the 'real' esps and ltds. I have a custom shop dean thats a positively $%&#ing shiteeeeee hot guitar, (not custom built for me, but its a long story). Dean stock hardware is good, even on budget stuff, and the pickups are really excellent. I cant say any of that for anything but ful on ESP, and after playing more LTDs than I care to think about I would have to be paid to own one. The £800+ stuff is bested by £300 stuff from dean, and other manufacturers.
YMMV, but thats my experience.
Now, care to give a reason that you think ESPs are better?
Reading those posts it just seems like you have a hate for LTD, and I allways think of ESP as ESP, so that might be the first part of my confusion.
And about them being overpriced... A MII costs about 1100, and competes with US Jacksons costing FAR more, my horizon costs 1300 in shops, and with the floyd rose about 1400 or 1500, and it easily competes with a US SL1/2, which again is alot more expensive. I think they're the best value guitars in the high end "metal brands" market - well, you get the most change from 2k, that's for sure.
Their signature guitars (the KH2 for example) are alot more expensive, but alot of them are just the standard models with different inlays, so are easily avoided.
It's funny cos everything you've written about ESP sounds like what I'd post about Dean...
Though really, it matters little since I don't own any LTDs, and probably never will. The 1000 series LTDs are amazing, and can be got for very little (the horizon model was being sold at 500 quid recently) and the ones I've played are about as close to jappo ESPs, US Jacksons, etc as I've seen in Indo/Korea.
But the 400 series and under, I would agree aren't good guitars (at least the ones I've played.)
Although I do feel that they're better than the Dean equivalents, which in my experience have been absolultely shockingly awful... Especially my attempts to try a Dean Vendetta a couple of years ago, easily the worst of all the similar guitars in the price range. I ended up getting an Ibanez, but really I should have got a Schecter, these are the 2 brands I feel dominate the low end market.
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I would agree. Overwhelmingly. I'd pop them above Jacksons too, though I've never actually played that many high end Jacksons so it's not a particularly fair comparison.
i had one high end jackson... and that's why i would NEVER buy another one in my life.
I've found top end jacksons really variable. Some are utterly delicious in all ways, some make you wonder what the big deal is for. Keep trying them out, and unless I'm insane and know nothing about guitars you should find some that make your jaw drop and you check your bank balance
Perhaps I've just been lucky - I have 6 US Jacksons & they're all gorgeous. If I could I'd have at least 6 more.
When it comes to the high-end brands, it's more a question of taste/preference than build quality - IMO the high end Dean, ESP, Jackson are all outstanding quality. But personally, I've always loved the feel of Jackson necks (the back contour, the compound radius, the fretwork) so I'd always choose Jackson above the others.
& FWIW, I think I met the same guy on the Dean stand at LGS, he truly was a total tool :( Shame, but the US MLs I've played have been seriously droolsome (no interest in Razorbacks).
Well, I've played perhaps 7 or 8 total and 3 stick out in memory - two really, really nice soloists and one really dead, lifeless and thin sounding soloist.
I own, and love, a DX1 (now discontinued, but was the top end MIJ model at the time ('98)). It was my main guitar for a really long time, including my most formative years as a player, so its neck and feel in general is pretty much the definition of playable to me.
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metal oriented guitars are a different league... not only BC rich (with it's ridiculous shapes), but also Jackson, Dean, ESP and many other good or excellent brands (i listed them strictly in order of liking) focus on models with a sort of "metalhead appeal", and they make great guitars too!
Out of interest, does this mean you rate Deans above ESPs?
I do. By far.
Care to give a reason?
I've never played a Dean that I'd go anywhere near, gaudy and horrible... Including the 4.5k US Custom shop Razorback which is imo one of the worst playing guitars I've ever picked up.
Not to mention the Dean guy who was running the stand was a total knobhead. (This was at LGS).
Ive never played a dean that didnt hit WELL above its price in build and acoustic tone, and the opposite istrue of ESPs, both the 'real' esps and ltds. I have a custom shop dean thats a positively $%&#ing shiteeeeeee hot guitar, (not custom built for me, but its a long story). Dean stock hardware is good, even on budget stuff, and the pickups are really excellent. I cant say any of that for anything but ful on ESP, and after playing more LTDs than I care to think about I would have to be paid to own one. The £800+ stuff is bested by £300 stuff from dean, and other manufacturers.
YMMV, but thats my experience.
Now, care to give a reason that you think ESPs are better?
Reading those posts it just seems like you have a hate for LTD, and I allways think of ESP as ESP, so that might be the first part of my confusion.
And about them being overpriced... A MII costs about 1100, and competes with US Jacksons costing FAR more, my horizon costs 1300 in shops, and with the floyd rose about 1400 or 1500, and it easily competes with a US SL1/2, which again is alot more expensive. I think they're the best value guitars in the high end "metal brands" market - well, you get the most change from 2k, that's for sure.
Their signature guitars (the KH2 for example) are alot more expensive, but alot of them are just the standard models with different inlays, so are easily avoided.
It's funny cos everything you've written about ESP sounds like what I'd post about Dean...
Though really, it matters little since I don't own any LTDs, and probably never will. The 1000 series LTDs are amazing, and can be got for very little (the horizon model was being sold at 500 quid recently) and the ones I've played are about as close to jappo ESPs, US Jacksons, etc as I've seen in Indo/Korea.
But the 400 series and under, I would agree aren't good guitars (at least the ones I've played.)
Although I do feel that they're better than the Dean equivalents, which in my experience have been absolultely shockingly awful... Especially my attempts to try a Dean Vendetta a couple of years ago, easily the worst of all the similar guitars in the price range. I ended up getting an Ibanez, but really I should have got a Schecter, these are the 2 brands I feel dominate the low end market.
Really, the hardware is a secondary consideration for me. The main things I look at in a guitar, by far and away, are the build quality and acoustic tone. You can change everything else. And I have never, not once, been impressed in those regards (at the same time) by an ESP or LTD. I've seen good build (on very expensive LTDs and all ESPs), but I've never been impressed by the acoustic sound. They're muddy or they're thin or they're honky. It strikes me that they spend all their budget on looks and hardware, not woods and build.
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metal oriented guitars are a different league... not only BC rich (with it's ridiculous shapes), but also Jackson, Dean, ESP and many other good or excellent brands (i listed them strictly in order of liking) focus on models with a sort of "metalhead appeal", and they make great guitars too!
Out of interest, does this mean you rate Deans above ESPs?
I do. By far.
Care to give a reason?
I've never played a Dean that I'd go anywhere near, gaudy and horrible... Including the 4.5k US Custom shop Razorback which is imo one of the worst playing guitars I've ever picked up.
Not to mention the Dean guy who was running the stand was a total knobhead. (This was at LGS).
Ive never played a dean that didnt hit WELL above its price in build and acoustic tone, and the opposite istrue of ESPs, both the 'real' esps and ltds. I have a custom shop dean thats a positively $%&#ing shiteeeeeeee hot guitar, (not custom built for me, but its a long story). Dean stock hardware is good, even on budget stuff, and the pickups are really excellent. I cant say any of that for anything but ful on ESP, and after playing more LTDs than I care to think about I would have to be paid to own one. The £800+ stuff is bested by £300 stuff from dean, and other manufacturers.
YMMV, but thats my experience.
Now, care to give a reason that you think ESPs are better?
Reading those posts it just seems like you have a hate for LTD, and I allways think of ESP as ESP, so that might be the first part of my confusion.
And about them being overpriced... A MII costs about 1100, and competes with US Jacksons costing FAR more, my horizon costs 1300 in shops, and with the floyd rose about 1400 or 1500, and it easily competes with a US SL1/2, which again is alot more expensive. I think they're the best value guitars in the high end "metal brands" market - well, you get the most change from 2k, that's for sure.
Their signature guitars (the KH2 for example) are alot more expensive, but alot of them are just the standard models with different inlays, so are easily avoided.
It's funny cos everything you've written about ESP sounds like what I'd post about Dean...
Though really, it matters little since I don't own any LTDs, and probably never will. The 1000 series LTDs are amazing, and can be got for very little (the horizon model was being sold at 500 quid recently) and the ones I've played are about as close to jappo ESPs, US Jacksons, etc as I've seen in Indo/Korea.
But the 400 series and under, I would agree aren't good guitars (at least the ones I've played.)
Although I do feel that they're better than the Dean equivalents, which in my experience have been absolultely shockingly awful... Especially my attempts to try a Dean Vendetta a couple of years ago, easily the worst of all the similar guitars in the price range. I ended up getting an Ibanez, but really I should have got a Schecter, these are the 2 brands I feel dominate the low end market.
Really, the hardware is a secondary consideration for me. The main things I look at in a guitar, by far and away, are the build quality and acoustic tone. You can change everything else. And I have never, not once, been impressed in those regards (at the same time) by an ESP or LTD. I've seen good build (on very expensive LTDs and all ESPs), but I've never been impressed by the acoustic sound. They're muddy or they're thin or they're honky. It strikes me that they spend all their budget on looks and hardware, not woods and build.
That's it.
Next time there's a London meetup I'm bringing my Horizon.
WE'LL SETTLE THIS IN A DUEL.
:D
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metal oriented guitars are a different league... not only BC rich (with it's ridiculous shapes), but also Jackson, Dean, ESP and many other good or excellent brands (i listed them strictly in order of liking) focus on models with a sort of "metalhead appeal", and they make great guitars too!
Out of interest, does this mean you rate Deans above ESPs?
I do. By far.
Care to give a reason?
I've never played a Dean that I'd go anywhere near, gaudy and horrible... Including the 4.5k US Custom shop Razorback which is imo one of the worst playing guitars I've ever picked up.
Not to mention the Dean guy who was running the stand was a total knobhead. (This was at LGS).
Ive never played a dean that didnt hit WELL above its price in build and acoustic tone, and the opposite istrue of ESPs, both the 'real' esps and ltds. I have a custom shop dean thats a positively $%&#ing shiteeeeeeeee hot guitar, (not custom built for me, but its a long story). Dean stock hardware is good, even on budget stuff, and the pickups are really excellent. I cant say any of that for anything but ful on ESP, and after playing more LTDs than I care to think about I would have to be paid to own one. The £800+ stuff is bested by £300 stuff from dean, and other manufacturers.
YMMV, but thats my experience.
Now, care to give a reason that you think ESPs are better?
Reading those posts it just seems like you have a hate for LTD, and I allways think of ESP as ESP, so that might be the first part of my confusion.
And about them being overpriced... A MII costs about 1100, and competes with US Jacksons costing FAR more, my horizon costs 1300 in shops, and with the floyd rose about 1400 or 1500, and it easily competes with a US SL1/2, which again is alot more expensive. I think they're the best value guitars in the high end "metal brands" market - well, you get the most change from 2k, that's for sure.
Their signature guitars (the KH2 for example) are alot more expensive, but alot of them are just the standard models with different inlays, so are easily avoided.
It's funny cos everything you've written about ESP sounds like what I'd post about Dean...
Though really, it matters little since I don't own any LTDs, and probably never will. The 1000 series LTDs are amazing, and can be got for very little (the horizon model was being sold at 500 quid recently) and the ones I've played are about as close to jappo ESPs, US Jacksons, etc as I've seen in Indo/Korea.
But the 400 series and under, I would agree aren't good guitars (at least the ones I've played.)
Although I do feel that they're better than the Dean equivalents, which in my experience have been absolultely shockingly awful... Especially my attempts to try a Dean Vendetta a couple of years ago, easily the worst of all the similar guitars in the price range. I ended up getting an Ibanez, but really I should have got a Schecter, these are the 2 brands I feel dominate the low end market.
Really, the hardware is a secondary consideration for me. The main things I look at in a guitar, by far and away, are the build quality and acoustic tone. You can change everything else. And I have never, not once, been impressed in those regards (at the same time) by an ESP or LTD. I've seen good build (on very expensive LTDs and all ESPs), but I've never been impressed by the acoustic sound. They're muddy or they're thin or they're honky. It strikes me that they spend all their budget on looks and hardware, not woods and build.
That's it.
Next time there's a London meetup I'm bringing my Horizon.
WE'LL SETTLE THIS IN A DUEL.
:D
:lol:
Your horizon Vs my custom
ITS ON!!!
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That's it.
Next time there's a London meetup I'm bringing my Horizon.
WE'LL SETTLE THIS IN A DUEL.
:D
:lol:
Your horizon Vs my custom
ITS ON!!!
The one who lost SHALL be destroyed :twisted:
:lol:
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Funny, I've got a Vendetta and I love it, and it certainly plays better than the Schecter Blackjack I tried while shopping for such a guitar. I also tried a LTD Viper (what was before the 400 series? 300? 350? Damn I'm old) which seriously did nothing for me. I think it's somewhat unfair to compare your ESP Horizon with a Vendetta 4 when pricewise it's closer to the MH250. The Ibanez that you purchased must surely have been more expensive too?
USA Deans certainly can't be accused of being overpriced (OK, maybe the USA Razorbacks, but hey, that's signatures for you), as they're available for sub Les Paul money with PRS+ quality. You can even get customs for the price of a PRS "artist" upgrade.
The Japanese Hardtail pros they did last year are awesome bang-for-buck if you can still find them.
The most divisive thing with Deans is the neck profile, if you can't get on with it, you're not going to like them, but some people don't like thin Us either.
I would say, owning one and having played other Deans in the £300-£400 range, they're right at the top of the pile in terms of build quality for that section of the market.
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I would say, owning one and having played other Deans in the £300-£400 range, they're right at the top of the pile in terms of build quality for that section of the market.
Absolutely. In that price bracket they pretty much own all. Hell, a mate of mine got one (I forget the model) for 70 quid and in build acoustic AND amped up tone you'd think it were £300 or more. Its a utilitiarian looking les paul special-alike.
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Funny, I've got a Vendetta and I love it, and it certainly plays better than the Schecter Blackjack I tried while shopping for such a guitar. I also tried a LTD Viper (what was before the 400 series? 300? 350? Damn I'm old) which seriously did nothing for me. I think it's somewhat unfair to compare your ESP Horizon with a Vendetta 4 when pricewise it's closer to the MH250. The Ibanez that you purchased must surely have been more expensive too?
USA Deans certainly can't be accused of being overpriced (OK, maybe the USA Razorbacks, but hey, that's signatures for you), as they're available for sub Les Paul money with PRS+ quality. You can even get customs for the price of a PRS "artist" upgrade.
The Japanese Hardtail pros they did last year are awesome bang-for-buck if you can still find them.
The most divisive thing with Deans is the neck profile, if you can't get on with it, you're not going to like them, but some people don't like thin Us either.
I would say, owning one and having played other Deans in the £300-£400 range, they're right at the top of the pile in terms of build quality for that section of the market.
I'm not comparing the Vendetta to my horizon!
As I said I bought an Ibanez (RGT42DXFM) and the Schecters in the same price range I've played (Hellraiser closest in price I guess) are better guitars that the Vendettas I've played aswell.
But anyway, I really don't want to talk about LTDs, I don't know enough about them except for the 1000 series (which are superb), but either way, I don't take slights to the Japanese ESPs quietly :P
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it's the second time i hear of blackmachines in my life... and it's the second time in half an hour that i say they're one of the sexiest THINGS i saw recently (girls are in a different league, of course... :))
Are you a Girl???
I hate the metalzone. I also Hate Mesa Boogie rectos. I have to say I think that I love Engl. They make some really good stuff. I wish they would make a distortion pedal. Anyway those are good, but I have to agree with some of the diehard vintage gear lovers. I love amps that sound good clean and distorted, and never would I buy an amp just because it breaths fire on all settings. I also hate modern music. Music died around 1995
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Are you a Girl???
I hate the metalzone. I also Hate Mesa Boogie rectos. I have to say I think that I love Engl. They make some really good stuff. I wish they would make a distortion pedal. Anyway those are good, but I have to agree with some of the diehard vintage gear lovers. I love amps that sound good clean and distorted, and never would I buy an amp just because it breaths fire on all settings. I also hate modern music. Music died around 1995
sorry to turn down the lesbo-goth thing, but i'm actually NOT a girl! :lol:
if i were the girl in my avatar (a brazilian model called roberta murgo or something like that) i think i'd spend quite a lot of my time watching myself in the mirror, so i wouldn't have the time to play guitar at all... :lol:
anyway to go back to topic it's strange that you hate rectos and love engl... i think they have one of the tightest distortions around, and when i think about "modern" sounds that kind of thightness is the first thing i think about.
of course you're right if you refer to mesas as the standard sound of certain kinds of modern nu-metal and things like that, but -despite standardisation- i don't see rectos as particularly modern sounding amps...
as regards amps able to sound well as clean as distorted i fear this is a peculiarity of modern gear... marshalls which dominated the whole rock and metal scene in the 70s and 80s were not exactly brilliant when it came to clean sounds, at least in my opinion!
why do tou say that music died in 1995? what happened then?
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i'd like to say a nice word for the metalzone... everyone here refers to it as the example of bad-sounding cheap metal equipment, but i used it for years when i lacked the experience required to get at least decent sounds with no professional budget, and it exemplifies the kind of teenage gear we talked about before... something a kid can plug into a cheap amp to get heavy sound impossible to obtain otherwise... and at least for a while it works! i think that it's still a nice transistor distortion - if used wisely . a kind of cold distortion i'm no more interested to have, but at the time i played mostly doom-black metal, and it fit well the range of sounds i looked for. it gave me even a nice lead tone!
the basic advice is - obviously - to avoid the infamous mid scooping every one seemed to force with those pedals!
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I'm about to order a duncan twin tube mayhem. Thats made for metal. We'll see how it works out!
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Around that time of 1995 music as we know it was popized. Lots of bands were produced without much quality lyrically or musically. Some of the older dudes like Aerosmith-AC/DC still put out a decent record or two, but I don't know it just seems like music lost some serious quality. Maybe people stopped selling their souls for rock n roll.
Sorry I was just curious. I thought it would be an odd avatar for a dude to put up. I find that Messas can be tonally fragile. Like one day you turn it on and your like blown away and then the next day you have to find the sweet spot again. I dont like all Engls mind you. I like the more classic designed ones. I played through a sovereign and I liked that and also the Ritchie blackmore model.
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Frankly, I think if you can't find good music post 1995, it's because you don't look hard enough. Or quite specifically don't look at all so you can have your wee elitist grumbles. :lol:
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Around that time of 1995 music as we know it was popized. Lots of bands were produced without much quality lyrically or musically. Some of the older dudes like Aerosmith-AC/DC still put out a decent record or two, but I don't know it just seems like music lost some serious quality. Maybe people stopped selling their souls for rock n roll.
Sorry I was just curious. I thought it would be an odd avatar for a dude to put up. I find that Messas can be tonally fragile. Like one day you turn it on and your like blown away and then the next day you have to find the sweet spot again. I dont like all Engls mind you. I like the more classic designed ones. I played through a sovereign and I liked that and also the Ritchie blackmore model.
Every era had their share of untalented yet somehow popular bands. IMO, you should broaden your musical horizons and really search for good music. And turn off the radio. :lol:
Frankly, I think if you can't find good music post 1995, it's because you don't look hard enough. Or quite specifically don't look at all so you can have your wee elitist grumbles. :lol:
I agree with the first part and would add that it can also be hard to know where to look. As for the second part, I used to think sort of like mikey5 but now I've gotten into some really great new bands so I don't think he's being elitist at all.
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Around that time of 1995 music as we know it was popized. Lots of bands were produced without much quality lyrically or musically. Some of the older dudes like Aerosmith-AC/DC still put out a decent record or two, but I don't know it just seems like music lost some serious quality. Maybe people stopped selling their souls for rock n roll.
Sorry I was just curious. I thought it would be an odd avatar for a dude to put up. I find that Messas can be tonally fragile. Like one day you turn it on and your like blown away and then the next day you have to find the sweet spot again. I dont like all Engls mind you. I like the more classic designed ones. I played through a sovereign and I liked that and also the Ritchie blackmore model.
Every era had their share of untalented yet somehow popular bands. IMO, you should broaden your musical horizons and really search for good music. And turn off the radio. :lol:
Frankly, I think if you can't find good music post 1995, it's because you don't look hard enough. Or quite specifically don't look at all so you can have your wee elitist grumbles. :lol:
I agree with the first part and would add that it can also be hard to know where to look. As for the second part, I used to think sort of like mikey5 but now I've gotten into some really great new bands so I don't think he's being elitist at all.
I was using "you" in a general fashion, I didn't mean him specifically, just the majority of folk who hold that opinion. Elitist is probably the worng word since normally I would think of it being people who think you have mainstream tastes if you don't love the Trasylvanian inderground bands that released a demo yesterday but I couldn't think of a better term.
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No worries. :)
But I can't believe you haven't heard that demo yet, noob! It made Abboth's corpse paint run from all the crying he did when I showed it to him :!:
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No worries. :)
But I can't believe you haven't heard that demo yet, noob! It made Abboth's corpse paint run from all the crying he did when I showed it to him :!:
Zogborath says that its not rough and raw enough, and instead of recording it in a gothic castles tool shed it should have been in a cave with sticks as instuments and tin cans with bits of string instead of mics. He says guitars and mics are for posers. HAIL SATAN!
In addition, REAL metal must be tracked and mixed by a demonically possessed pitt bull that has injected vodka into its eyes. Anything else is FAKE. HAIL SATAN!
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Sorry I was just curious. I thought it would be an odd avatar for a dude to put up.
:lol: eheheh... i was thinking about changing it and was waiting for the first question like yours to do it... i mean, noone around here can be REALLY Yoda or a cat with sunglasses and a paper pipe on his nose, but i could easily be a wonderful girl actually playing gothic metal (i don't think i'd ever have problems getting my music published, in the case... :))...
anyway i agree with the previous comments... you should look elsewhere and maybe try a bit of a genre shifting... if you love classic rock well... there's nothing better than classics. i think it's something that monsieur Lapalisse could have explained very well... :)
in general i think it's quite a clichee (not referring to you, but i know many people on similar positions) to say that rock/metal/pop/gregorian chant and so on died when the X musician shot himself in the head/was killed by the Burzum guy/confessed he was gay and left the band/was abducted by aliens...
well... i love medieval music, but if it were the ONLY kind of music i loved i could say that music died around 1300... it wouldn't be exactly true, though. :P
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Yoda you cant be
Yoda rasta getup in and a joint and a bottle of JD has ammuse you enough to use it as an avatar you can
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Yoda you cant be
Yoda rasta getup in and a joint and a bottle of JD has ammuse you enough to use it as an avatar you can
i'd never dare such an insolence, master... :)