Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: shobet on April 04, 2009, 06:46:21 PM
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Apols. if some of this stuff has been covered before. I found it interesting how the new modern pauls are kept lighter.
Weight relieved
(http://www.mcquain.com/lespaul/miscellaneous/Chamber_Standard2002.jpg)
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg225/Gibson_Tim/1998LPstandardradiograph.jpg)
Chambered - $%&# me you're buying more air than you are guitar!
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg225/Gibson_Tim/Chamber_BFG_2007.jpg)
(http://www.mcquain.com/lespaul/miscellaneous/Chamber_Supreme.jpg)
Also the difference between long and short neck tenons.
(http://www.mcquain.com/lespaul/miscellaneous/Neck_Tenon_Comparison.jpg)
I find this stuff fascinating. Her indoors thinks I should probably get out a bit more...
Most of those pics were pinched from here. A nice little collection of pics for anyone interested in these 6 string things we like to spend our money on.
http://www.mcquain.com/lespaul/miscellaneous/ (http://www.mcquain.com/lespaul/miscellaneous/)
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That chambered BFG (or whatever it is) probably has less solid wood than my 339! You'd think they'd be incredibly light - but they're not.
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Whats this got to do with Les Pauls?
http://www.mcquain.com/lespaul/miscellaneous/EyeShadow.gif
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Whats this got to do with Les Pauls?
http://www.mcquain.com/lespaul/miscellaneous/EyeShadow.gif
The wood is a means to an end!
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Whats this got to do with Les Pauls?
http://www.mcquain.com/lespaul/miscellaneous/EyeShadow.gif
Hmm.
Doesn't look like she's lacking in fullness.
Lol @ http://www.mcquain.com/lespaul/miscellaneous/BigBoyToys.jpg
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The 2008 Lesp Paul is chambered and is very light, lighter than a strat, so it could well be a 2008 body in that pic.
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The 2008 Lesp Paul is chambered and is very light, lighter than a strat, so it could well be a 2008 body in that pic.
P90 in the neck, the observations of Phil. So it is probably a BFG.
In 2007 they changed all USA standard factory to chambered I think, but it didn't go down too well, and some went back.
Although I think in 2007 it was even more hollow, there was no ring of wood around the control cavity. ie you could drop a penny into the backplate and could get it to rattle in the bottom horn as well as all the way around to the top horn (If I am making sense? :P )
What is that woman's name? I can't for the life of me remember.
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the top two are normal les paul weight relief holes
middle is definatly a chambered BFG
The last is a Supreme - they get a carved maple back and all wiring is fed in through that extra large jack socket
you can see the weight relief isnt really something that has a massive tonal impact - although it does have some. there is no real loss of stiffness in the mahogany body and it vibrates in a very similar to way to a solid body. the chambered ones are very different
what you cant see on the BFg is the patented 'Toneflakes' they leave in the chambers ;)
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what you cant see on the BFg is the patented 'Toneflakes' they leave in the chambers ;)
They're great!
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what you cant see on the BFg is the patented 'Toneflakes' they leave in the chambers ;)
They're great!
Don't you mean 'they're gggrrreeeaattt!'
I'll get my coat
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Be fun to make one with lead in the weight relief holes - just so you can ask a mate to get your guitar for you and watch him get a hernia !! :lol:
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I have owned them all-what I like about my swiss cheese standard is the ability to achieve feedback-the cool, controlled feedback/Nugent style stuff....very resonant ..find the sweet spot and weeeeeee!!!not as bottom heavy as,say, my old pancake Custom, but I really dig the lively feel it has 8)
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I love my chambered LP Studio Vintage Mahogany.
Zingy and resonant. And lighter! :D
In fact, I'd be reluctant to have an all-solid LP type guitar now, unless it was made with very special wood.
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Have A Chambered Guild Bluesbird...don't think as drastic as one of the LP mentioned..but great sound...and still is far from light
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The weight relief was done because they couldn't find light weigh mahogany anymore.
Many people thought they had light weight mahogany Les Paul but it was actually a weight relief Les Paul. They never told anyone when they started this, what I would call, SCAM.
If you want a chambered Les Paul, buy a Gretsch Jet.
Gibson has lost all credibility in my book.
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Whats this got to do with Les Pauls?
http://www.mcquain.com/lespaul/miscellaneous/EyeShadow.gif
Who cares, I wanna go on them!
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The weight relief was done because they couldn't find light weigh mahogany anymore.
Many people thought they had light weight mahogany Les Paul but it was actually a weight relief Les Paul. They never told anyone when they started this, what I would call, SCAM.
If you want a chambered Les Paul, buy a Gretsch Jet.
Gibson has lost all credibility in my book.
..they have lost a lot of cred for a lot of people, BUT>>>>the resale on them tells a different story, at least here in the states..I have made a profit on every LP I have ever owned!This is very important to me, because I am a lefty,and I buy-sell-trade a LOT-a good investment is hard to find, but a LP "resonates" $$(cheap pun...) :lol:
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Many people thought they had light weight mahogany Les Paul but it was actually a weight relief Les Paul. They never told anyone when they started this, what I would call, SCAM.
i call it working with the materials you have available. and i actually think its how guitar building should be approached. rather than continue in a cookie cutter fashion gibson changed the design slightly to suit the material they had.
to me thats much better than putting out another decades worth 'authenticly built' les pauls that most people would never play
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Many people thought they had light weight mahogany Les Paul but it was actually a weight relief Les Paul. They never told anyone when they started this, what I would call, SCAM.
i call it working with the materials you have available. and i actually think its how guitar building should be approached. rather than continue in a cookie cutter fashion gibson changed the design slightly to suit the material they had.
to me thats much better than putting out another decades worth 'authenticly built' les pauls that most people would never play
Fair point, but they should, perhaps, have said from the start that that's what they were doing - after all, it is sold as a "solidbody" guitar. Maybe the Swiss cheese ones just about qualify as solid, but the chambered ones certainly don't.
Interesting point about resale values, Shaman - I don't think I've ever made a profit selling a Gibson, in fact I've made some hefty losses! Having said that, most of mine were bought new and sold within a few years, so they had no "vintage" value.
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Fair point, but they should, perhaps, have said from the start that that's what they were doing - after all, it is sold as a "solidbody" guitar. Maybe the Swiss cheese ones just about qualify as solid, but the chambered ones certainly don't.
they took a while to admit they were swiss cheesing but i dont think they have ever not mentioned it when chambering ... its usually advertised as a feature
seems gibson are finally being honest with the rest of the range
http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/ProductSpotlight/GearAndInstruments/Chambering%20the%20Les%20Paul_%20A%20Mar/
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On Musikmesse, Gibson was close to PRS location wise. The Gibson booth was 5x as big as PRS, who were funnily kind of sharing a stand with MesaBoogie. But Gibson did NOTHING to me. I am drooling over '59s on pictures, but on that booth, it was uninspired and corporate. Just big and like "look how much money we can spend on marketing" but there was no sex, no greatness. Opposite the PRS booth, I could have just gone and hugged each of their guitars, that's as great as they all looked and were presented.
Think I am cured of the LP bug ...
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Fair point, but they should, perhaps, have said from the start that that's what they were doing - after all, it is sold as a "solidbody" guitar. Maybe the Swiss cheese ones just about qualify as solid, but the chambered ones certainly don't.
they took a while to admit they were swiss cheesing but i dont think they have ever not mentioned it when chambering ... its usually advertised as a feature
seems gibson are finally being honest with the rest of the range
http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/ProductSpotlight/GearAndInstruments/Chambering%20the%20Les%20Paul_%20A%20Mar/
Yeah, they're certainly making a big deal of it now, even on cheaper models like the Studios. I don't remember them ever mentioning it in the past, but then I don't know when they started "carving carefully mapped-out chambers" as opposed to just drilling a few holes.
I don't think chambering's a bad thing - in fact it's made me interested in trying out some of the new LPs.
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but then I don't know when they started "carving carefully mapped-out chambers" as opposed to just drilling a few holes.
about the same time people started posting those swiss cheese x-rays around all over the place. I reckon the the random hole solution is a good temporary one, but when stock is consistently heavier it makes sense to tool up properly for something like regular chambers... its also easier to market those as 'acoustically' tuned' than it is a series of random holes
i like the chambered LP's but they do sound different. Thats not such an issue with the swiss cheese approach
i much prefer warmoth's approach to weight relief... Its neatly done and still maintains a body woods inherent tone. Something like that, maybe with half as many channels would be a good choice for gibson.
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Gibson seems to be all about lifestyle and branding these days.
More of a fashion accessory that an instrument.
All of these limited specials are all aimed at crazy collectors, not players.
IMO it's the downfall of a once great guitar company.
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Neither of my excellent Gibsons cost more than £500.
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It's a bit the customer's fault. They have this impression that old LesPauls were light in weight and great in sound. There is a great and long article in German "Gitarre and Bass" by guitar craftman Andre, to summarize it:
- the differences in weight between early and LesPauls in the 70s/80s were because of the type of mahogany. Hondura mahogany was technically almost extinct. Today the origin of the mahogany varies quite a lot.
- the lighter mahogany is more resonant and brighter, the heavier often darker. Ironically, bluesers and old-school rockers prefer the first, younger and more metal minded the latter sound. Therefore there is no real better type.
- the old classic LesPauls weren't really as light as many believe they were, Andre says most of them were close to 4kg or above. IN the 70s many instruments were made ridiculously heavy, including strats.
- somehow the belief that a good LesPaul uses light wood came around - therefore lighter sell better
- the little holes have only minimal influence on sound
The little small holes probably have no real influence on the sound. The wood is more important and that is something only playtesting in a shop can reveal.