Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: richardjmorgan on May 04, 2009, 12:12:54 PM
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I'm beginning to reach the conclusion that there's not a great deal of point keeping my Marshall 4x12 due to being so big and difficult to transport, it tends to spend most of its time locked up in our practice room and I'm thinking a 2x12 cab would be more conducive to actually being able to use my own cab a bit more often.
I'm using a Gibson V with EMGs *ducks* through a Peavey 5150 and playing chugga chugga metal/hardcore, mostly, so what would be good cabs to look at? I've read good things about Mesa 2x12s but the price tag's a bit out of my reach. I initially thought the Laney GS212 looked like a bargain, but a cursory nose around on the internet would seem to indicate that the speakers used in it aren't very highly regarded. Other than those two, I've been thinking about Orange, Framus, Blackstar and Matamp (although I can't seem to find much indicating how much the latter might cost) but speakers and cabs are not something I really know a great deal about.
So, can anyone offer me any helpful pointers?
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My Matamp cab was about £350 with V30s. They can pretty much make it however you want it, they are a very full sounding cab with removable back panels which give you closed, semi/half open options.
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I have two laney GS212ie's and, yes, the speakers are not great (nor are they too terrible either).
But, considering that the cab only costs £190 in the first place, you can get a pretty well made cab and buy the exact set of speakers you want for £300.
You'd probably be able to sell the 70/80's that came in it on ebay too, to make back some more money.
For me, the great things about the GS212ie is that it's pretty light, the handles are superb and that together makes it a very portable 2x12 - not something the Orange 2x12 (for example) can be accused of !
The cab also has a depth of almost 14", which gives it a bigger, fuller sound than most (usually considerably shallower) 2x12 cabs. They even make greenbacks sound deep and full !
The tolexing and general fit and finish on the Laney cabs is not the best around, but where it matters in the woodwork, they are very solid and, of course, completely plywood constructed.
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What about this? Bargain!
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=17015.0
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Cheers for the tips so far, guys!
So are there speakers I should be considering other than Vintage 30s? That seems to be what's in more or less every 212 I've looked at (other than the Laney).
Also, are either of these worth thinking about?
http://www.thomann.de/gb/framus_fr212_cb.htm
http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_g212_vintage.htm
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What about a Marshall 1922? I've got a couple lying around doing nothing. If you're interested PM me.
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What about this? Bargain!
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=17015.0
On paper, Adam's 2x12 sounds like a good buy. Although I've not seen pics of it at all.
BTW - steer away from Marshall 1922's (sorry Shobet :oops:) - Possibly the worst 2x12 cab ever constructed. Horrible boxy tone, beamy, just yuk.
Richard, if you're choosing your own speakers, then I would strongly recommend G12K-100's, which are great for the sort of stuff you play, and have good power handling ability.
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I have the Framus 2x12 - got rid of a Marshall 4x12 in favour of it, and I'm very happy. Much less rugged than the Marshall, but a superb sound.
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Much less rugged than the Marshall
Less rugged to the point that it's likely to be a problem chucking it in the back of a VW Polo and humping it back and forth to various shows?
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That's hard to say.
It's certainly not flimsy.
It survived my dragging it a couple of flights of stairs for the London BKP meet, and a couple of the guys there commented on how good it sounded.
The wood certainly isn't as thick as my Marshall was, but it's definitely sturdy.
Mark.
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I have the Framus 2x12 - got rid of a Marshall 4x12 in favour of it, and I'm very happy. Much less rugged than the Marshall, but a superb sound.
i too have a framus 2x12 that i bought off a forumite....
very happy with it so far :D mines got g12k-100's in (not fully broken in yet but sounding great!!!!!!!!, even tho i dont have a proper head to run it with.... yet! ;) )
n as far as ruggedness goes its pretty damn sturdy tbh, just not quite as brickshiteehousy as marshalls (but they sound f**kin awfull) thats the 1936's (hated that one .....)
jake
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Marshalls look more sturdy because of the batons they put around the front to make them look beefy.... they are still 3/4" ply which is probably 18mm now just like the Framus. At least the Framus is Baltic birch ply the same as Mesa cabs... so I doubt you'll have any worries!
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My understanding with the Framus 2x12's was that it was the delicate tolex that was the issue, not the woodwork in any way.
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My understanding with the Framus 2x12's was that it was the delicate tolex that was the issue, not the woodwork in any way.
maybe so hamfist, i wouldnt know as i havnt abused it yet :P
but if its tolex then is that really i problem? i dnt think so...
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Personally, I'm so happy with the 1x12 Martin made for me, I'd not go to anyone else for a cab these days. Sounds awesome, well made and great value, drop him a PM.
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My understanding with the Framus 2x12's was that it was the delicate tolex that was the issue, not the woodwork in any way.
maybe so hamfist, i wouldnt know as i havnt abused it yet :P
but if its tolex then is that really i problem? i dnt think so...
Wouldn't be a great problem for me either, but some folks are fussy about keeping stuff looking pristine.
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This 2x12 belonged to me before adam and it's a killer cab built by a guy who works for Matamp now.
It's rugged, well designed and sounds fantastic.
What about this? Bargain!
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=17015.0
On paper, Adam's 2x12 sounds like a good buy. Although I've not seen pics of it at all.
BTW - steer away from Marshall 1922's (sorry Shobet :oops:) - Possibly the worst 2x12 cab ever constructed. Horrible boxy tone, beamy, just yuk.
Richard, if you're choosing your own speakers, then I would strongly recommend G12K-100's, which are great for the sort of stuff you play, and have good power handling ability.
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Also, a question for those of you who use 2x12s when playing live: do you find you need to raise them up somehow in order to be able to best hear them onstage? One reservation I have is that without doing that, all the sound is going to be coming out at about knee level (to use the appropriate technical terms) and therefore make it harder to pick out my playing from all the other racket going on.
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You could always stand the cab vertically. That seems to make a difference when I struggle to hear mine.
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Also, a question for those of you who use 2x12s when playing live: do you find you need to raise them up somehow in order to be able to best hear them onstage? One reservation I have is that without doing that, all the sound is going to be coming out at about knee level (to use the appropriate technical terms) and therefore make it harder to pick out my playing from all the other racket going on.
If I'm using one 2x12, I'll have it raised up on a table, another cab of some sort, or any other way I can get it up a bit. Often that will include having the cab on it's side so that the speakers are vertically one on top of the other.
Yes, you lose some bass reponse that way, but I dial my amps in to accomodate that.
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I have two laney GS212ie's and, yes, the speakers are not great (nor are they too terrible either).
I would like to have a go with one of these with better speakers, it would look cool with my GH50L :) I just would need a new laney logo plate for my GH to match. Though the last shop I went into about that never got back to me :(
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I just use my 2x12 flat on the floor, as does Martin. No problem hearing it.
It's all about getting the entire band levels right.........
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I just use my 2x12 flat on the floor, as does Martin. No problem hearing it.
It's all about getting the entire band levels right.........
This is one of those things where there is no right or wrong, just personal preference.
If you're the sort of player who likes to hear the full bandwidth of frequencies coming out of your cab then you'll need a speaker pointing somewhere near your ears.
If you like to roll off those upper frequencies to your ears on stage then keep the cab low on the floor. In those circumstances, though, it can sound great to you, standing way above the speakers, but may well still have a trebly "beam of death" straight in front of your cab, which is often pointed straight at punter's ears. Just something to be aware of (obviously TF and MW both are) and adjust your cab direction as appropriate.
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Indeed! I like to hear the full band and not just me ;)
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I did a gig on saturday and just had my 2x12 on the floor, sounded fine and in my opinion sounded bigger/broader than the other guitarists 4x12. Probably because it has better speakers and I had the back off I'm guessing?
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Could be a combination of many things, Tom :)
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hey twinfan were you and martin using closed or open backed cabs?
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My 4x12 is closed back, my combos are open backed, and our 2x12s are semi-open backed.....
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Something I was jsut discussing with someone, and though you chaps might have some thoughts on:
It seems quite a few people seem to be fond of 4x12s with 2 G12K-100s and 2 Vintage 30s, with the speakers of the same type installed diagonally across from each other. This got me to thinking about the possibility of using one of each in a 2x12. Good idea, or is it something that's only going to be effective in a 4?
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It works well in a 2x12 too I believe, but not for me. Matchless use a G12M/G12H combination in their DC-30, and lots of the booteek guys do a similar thing. I've tried a couple of mixes in 2x12s, but never really loved the tone. I now use two Celestion Golds in my 2x12.
My 4x12 has two V30s and two G12H Heritages in a X-pattern, and this gives a great range and spread of tones.
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Something I was jsut discussing with someone, and though you chaps might have some thoughts on:
It seems quite a few people seem to be fond of 4x12s with 2 G12K-100s and 2 Vintage 30s, with the speakers of the same type installed diagonally across from each other. This got me to thinking about the possibility of using one of each in a 2x12. Good idea, or is it something that's only going to be effective in a 4?
I've not tried that particular mix, but have mixed other speakers to good effect in a 2x12
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Indeed! I like to hear the full band and not just me ;)
Actually, if you have a speaker(s) pointing nearer your ears, you'll be able to get away with significantly less volume to hear yourself properly, as it's a much more efficient way of hearing your own amp. That way, there's actually less chance of being too loud in the whole band context.
I am frequently asked to turn UP by other band members.
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That's what I mean Alan - you're obscuring the wider band by pointing you directly up to your ears. I like leaving the amp on the floor so I can hear everyone else better :)
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I have the Laney, it's brilliant, but you need a good head to really make it sound lush. If not you will probably need to change the speakers out to something slightly better. It's brilliant though and very compact, much smaller than any other 2x12's i've come across.
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That's what I mean Alan - you're obscuring the wider band by pointing you directly up to your ears. I like leaving the amp on the floor so I can hear everyone else better :)
I don't find that Dave. I just don't need as much volume from my amp/cab. I also get the full bandwidth of my tone to my ears, instead of the hugely treble cut tone that you get to your ears if you stand up playing, with your cab on the floor.
As I said earlier, it's just a matter of personal preference.
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Of course - sorry if I came across a bit negative. I meant *I* find I obscure the wider band sound if I do what you do. Horses for courses as you say! :)
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I fitted a couple of Webber Beam Blockers in my Hellcat Combo with good results. Unfortunately the cost of getting them over here was nearly as much as the BBs - not sure if anybody stocks them in the UK.
http://www.webervst.com/blocker.html (http://www.webervst.com/blocker.html)
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Regarding the idea of mixing two different speakers in one cab; I personally think it's a great idea if you can find the combination that suits you. I use a G12T-75 and a V30 in a cab that I built myself. It's a bit larger than most 2 x 12 cabs and has a three quarter back design that I nicked from an old mesa boogie that a mate had. It works exremely well!
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I just realised how cheap those Laney GS 2x12s are.. under £200! Really tempting so I could have a stereo "4x12" rig haha. Totally unneccesary :P