Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Lew on May 19, 2009, 10:57:23 PM

Title: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Lew on May 19, 2009, 10:57:23 PM
Well! After a pretty poor experience with the Briggs (don't ask lol), I went back and took this badboy instead. Playability is superb and the singles coils are great. The bridge 'bucker is a bit pokey though, I'll probably change it for a bkp if I can't tame it!
The top is cool as hell, there's so many things happening on it and all understated at the same time.

Lots of fun things on the guitar - ball bearing rather knife point trem and no trussrod :o :o


Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Ian Price on May 19, 2009, 11:15:24 PM
Good stuff Lew - a little pointy for my liking but nice all the same. Don't Vigier use graphite to strengthen the neck?
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Lew on May 19, 2009, 11:19:20 PM
Carbon fibre I think mate, there's a black skunk stripe on the back of the neck.
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Philly Q on May 19, 2009, 11:24:58 PM
Well! After a pretty poor experience with the Briggs (don't ask lol), I went back and took this badboy instead.

No, go on, I have to ask!  What happened?

(The Vigier is very nice though  :D )
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Denim n Leather on May 19, 2009, 11:26:53 PM
The Vigier is great. Doesn't the Excalibur have an active tone circuit for the bridge pup?
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: dave_mc on May 19, 2009, 11:42:01 PM
vigiers are very nice, great score. a local shop became a dealer a while back, i tried a bunch of them. I wasn't 100% fussed on the pickups, and i've been kinda spoiled with legra (knowing i can get exactly what i want for the same price if not less, as long as i'm willing to wait), but if i were to buy an off-the-shelf guitar around that price, Vigier would be pretty high up my list. :)
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Dr. Vic on May 19, 2009, 11:54:57 PM
Yes this is one-stunning-french-guitar-design-with-high-class-materials !

So here I am : COCORICO   ^^  More seriously this is a very nice guitar, congrat' !

Another very good French company is LAG (played by Phil Campbell and Chris Georges, just to name them !).

champagne and wine !  :drink:

Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Nolly on May 19, 2009, 11:56:19 PM
Awesome top on that! I really dig Vigiers, congrats!
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Lew on May 20, 2009, 01:57:59 AM
Well! After a pretty poor experience with the Briggs (don't ask lol), I went back and took this badboy instead.

No, go on, I have to ask!  What happened?

(The Vigier is very nice though  :D )

I'd probably be considered anal but... I was sold it as a new guitar and was told the dings and scratches happened in the shop. I contacted Briggs himself and was informed it had been stolen - it wasn't the end of the world but I was a bit miffed I didn't get the story when I'd dropped 2 big ones on it.
It came to pass that it had in fact been M.I.A for anything up to a year (remember it was sold as a new guitar)... anyway when I restrung it the nut poped off the guitar, argh!
The tail piece studs were really lose as well and with tension on it leaned forward a fair bit.
It wouldn't stay in tune at all it just kept dropping half a tone with the lightest use - I restrung it again as I had alot of winds on the posts and thought that my bad stringing might be the issue. But again it still wouldn't stay in tune, a few strums and it would drop half a tone. I was just peed off at this point and cut my losses. The issues were def set-up/condition issues, Briggs make wicked sick guitars.

The shop were good about it though and took it back with out much bother, they were pretty eager to repair it but that wasn't working for me.

Probably all sounds a bit Alan Partridge :lol: but I expect certain things at this price point.

The Vigier is great. Doesn't the Excalibur have an active tone circuit for the bridge pup?

I don't know, does it? There's no battery compartment... would it have that?

I wasn't 100% fussed on the pickups

Ye I bought it thinking that the bridge pickup could maybe do with a replacement when I get round to it, it'sok for high gain but its really pokey, not a big deal though. The guitar overall has a really nice tight midrange voice maybe because the necks a teeny bit longer than a Fender.
 
It has a really nice tight, mid-rangey articulate voice, maybe due to the slightly longer than Fender scale.
I played a Hamer Talledaga and Mon Elite there too and was really dissapointed with them they both had a really wooly muffled tone, shame as I've really loved the Hamers I've owned before.

Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Keven on May 20, 2009, 04:00:29 AM
Bah. how do these shopkeepers get away with this? we had a clarinet that was stolen that i chased through town and to a pawn shop that i had to sell at cost price to get it finally out of the store. and you're telling me someone managed to sell you a guitar that was stolen and returned? ;)

nice catch though, the vigiers are rockin. with that flame maple and and graphite reinforcement, a truss rod is useless. if you care for it properly that is!
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Zaned on May 20, 2009, 06:37:52 AM
A great looking guitar! I almost bought a second-hand Vigier at the end of last year, but decided to go the custom route. I bet that neck's about as stable as it gets.

My strat actually has a neck too that doesn't have a truss rod :) And it's a '62 Fender profile, so it's on the slimmer side too. A really thick and rigid rosewood fretboard on top of the maple neck, and a couple of ebony bars inside stiffening it even more..

-Zaned
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: noodleplugerine on May 20, 2009, 08:03:14 AM
Gorgeous guitar, Vigier are some of my fave guitars up there with Black Machines etc, if I was to buy a guitar off the shelf, there's no question what it would be.
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Philly Q on May 20, 2009, 09:14:03 AM
Probably all sounds a bit Alan Partridge :lol: but I expect certain things at this price point.

That's the key thing, if you were buying it used and knowing the "issues" in advance, it would be fair enough.  But if you're buying it as "new" - for a lot of money - you're entitled to expect perfection, or something close to it.
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Gooby on May 20, 2009, 09:34:22 AM
Great buy, I am a Vigier enthusiast and don't own one lol.

Lot's of lovely innovations on these that all make sense.

Sure you will enjoy that.


Martin
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: WezV on May 20, 2009, 12:42:13 PM
with that flame maple and and graphite reinforcement, a truss rod is useless.

i am really struggling with that statement, it strikes me as an oxymoron :?  but then i always really struggle with the idea of having no truss rod because of teh set-up implications, so i would really struggle with having no truss rod on a flamed maple neck (because flamed maple is less stable)

i am all for graphite reinforcement, thats why most of my necks get two bars either side of the two way truss rod (and the truss rod does work as it should).

having said that, i really like vigiers and there system does seem to work.  they are using more graphite:wood than i do.  so this isnt meant to be negative, just thinking out loud

i really like the guitar, the maple top is stunning

Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Keven on May 20, 2009, 01:12:08 PM
oh? i was always under the impression that flamed maple was harder than non figured maple.
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Zaned on May 20, 2009, 02:59:27 PM
oh? i was always under the impression that flamed maple was harder than non figured maple.

In average, it's not as STIFF as non-figured maple.

-Zaned
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: WezV on May 20, 2009, 04:37:03 PM
but as long as its well selected its still more than suitable
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Lew on May 20, 2009, 04:53:52 PM
I totally understand the truss rod concerns (I share them) but life's too short and apparantly there have been no returns in 20 years, my fav guitar(a classical)has no truss rod too :P

It's actually really nice not to have to worry about a truss rod, time will tell if it works out in the long run . The set-up is perfect with 9-46, I ussually use 10-46 but I'm not doing anything to change the setup untill I have to! It actually has a little bit of relief in the neck, it's not dead straight.

It's dead light too, like 6lb light.

Thanks for the comments :)
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Zaned on May 20, 2009, 08:25:10 PM
I totally understand the truss rod concerns (I share them) but life's too short and apparantly there have been no returns in 20 years, my fav guitar(a classical)has no truss rod too :P

It's actually really nice not to have to worry about a truss rod, time will tell if it works out in the long run . The set-up is perfect with 9-46, I ussually use 10-46 but I'm not doing anything to change the setup untill I have to! It actually has a little bit of relief in the neck, it's not dead straight.

It's dead light too, like 6lb light.

Thanks for the comments :)

I wouldn't worry about it anyway :) And I'm not surprised that it has relief, on the contrary.

My strats neck on the other hand requires a little work every now and then. About once every 5-10 years, the neck needs to be pressed back to form (these are the words the luthier used), as the neck can bend on the first few frets. This is also where the normal truss rod takes effect. Well, the guitar was built in 1990 and I'm gonna have the procedure done in the following few months :) I'm the 3rd owner, the procedure has been done once already for this guitar.

The luthier also said that the non-trussrod design was an experiment, and he found out that some of the necks had to treated with the procedure I described above. He quit doing it before there would be too much future work for them. However, outside that procedure the necks work really well, and they don't have any iron colouring the tone. Just pure wood.

-Zaned
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: MDV on May 20, 2009, 08:30:21 PM
Thats a nice top

No truss though? I couldnt trust that.
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Dr. Vic on May 20, 2009, 09:59:30 PM
No truss though? I couldnt trust that.

 :lol: what a pun !


here is an exerpt from the Vigier catalog you can download here :

http://www.vigierguitars.com/page/fiche_produit.php?id_prod=222&onglet=pdf


10/90 Neck System™ : This exclusive advanced concept of 10% carbon and 90% wood replaces the traditional metal truss rod with a dense carbon strip to reinforce the neck. Employed for over 20 years on all Vigier guitars and basses, this concept makes the neck strong and stable during climate change. To get a full sound, we never believed it was logical to drill a hole through a neck and then insert a rod of metal inside. Necks with the 10/90 System are solid, notes ring longer, and your sound is powerful and precise. Wood necks with truss rods are too flexible; they absorb the energy of the string and shorten sustain. Our 10/90 Neck System also contributes to tuning stability because with wood necks, the metal truss rod rubs and causes detuning problems while using the tremolo.


Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: MDV on May 20, 2009, 10:02:04 PM
No truss though? I couldnt trust that.

 :lol: what a pun !


here is an exerpt from the Vigier catalog you can download here :

http://www.vigierguitars.com/page/fiche_produit.php?id_prod=222&onglet=pdf


10/90 Neck System™ : This exclusive advanced concept of 10% carbon and 90% wood replaces the traditional metal truss rod with a dense carbon strip to reinforce the neck. Employed for over 20 years on all Vigier guitars and basses, this concept makes the neck strong and stable during climate change. To get a full sound, we never believed it was logical to drill a hole through a neck and then insert a rod of metal inside. Necks with the 10/90 System are solid, notes ring longer, and your sound is powerful and precise. Wood necks with truss rods are too flexible; they absorb the energy of the string and shorten sustain. Our 10/90 Neck System also contributes to tuning stability because with wood necks, the metal truss rod rubs and causes detuning problems while using the tremolo.




I'm here all week.

Well, fair enough, but a composite neck built well does the same thing (stability and vibration transmission), add a double acting truss and you also have control over the relief.

Just sayin
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Dr. Vic on May 20, 2009, 10:10:32 PM

I'm here all week. 

Yeah, cool ! I knew that  :D ! But for the rest, well don't know really..... I trust you on the double truss analysis    :lol:

 
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: dave_mc on May 20, 2009, 11:31:32 PM
I'd probably be considered anal but... I was sold it as a new guitar and was told the dings and scratches happened in the shop. I contacted Briggs himself and was informed it had been stolen - it wasn't the end of the world but I was a bit miffed I didn't get the story when I'd dropped 2 big ones on it.
It came to pass that it had in fact been M.I.A for anything up to a year (remember it was sold as a new guitar)... anyway when I restrung it the nut poped off the guitar, argh!
The tail piece studs were really lose as well and with tension on it leaned forward a fair bit.
It wouldn't stay in tune at all it just kept dropping half a tone with the lightest use - I restrung it again as I had alot of winds on the posts and thought that my bad stringing might be the issue. But again it still wouldn't stay in tune, a few strums and it would drop half a tone. I was just peed off at this point and cut my losses. The issues were def set-up/condition issues, Briggs make wicked sick guitars.

The shop were good about it though and took it back with out much bother, they were pretty eager to repair it but that wasn't working for me.

Probably all sounds a bit Alan Partridge :lol: but I expect certain things at this price point.


I wasn't 100% fussed on the pickups

Ye I bought it thinking that the bridge pickup could maybe do with a replacement when I get round to it, it'sok for high gain but its really pokey, not a big deal though. The guitar overall has a really nice tight midrange voice maybe because the necks a teeny bit longer than a Fender.
 
It has a really nice tight, mid-rangey articulate voice, maybe due to the slightly longer than Fender scale.
I played a Hamer Talledaga and Mon Elite there too and was really dissapointed with them they both had a really wooly muffled tone, shame as I've really loved the Hamers I've owned before.



i don't think you're being anal at all, i agree with you. Pretty much exactly what philly said. :)

I think the ones i tried with dimarzios had pretty low output pickups (I think I've tried your model, it's the ultra blues, right?), I didn't really like them as they got a bit wooly/muddy-sounding with high gain, and didn't sound all that amazing for the lower gain stuff either. but the Virtual Vintage noiseless "single coils" were pretty nice.
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Lew on May 20, 2009, 11:56:49 PM
Yea the ultra blues, it's interesting you thought it sounded  wooly/muddy as part of my choice came down to it having a really tight and articulate voice under gain (test amp was a new evh). I directly compared it to a Hamer Talledega, Hamer Monaco Elite, Melancon T and two Briggs and with the exception of the single coil Melancon T it was the most defined and articulate.
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: dave_mc on May 21, 2009, 12:33:57 AM
that's possible. now that i remember, I think i liked the tone of the ultra blues best (other than the floyded one with duncans) out of the couple I tried.
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Lew on May 21, 2009, 03:17:00 AM
To be honest Dimarzio have never been my thing but I'm going to see how it works getting recorded first, I think the pokeyness may work well in a full mix. If not I'll look at bkp  8)
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Lew on May 21, 2009, 03:20:41 AM

I wouldn't worry about it anyway :) And I'm not surprised that it has relief, on the contrary.

My strats neck on the other hand requires a little work every now and then. About once every 5-10 years, the neck needs to be pressed back to form (these are the words the luthier used), as the neck can bend on the first few frets. This is also where the normal truss rod takes effect. Well, the guitar was built in 1990 and I'm gonna have the procedure done in the following few months :) I'm the 3rd owner, the procedure has been done once already for this guitar.

The luthier also said that the non-trussrod design was an experiment, and he found out that some of the necks had to treated with the procedure I described above. He quit doing it before there would be too much future work for them. However, outside that procedure the necks work really well, and they don't have any iron colouring the tone. Just pure wood.

-Zaned

Sounds interesting. I know Mcinturf did some experiments using carbon in maple he knew to be unstable and the wood still had its way regardless of the carbon  8)
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Lew on May 21, 2009, 03:02:27 PM
that's possible. now that i remember, I think i liked the tone of the ultra blues best (other than the floyded one with duncans) out of the couple I tried.

oh just found out that the singles are actually stacked buckers, thought they were quiet  :lol:
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: dave_mc on May 21, 2009, 09:52:24 PM
yeah, they are. actually pretty good for stacked, i thought.
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Lew on May 21, 2009, 10:50:23 PM
The strap pins are set in a brass casting. I've always wondered why that isn't done as the norm, I've stripped more strap button holes than I care to remember.
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Lew on May 23, 2009, 04:45:48 PM
natural light shows the true colour

(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/80/p5230020e.jpg)
(http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/5339/p5230004.jpg)
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Philly Q on May 23, 2009, 06:57:09 PM
Ooh, looks even better!

How does the ball-bearing-fulcrum-thing feel when using the trem?  I've always been curious about that.
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Ian Price on May 23, 2009, 07:26:47 PM
That looks awesome Lew! Starting to revise my opinion about it now, it's growing on me daily.
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Lew on May 23, 2009, 08:17:05 PM
Thanks both, natural light is so much better than a flash  :D

Philly, it just feels like any good 2 point trem tbh, good smooth movement and easy to use.
I'd be lying if I said it felt any different but the tuning stability is amazing, you can really go to town on it and the tuning wont budge and I can go drop D without any tuning issues as well, the set-up is flawless.The string lays in a wheel on the saddle, that's cool as hell - I'll take a pic sometime.

Edit: found a pic of the saddle wheel thing http://www.performing-musician.com/pm/nov08/images/Vigier_01.jpg
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: dave_mc on May 23, 2009, 08:54:20 PM
sweet :D I haven't seen one in that colour before. the ultra blues i tried was a kind of lilac colour which, although it sounds horrendous, actually looked awesome.
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Philly Q on May 23, 2009, 09:35:12 PM
Although superstrats are not my thing at all, if I ever get one it'll have to be a Vigier*.  I really like the way they've developed their own unique design features and stuck with them.  And the fact it's a European company that's managed to survive 30 years without selling out adds to the appeal.


(* Or a Hamer Diablo, as I've said more than once before!  :lol: )
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Lew on May 23, 2009, 10:26:49 PM
I'd much prefer a Californian to a Diablo  :D

I think they're playing on the Shawn Lane and Bumblefoot/Guns 'n' Roses thing a little bit now but yea certainly not like most companies, yea the design features are awesome - even the string tree design has clearly been really thought out.
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Philly Q on May 23, 2009, 11:11:47 PM
The Californian is too Kramer/ESP/Jackson looking for me, more typical superstrat territory.  Whereas the Diablo is more Strat/N4, nice and simple. 

Which is good... we won't be bidding against each other if they come up on eBay.   :D
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Lew on May 24, 2009, 12:12:46 AM
The Californian is too Kramer/ESP/Jackson looking for me, more typical superstrat territory.  Whereas the Diablo is more Strat/N4, nice and simple. 

Which is good... we won't be bidding against each other if they come up on eBay.   :D

haha  8)
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Lew on June 01, 2009, 11:58:37 PM
rough clip  8)

link gone :O
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Lew on June 23, 2009, 03:31:56 AM
(http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9498/p6200027.jpg)

Mods done - a new 'bucker, straplocks, killswitch and the tone pot is now a blender to go between full and tapped :D
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: James C on June 23, 2009, 08:30:35 AM
Looks cool, i got scared as all hell changing stuff on my vigier, but the EMGs needed to go, Nailbombs FTW!
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Lew on June 23, 2009, 03:43:34 PM
PICS!! :D

Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: James C on June 23, 2009, 04:56:54 PM
Will need to wait till i get home to take pics.

....slightly off topic question, how low do the strings sit in the nut of your vigier? as i've seen them sit too low for comfort on some, and i have returned one to the factory before where the strings have cut in behind the nut.
Title: Re: It's french and doesn't have a trussrod!
Post by: Lew on June 23, 2009, 05:06:55 PM
Look forward to pics  :D

Yea they do sit low, but it's not an issue afaik because of the zero fret setting the height. Although having said that... the zero fret does have some divots - as expected with constant pressure on it I guess.

I remember reading somewhere that Vigier offer replacements, maybe even free. I may get one and ask a luthier to make one with exactly the same dimensions but in stainless steel - Wez, Jonathan?  8)