Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => The Dressing Room => Topic started by: Ian Price on May 27, 2009, 08:54:01 PM
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Just listening to 2112 and have a question for the rush fans on here. Who assumes control at the end of 2112? Is it the elders or the priests? I'm confused :?
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It's the Solar Federation, which includes the Priests of Syrinx. The hero in this tale commits suicide when he realizes that the world of his dreams will never be realized, especially after the priests destroy the only extant musical instrument left on the planet.
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"I lie awake, staring out at the bleakness of Megadon. City and sky become one, merging into a single plane, a vast sea of unbroken grey. The Twin Moons, just two pale orbs as they trace their way across the steely sky. I used to think I had a pretty good life here, just plugging into my machine for the day, then watching Templevision or reading a Temple Paper in the evening.
"My friend Jon always said it was nicer here than under the atmospheric domes of the Outer Planets. We have had peace since 2062, when the surviving planets were banded together under the Red Star of the Solar Federation. The less fortunate gave us a few new moons.
I believed what I was told. I thought it was a good life, I thought I was happy. Then I found something that changed it all..."
I. Overture
And the meek shall inherit the earth...
II. Temples of Syrinx
... "The massive grey walls of the Temples rise from the heart of every Federation city. I have always been awed by them, to think that every single facet of every life is regulated and directed from within! Our books, our music, our work and play are all looked after by the benevolent wisdom of the priests..."
We've taken care of everything
The words you hear, the songs you sing
The pictures that give pleasure to your eyes.
It's one for all and all for one
We work together, common sons
Never need to wonder how or why.
We are the Priests of the Temples of Syrinx
Our great computers fill the hallowed halls.
We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx
All the gifts of life are held within our walls.
Look around at this world we've made
Equality our stock in trade
Come and join the Brotherhood of Man
Oh, what a nice, contented world
Let the banners be unfurled
Hold the Red Star proudly high in hand.
We are the Priests of the Temples of Syrinx
Our great computers fill the hallowed halls.
We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx
All the gifts of life are held within our walls.
III. Discovery
... "Behind my beloved waterfall, in the little room that was hidden beneath the cave, I found it. I brushed away the dust of the years, and picked it up, holding it reverently in my hands. I had no idea what it might be, but it was beautiful" ...
... "I learned to lay my fingers across the wires, and to turn the keys to make them sound differently. As I struck the wires with my other hand, I produced my first harmonious sounds, and soon my own music! How different it could be from the music of the Temples! I can't wait to tell the priests about it! ..."
What can this strange device be?
When I touch it, it gives forth a sound
It's got wires that vibrate and give music
What can this thing be that I found?
See how it sings like a sad heart
And joyously screams out its pain
Sounds that build high like a mountain
Or notes that fall gently like rain.
I can't wait to share this new wonder
The people will all see its light
Let them all make their own music
The Priests praise my name on this night.
IV. Presentation
... "In the sudden silence as I finished playing, I looked up to a circle of grim, expressionless faces. Father Brown rose to his feet, and his somnolent voice echoed throughout the silent Temple Hall." ...
... "Instead of the grateful joy that I expected, they were words of quiet rejection! Instead of praise, sullen dismissal. I watched in shock and horror as Father Brown ground my precious instrument to splinters beneath his feet..."
I know it's most unusual
To come before you so
But I've found an ancient miracle
I thought that you should know
Listen to my music
And hear what it can do
There's something here as strong as life
I know that it will reach you.
Yes, we know, it's nothing new
It's just a waste of time
We have no need for ancient ways
Our world is doing fine
Another toy will help destroy
The elder race of man
Forget about your silly whim
It doesn't fit the plan.
I can't believe you're saying
These things just can't be true
Our world could use this beauty
Just think what we might do.
Listen to my music
And hear what it can do
There's something here as strong as life
I know that it will reach you.
Don't annoy us further!
We have our work to do.
Just think about the average
What use have they for you?
Another toy will help destroy
The elder race of man
Forget about your silly whim
It doesn't fit the Plan!
V. Oracle: The Dream
... "I guess it was a dream, but even now it all seems so vivid to me. Clearly yet I see the beckoning hand of the oracle as he stood at the summit of the staircase" ...
... "I see still the incredible beauty of the sculptured cities and the pure spirit of man revealed in the lives and works of this world. I was overwhelmed by both wonder and understanding as I saw a completely different way to life, a way that had been crushed by the Federation long ago. I saw now how meaningless life had become with the loss of all these things ..."
I wandered home though the silent streets
And fell into a fitful sleep
Escape to realms beyond the night
Dream can't you show me the light?
I stand atop a spiral stair
An oracle confronts me there
He leads me on light years away
Through astral nights, galactic days
I see the works of gifted hands
That grace this strange and wondrous land
I see the hand of man arise
With hungry mind and open eyes
They left the planet long ago
The elder race still learn and grow
Their power grows with purpose strong
To claim the home where they belong
Home to tear the Temples down...
Home to change!
VI. Soliloquy
... "I have not left this cave for days now, it has become my last refuge in my total despair. I have only the music of the waterfall to comfort me now. I can no longer live under the control of the Federation, but there is no other place to go. My last hope is that with my death I may pass into the world of my dream, and know peace at last."
The sleep is still in my eyes
The dream is still in my head
I heave a sigh and sadly smile
And lie a while in bed
I wish that it might come to pass
Not fade like all my dreams...
Just think of what my life might be
In a world like I have seen!
I don't think I can carry on
Carry on this cold and empty life
My spirits are low in the depths of despair
My lifeblood...
...spills over...
VII. The Grand Finale
Attention all Planets of the Solar Federation
Attention all Planets of the Solar Federation
Attention all Planets of the Solar Federation
We have assumed control.
We have assumed control.
We have assumed control.
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Cheers Ben! It's the use of the word "assumed" in "assumed control" that makes me wonder. If the red star federation were in control, had it challenged by the elders and won wouldn't they have said something like regained or resumed control? Maybe I'm taking it too literally (or not literally enough!)
Great song/story though!
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Since the solar federation never lost control and he sings of the elder race growing in power and the voice is different it is clear he kills himself assuming he has had a vision of something that will never be only for it to happen just as he dies
The elder race never lost control they just left they weren't defeated and the assumtion is the right term
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where is the 'over my head' smiley?
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where is the 'over my head' smiley?
+1.
All this bollocks sounds interesting though...
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where is the 'over my head' smiley?
It's on your avatar's face!
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where is the 'over my head' smiley?
It's on your avatar's face!
touche
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I always hope Neal Peart is a bit embarrassed in hindsight at all the Ann Rand worship and US-nurtured-Commie-terror present in 2112.
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I always hope Neal Peart is a bit embarrassed in hindsight at all the Ann Rand worship and US-nurtured-Commie-terror present in 2112.
With the millions he has earned I'm sure he isn't too worried about that :)
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Well yeah, there is that.
Still, you'd hope that having an in sleeve dedication to a right wing buffoon makes you regret things a little, even if you don't regret the houses it bought you.
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It sounds like you know nothing about Peart, his ideals or philosophies, nor the circumstances that surrounded the concept of 2112 ... Read one of his books before casting aspersions his way! And you misspelled Ayn Rand ...
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Since the solar federation never lost control and he sings of the elder race growing in power
No, his vision of the Elder Race was a dream. They are long dead!!! The lyrics are a blend of many things -- part sci fi story, part "Objectivism Made Easy" and part autobiographical about what was happening to the band during that time.
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No, his vision of the Elder Race was a dream. They are long dead!!!
Cheers Ben - didn't clock that the elder race bit was all in the dream. That makes it easier to follow!
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And you misspelled Ayn Rand ...
:lol:
I've read The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged (my favourite - it was actually a life changing experience for me reading that one).
Can't remember Fountainhead, but I certainly didn't pick up on any "right wing preaching at me" at all in Atlas Shrugged - it seemed to me that the biggest message is: "be yourself, stay true to that, be proud of what you do and what you add, don't expect a free lunch (there might be one, but it's not yours as-of-right), and do not ever take the credit for someone else's effort..."
...but ever since I first read it, people have been saying Ayn Rand was a right wing commie-hater or similar to me... if that makes me right-wing too... oh well! (Can I borrow your over-my-head smiley Wez? :lol:) I can say that I tried some of her essays about art once, I could see what she was getting at, but she was boring as hell!! So I don't know too much else about her apart from the fact the Atlas Shrugged was a ripping yarn and it changed me big time.
I imagine something very similar happened to Mr Peart and he was able to take what it did to him, add some of himself and then express it in his own way...
And, though I might be wrong, I really don't think he'll be in the least embarrassed about it, nfe :lol: - I suspect he'll be too proud of having created something and achieved roughly what he set out to do at the time, hopefully he's politely humble about it, but he should be proud, it's a fine piece of imagination (btw - I hated 2112 as pretentious screechy b*llshite when it came out :lol:... kinda like it now in my old age...)
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It sounds like you know nothing about Peart, his ideals or philosophies, nor the circumstances that surrounded the concept of 2112 ... Read one of his books before casting aspersions his way! And you misspelled Ayn Rand ...
+1
...I certainly didn't pick up on any "right wing preaching at me" at all in Atlas Shrugged - it seemed to me that the biggest message is: "be yourself, stay true to that, be proud of what you do and what you add, don't expect a free lunch (there might be one, but it's not yours as-of-right), and do not ever take the credit for someone else's effort..."
...but ever since I first read it, people have been saying Ayn Rand was a right wing commie-hater or similar to me... if that makes me right-wing too... oh well! (Can I borrow your over-my-head smiley Wez? :lol:)
+1
& why is it OK for morons like Rage Against the Machine to idolise a murdering savage like Che Guevara because he's "left" wing, but it's not OK to be "right wing"? Talk about hypocrisy :roll:
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We're getting dangerously close to "politics" here :lol:
Let's try to get it back to 2112 (bear with me :))
For me personally, I think it's OK for anyone to express an opinion - this even includes hate-filled opinions, in my book, I'm afraid.
It's up to each one of us to decide whether we want to listen to that opinion, agree with it, disagree with it, ignore it, express another opinion about it, act on it, fight it, endorse it, wotever...
Funnily enough, that's also one of the things I got from Atlas Shrugged :roll: (I suspect Mr Peart did as well)
Personally, I am highly suspicious of any idealogy (religious, political, social). Most of them, at heart, seem to require a "leap of faith" that cannot be proved, understood, or explained clearly. And this leap of faith must be made, at the behest of someone else who often seems to want some sort of power over you, in order to accept the idealogy and endorse it. For me, there seem to be a whole lot of widely accepted concepts that appear to ask us to deny what we are: individuals with our abilities to think and to choose.
But that's just where my journey has taken me - once I say it out loud or write it, it's just an opinion like anyone else's. And I, possibly to my own (self?) destruction, would defend others who want to express a different one :)
Re-(skim)-reading the 2112 stuff, old Peartie's lyrics seem to have captured that as well. They still come across as a bit pretentious on paper for my liking - but they sound quite emotional when you listen to the album, they appeal to all sorts of primal stuff in me, and like others have said, they tell a good story that gets you thinking...
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You're right. Sorry, got out on the wrong side this morning... :)
Interesting stuff about the concept/lyrics. I've always been mesmerised by the guitar playing (in particular, the Discovery section) & the flow of the song...
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Yeah, I missed that bit out - the thing I like most about 2112 is the music, the "whole package", vocals, guitars, drums and all. I don't usually follow the lyrical "concept" on a concept album/piece too closely, because I know you have to bend things to fit them in, and they won't always bear too much inspection. But the music and lyrics do support each other well, and musically it's a concept as well.
I've got to be in the right mood because I find it a quite "bright" and aggressive sounding album to listen to, but I can certainly hear now why some of my contempories back at school were completely taken up with it.
For me it's right up there with Suppers Ready! (another one I hated when I was young, but adore now :))
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We're getting dangerously close to "politics" here :lol:
+1. It was only a simple (well simpleish) question :o
Let's try to get it back to 2112 (bear with me :))
For me personally, I think it's OK for anyone to express an opinion - this even includes hate-filled opinions, in my book, I'm afraid.
It's up to each one of us to decide whether we want to listen to that opinion, agree with it, disagree with it, ignore it, express another opinion about it, act on it, fight it, endorse it, wotever...
and +1 on that. Was watching Deja Vu last night. David Crosby said that good art should prompt a reaction whether you agree with it or not - be it a good or bad reaction it still prompts one. 2112 definitely does that in my book!
On the same film there was also some ultra conservative woman commenting that "CSNY have no right to use the stage to express their political beliefs to a large audience of people and that musicians shouldn;t be allowed to use their position of power to get their message across". Outrageous!
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the thing I like most about 2112 is the music, the "whole package", vocals, guitars, drums and all.
Another raging endorsement from me on that! Not sure about Tears but the rest of the album is top quality. Pearts drumming is immense - I'd never really listened to drummers before him. His best performance IMO is on Natural Science.
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the thing I like most about 2112 is the music, the "whole package", vocals, guitars, drums and all.
Another raging endorsement from me on that! Not sure about Tears but the rest of the album is top quality. Pearts drumming is immense - I'd never really listened to drummers before him. His best performance IMO is on Natural Science.
Check out Hold Your Fire if you want what is some of the most technical (yet musical) drumming ever recorded!
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& why is it OK for morons like Rage Against the Machine to idolise a murdering savage like Che Guevara because he's "left" wing, but it's not OK to be "right wing"? Talk about hypocrisy :roll:
It isn't, and you'll find I've slated RATM for their immensely uneducated, juvenile politics on this very forum before. But generally, it's ok to be left wing because it finds it's basis in a hope for equality for all people, whilst it's not ok to be right wing because it finds it's basis in superiority for a minority.
I love Rush incidentally, love them to bits, but I'm also a bit too politically aware to just disregard some things.
OH, and I spelt Ann Rand right, it's her that spells it wrong. :lol:
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Just going back to the original question, I always thought it was some other, unknown, alien race who "assumed control" at the end.
So the Priests have won, our hero has killed himself.... but then a force bigger and more powerful than the Priests turns up to kick them into touch! So it ends on a (possibly) positive note....
(Disclaimer: That's just my impression, I've never read up on the background or what Peart may have intended)
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where is the 'over my head' smiley?
+1 haha, I've never bothered to read into any lyrics, they're all a load of bollocks to me :lol:
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Just going back to the original question, I always thought it was some other, unknown, alien race who "assumed control" at the end.
So the Priests have won, our hero has killed himself.... but then a force bigger and more powerful than the Priests turns up to kick them into touch! So it ends on a (possibly) positive note....
(Disclaimer: That's just my impression, I've never read up on the background or what Peart may have intended)
That is the strangest interpretation of 2112 I have ever heard!
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where is the 'over my head' smiley?
+1 haha, I've never bothered to read into any lyrics, they're all a load of bollocks to me :lol:
I feel very sorry for you, then. You're missing out.
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+1 haha, I've never bothered to read into any lyrics, they're all a load of bollocks to me :lol:
I feel very sorry for you, then. You're missing out.
[/quote]
I had a similar conversation with my partner a while ago. I was talking about the lyrics on a song (I think it was by Dylan, can't remember the song though) and she told me she never listens to the lyrics as it "wasn't that important". I must say that I was a little annoyed about that statement and got in a bit of a huff!
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I had a similar conversation with my partner a while ago. I was talking about the lyrics on a song (I think it was by Dylan, can't remember the song though) and she told me she never listens to the lyrics as it "wasn't that important". I must say that I was a little annoyed about that statement and got in a bit of a huff!
With folk music it's the most important thing by a million miles! I can accept in music where there are lots of hooks or a lot going on instrumentally it can take a back seat, and there are lots of bands who say themselves that the lyrics are totally irrelevant, they're just words to go with the noises (Mastodon, Mike Patton, Devin Townsend spring to mind) but when things are fairly minimilist, what else are folk listening to!? :lol:
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Just going back to the original question, I always thought it was some other, unknown, alien race who "assumed control" at the end.
So the Priests have won, our hero has killed himself.... but then a force bigger and more powerful than the Priests turns up to kick them into touch! So it ends on a (possibly) positive note....
(Disclaimer: That's just my impression, I've never read up on the background or what Peart may have intended)
That is the strangest interpretation of 2112 I have ever heard!
As I say, just my impression. To me, the deep voice suggests it's someone other than the Priests, who are represented throughout the song by Geddy singing in that strident screechy voice.
Anyway, do the Priests need to "assume control"? They're already in power, all that's happened is one little guy has turned up and waved a musical instrument at them. And the music in the Grand Finale suggests that there's some kind of battle going on.
Thinking about it, if it was the Elder Race coming back, that would fit in with the verse of "The Dream". It's not necessarily just a dream, it could be a premonition:
They left the planet long ago
The elder race still learn and grow
Their power grows with purpose strong
To claim the home where they belong
Home to tear the Temples down...
Home to change!
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I always thought that it was the Elders coming back, but I've not really given it any thought since I was twelve.
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I know what tom means...
I have an admission to make - I am a lyricist, and I rarely concentrate on lyrics on their own (even when I listen to Bob Dylan :lol:) I kinda believe that's not really what they're designed for...
Lyrics are meant to be heard, not read (usually), and the sounds are as important as any meaning that we can glean from them.
Really good lyrics do both and allow people like me and tom, and people who are more interested in the meaning, to enjoy them at the same time.
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I always thought that it was the Elders coming back, but I've not really given it any thought since I was twelve.
It's not something I think about every day either, but since it's the topic under discussion....
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I always thought that it was the Elders coming back, but I've not really given it any thought since I was twelve.
I appreciate its your opinion and all, but... manners? They don't really cost you anything.
I have the album on my computer, but have not actually listened to it! I will get it onto my iTunes PC and ipod tomorrow and see what all this kerfuffle is about :D
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I always thought that it was the Elders coming back, but I've not really given it any thought since I was twelve.
It's not something I think about every day either, but since it's the topic under discussion....
It's funny (funny strange, not funny ha ha) because no one is really certain what that ending is about. However you slice it, it's a great song.
Personally, I disagree with the idea that it's another race assuming control because the Solar Fedaration is HUGE and would put the smack down on ANYONE that tried to interfere.
That being said ... your interpretation, while strange to me, is pretty valid. I'll make sure to ask Peart whenever I meet him!!! PDT_008
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I know what tom means...
I have an admission to make - I am a lyricist, and I rarely concentrate on lyrics on their own (even when I listen to Bob Dylan :lol:) I kinda believe that's not really what they're designed for...
Lyrics are meant to be heard, not read (usually), and the sounds are as important as any meaning that we can glean from them.
Really good lyrics do both and allow people like me and tom, and people who are more interested in the meaning, to enjoy them at the same time.
I think good lyrics are nice to have but not essential since the melody is more important to me. But you need to be able to remember the words as well.. so I dont really know what I'm trying to get at here :lol:
Then again I dont really like the prog rock stuff which seems to tell more of a proper story than other songs.
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^ lol you just talked yourself into a circle!!
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I'm good at doing that haha
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I always thought that it was the Elders coming back, but I've not really given it any thought since I was twelve.
I appreciate its your opinion and all, but... manners? They don't really cost you anything.
:? ?
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The give away is the 'attention all planets of the solar federation' -- no incumbent power would refer to their empire in that way - they are the solar federation - they would possibly use the term federation an external force would refer to them in that form hence my understanding that the solar federation was being taken over.
They would also not be refereing to the planets of the solar federation if they were assuming control how can they assume control if they are already in control they would refer to them as the rebel planets etc.
The line 'home to change!' - is indicative of an action
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Christ on crutches, what on earth are you lot on about. You'll all be throwing D20s and moaning about not getting a critical hit before we know it!
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The give away is the 'attention all planets of the solar federation' -- no incumbent power would refer to their empire in that way
True. It is the Priests that assume control, not these mythical elder race that exist only in the dreams (which represents the art of that age -- in this case, the music, which is destroyed by those same Priests) of a manic depressive.
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I like Danger Danger, I like sunny days & hugs. I like cheese burgers and I like the beach. They make me smile :)
I do not understand this thread, it makes me sad inside :(
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I think good lyrics are nice to have but not essential since the melody is more important to me. But you need to be able to remember the words as well.. so I dont really know what I'm trying to get at here :lol:
Then again I dont really like the prog rock stuff which seems to tell more of a proper story than other songs.
^ lol you just talked yourself into a circle!!
I'm good at doing that haha
:lol:
I still know what you mean tom! Even if no-one else does... and trying to explain it usually does end up going in circles!
Unless I'm listening for a specific reason, I don't listen to music for the lyrics, I also don't listen to it for the guitars, or the drums, or any specific bit... I do hear all those things, but usually I'm listening to music for a more general thing: an emotional experience.
Everything the artiste/producer has put on there adds to that experience.
If there are lyrics involved, I feel that they do need to be "good", because cr@p lyrics stick out a mile, aren't memorable, or they are memorable for the wrong reason! (Bear in mind that we all have a different idea of "good" when it comes to lyrics :lol:)
But the lyrics of something I'm listening to, and their meaning when taken in isolation, are an area that I concentrate on quite some time later, if at all, in my relationship with a piece of music. Often, I've already heard it enough to have learnt the lyrics subconsciously before I even worry about what they mean as a whole.
It does mean I might miss out on something that others are getting enjoyment/etc from, though.
For example, when Rush were making these albums, I loathed this pretentious type of story-telling concept thing in long rock/pop songs. I liked this particular album (but never owned it) for the guitars and not much else. Then I bought it on CD a year or so ago - and I discovered there's more to it than meets the eye.
And now this thread has made me appreciate far more what a fine job Mr Peart did on the lyrics and lyrical concept on this piece. I finally got into prog-rock and concept pieces in the mid-90s via Jethro Tull and Thick as Brick (about 15 years after I should have done... :lol:). T-as-a-B finally broke the barrier for me so that I was prepared to listen to a band I'd hated in the 70's early 80's - Genesis. I grew very fond of Supper's Ready, Musical Box, Lamb Lies Down. I quite like the Ian Anderson and Peter Gabriel approach to "concepts" - stream of consciousness. But someone else could regard it as a bit lazy and meaningless - what they've done is write little snippets of meaning and emotion and then cobbled them all together in a way that they can pass off as a "complete work" rather than working them up properly to produce several or many finished songs. The thing is, although this is "easier" to do, you still have to do it well, and it leaves so much space for the listener to interpret and add his/her own emotional reaction.
What Mr Peart has done (in my view, when I try to do anything along these lines) requires far more work - he's written an entire set of lyrics that hang together and are focussed from start to finish. And he's left space for interpretation - class :D
However, I still personally prefer the Anderson/Gabriel/Bowie/Lennon/etc stream-of-gibberish approach if it's done well... because I don't concentrate on the lyrics when I first get to know or appreciate a piece of music!
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I like Danger Danger, I like sunny days & hugs. I like cheese burgers and I like the beach. They make me smile :)
I do not understand this thread, it makes me sad inside :(
:lol: :lol:
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I like Danger Danger, I like sunny days & hugs. I like cheese burgers and I like the beach. They make me smile :)
I do not understand this thread, it makes me sad inside :(
:lol: :lol:
Good! As they say in the South:
Don't let the door hit ya where the dog shoulda bit ya on the way out!! PDT_008
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But generally, it's ok to be left wing because it finds it's basis in a hope for equality for all people, whilst it's not ok to be right wing because it finds it's basis in superiority for a minority.
LOLOLLLOLL!!1!!!1
Moron!
There is no left or right. It's all the same. "equality for all people" means that we are all peasants / slaves. Except not all. This is the hypocrisy of the "left". Ruling class is exempt, special rules for special people.
Standing for freedom, liberty, the right to rule your own destiny makes you a "bigot" in todayspeak. Dare to excel or succeed and you will come under attack.
Fire away, peasant. Please tell me of the joys of your mediocrity, and how wrong I am in "yearning to be free."
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Red One, Stay on target!!
aka
STAY ON TOPIC!!! Please don't make me get out my red pen and scissors. ;)
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Red One, Stay on target!!
aka
STAY ON TOPIC!!! Please don't make me get out my red pen and scissors. ;)
Cheers Ben! I was hoping that a sensible note would be posted in response! What a good moderator you are, 10 brownie points for you :lol:
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Sorry.....I was only trying to channel the emotion that penned 2112.....
:D
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Sorry.....I was only trying to channel the emotion that penned 2112.....
:D
:lol: Nice try... but you needed to find a way to clearly link a discussion on the merits of nfe's statement with the concepts that Mr Peart explores in 2112 ...
I suspect that a link of that sort would be a bit tenuous though - most of Peart's piece seems to centre on a questioning individual's difficulties with a state that does not want free-thought (although he spoils it with a "Red Star", which has resonances for all of us, even more so back in the late 70s).
Aside from that Red Star, 2112 isn't really discussing specific political idealogies - a set of ideas to be used as tools to control people and make them do what you think they should - which is what both "right" and "left" are...
No! 2112's all about "stickin it to de man" (or sadly not, in this case), like all good rock and roll should be :lol:
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FYI, the Red Star of the Federation was inspired by the ole Texas 'barn star'.
http://www.artisticmetalart.com/files/1672165/uploaded/texas-barn-star-solid-red.JPG
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FYI, the Red Star of the Federation was inspired by the ole Texas 'barn star'.
http://www.artisticmetalart.com/files/1672165/uploaded/texas-barn-star-solid-red.JPG
Many thanks :D, I was really disappointed just now when I spotted that "Red Star" in there, I thought "Mr Peart, what have you done?!" but if it's Texas after all - "yeehaw!" :lol:
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If you really wanna know all the ins and outs of Pearts' lyrics, look for the uber rare Grace Under Pressure Rush biog. There are a couple of other ones out there, too, like Martin Popoff's Contents Under Pressure and Jon Collins' Chemistry: the Definitive Biography, but they don't go into the same detail about the lyrics.
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2112 isn't really discussing specific political idealogies - a set of ideas to be used as tools to control people and make them do what you think they should - which is what both "right" and "left" are...
....which is exactly what I said. To clarify, "right" and "left" are no longer useful terms in describing political ideologies. It's all pretty much the same hypocritical corrupt BS. These divisions are promoted as a smokescreen to cover the fact that worldwide, in pretty much the last 100 years, all governments have grown massively, and massively intrude in the private citizens' business.
So to say something like "Our socialist government is better than your facist government" or "left is better than right" is a very silly idea to me, you may as well put your brown shirt on and march in goose step, it's the same notion with a different flag.
2112 to me, is not about a specific political ideology, rather a commentary on the dangers of where we are going with the whole global government, New World Order, one world money system, Communist threat, Trilateral Commission, or whatever BS label you want to put on it.
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The give away is the 'attention all planets of the solar federation' -- no incumbent power would refer to their empire in that way
True. It is the Priests that assume control, not these mythical elder race that exist only in the dreams (which represents the art of that age -- in this case, the music, which is destroyed by those same Priests) of a manic depressive.
If it were the priests then it would be their voice it is not it is a new voice on the album one not heard before - the elder race. They have a tonal dialogue for each of the protagonists in the lyric.
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2112 isn't really discussing specific political idealogies - a set of ideas to be used as tools to control people and make them do what you think they should - which is what both "right" and "left" are...
....which is exactly what I said. To clarify, "right" and "left" are no longer useful terms in describing political ideologies.
What total, total nonsense.
Now, what's Bytor and the Snow Dog about?
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Now, what's Bytor and the Snow Dog about?
Buggered if I know. But I never understood why By-Tor's the baddie in "By-Tor and the Snow Dog" and a goodie in "The Necromancer".
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what's Bytor and the Snow Dog about?
Not funny, leading question, and irrelevant!
Objection!!
(I always wanted to be a TV lawyer! :) )
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2112 isn't really discussing specific political idealogies - a set of ideas to be used as tools to control people and make them do what you think they should - which is what both "right" and "left" are...
....which is exactly what I said. To clarify, "right" and "left" are no longer useful terms in describing political ideologies.
What total, total nonsense.
Just stop it already.
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what's Bytor and the Snow Dog about?
Not funny, leading question, and irrelevant!
Objection!!
(I always wanted to be a TV lawyer! :) )
Overuled.
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what's Bytor and the Snow Dog about?
Not funny, leading question, and irrelevant!
Objection!!
(I always wanted to be a TV lawyer! :) )
Overuled.
LOL.
Well, lyrically the song is totally different from where the idea came from ... but that's for another thread.
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Now, what's Bytor and the Snow Dog about?
I was always thought it was about this nice girl Tor who swings both ways and her exciting adventures with her trusty pet huskey...
Never bothered reading the lyric sheet though... :lol:
(My interpretation was thrown into some doubt when I watched a DVD a while back of them performing sometime around Exit, and there were projection images that didn't seem to fit my story - the musicianship was STUNNING though, I must get that DVD :D)
I think we should do something easier like "Name of the game" or "Take a chance on me"
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Ok see if you can make sense of these Mad Capsule Markets lyrics :p
Pulse
" YOU COMIN' THROUGH GET IN THE CROWD
YOU COME IN CREW IT TURNS ME ON
YOU COMIN' THROUGH GET IN THE CROWD, WE STARTYOU CAN DO ANYTHING WHATEVER YOU WANT
SO,NO NEED TO HESITATE,FUTURE'S RIGHT THERE
MAKE OUR OWN RULES
KICK IT NOW
CORRECT OR WACK,CHECK YOURSELF
STAKE YOURSELF BEFORE YOU UPSET
THAT7S THE WAY WE DO ALL THE TIME
CORRECT OR WACK,CHECK YOURSELF
OPEN YOUR MIND,OPEN MIND"
or
XXX Can of This
" I just want it.
Can I have this?
Happiness in this can of This.
I just want it.
Can I have this?
Feeling fine on a can of This.
If you don't want it,
can i have this?
Can I have this,can of This?"
:lol:
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I'm a big fan of quite a lot of Japanese bands (admittedly MCM aren't one of them) and NONE of them ever make any sense. Bar maybe Gallhammer, but their songs basically go:
DEEEPRESSSIIIIOOOOOOOONNNNNN GGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
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haha I love Mad Capsule Markets, all their songs are just fun but at the same pretty heavy (Bit Crusherrr for example)
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I remember going to see Rush in a huge barn (staffordshire county showground)
http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/tours/81oct29_collage.htm
Not sure if it was the 29th may have been the 30th ack thats 28 years ago!
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Ok since everyone on here is so keen and obviously ready for this ........
http://aynrandeducation.com/misc/analyzing_2112_by_rush_and_anthem.pdf
And just for completion it would seem both me and Denim are right if wiki is to be believed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2112_(song)
an excert
Part seven, "The Grand Finale", is a grand instrumental concluding with the spoken words "Attention, all planets of the Solar Federation: We have assumed control". Some fans interpret the Grand Finale as the victorious return of the Elder Race, while others interpret it as the establishment of absolute power by the Priests who have finally destroyed the last dissident to their order.
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My personal interpretation of Bytor and the Snow Dog is that it is about the male British musicians' angst driven need for Midol.
:lol: :lol: :lol: