Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: Nadz1lla on August 11, 2009, 01:10:13 PM
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I've been pondering something lately, probably more than I should as now I've got myself into something of a worry.
Do you guys think there's an age by which if you haven't "made it", you're never going to. I'm talking of course in terms of the music industry.
I had an acquaintance tell me long ago that if you haven't made any major headway or got a record deal by the time you are 30, the industry will not want you as you'll be "past it", I guess they mean you won't have as many years left in you to create, record and tour music as when you're in your early 20's, late teens.
The thing is, I'm 28 and because of what this person told me, I am getting a massive sense of impending doom. DOOM I tell thee!
I've been in loads of bands that have basically at one stage or another, messed me around, wasted time and put me at square one again more times than I can count. I may have left it too late, but I've got to the point where I think $%&# it! I'll do it all myself. Only trouble is, I think it has taken up until literally the last couple of weeks for me to really mature as a lyricist and music writer, and I'm thinking it's too little too late.
I have seen older people get signed, but usually it's because they've had a previous band or (god forbid) as novelty spark that is right for that moment, a-la The Darkness, and then it dies as quickly as it was born.
I'm in a bit of a bind.... what do you guys think? In an ideal world, I'd like to think that no matter how old you are, if you have what it takes, someone will pick you up and help you to go further. But then, reality isn't an ideal world. :?
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Well, I think there is indeed a thing with age. It might be more related of having the "bonus of the young", not having to worry if you lose a year or two to an attempt to go pro, plus not having the burden of an expensive life style or family to provide for.
Let's face it, when you're on the road to becoming famous, you're not gonna get great pay or hotels, so you'll end up sleeping in a car, playing shite holes and living the rock star life. I just think it isn't compatible with being beyond 35. Plus if 90% of your audience are younger than you, there might be less of an attraction towards you in terms of coolness and sex symbol status.
But hey, anything goes, if you're up to it and have the passion to an extend that failures just motivate you more, you can make it at any age. Giving up is just not an option!
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Umm...
Do you want reassurance or... something more, um, realistic? :(
I'm 46, my last (and best) "serious" band was when I was in my mid-30s. Looking back, we were "too old" then.
We didn't really understand what people 20-odd years younger us were into, most of us were too "secure" in the rest of our lives (the other three band members had mortgages, massive salaries), we didn't market ourselves to the right people, or, well, anybody really...
I'd already had the same sort of crises as you when I was 26/7 - and I accepted I wasn't getting anywhere, so I gave up playing to get married. It was only the collapse of that marriage that got me going with another band. I really thought we might get somewhere...
That last band nearly killed me, I ended up in casualty with "suicidal" written on the triage form, anti-depressants, and a rather tentative 4-5 years. I gave up music altogether for 3-4 years because of it, I just couldn't stand it, and removing music from my life is what saved me.
Music's music, and the music business is a business. You've got to be realistic:
Have you actually got something to sell? (I assume yes :D)
Is it something that enough people would actually want to spend their pocket money on? ( :?)
For you to make it, the people that might "pick you up and help you to go further", have to actually see and hear you, and then they have to be convinced that the answer to the second question is not "maybe", not "yes" even, but "HELL YESS!!". If they come on board, they are interested in you as well, but the reason they're doing it is to make money, not to dick-about losing money...
If you think that might still happen - keep going, I don't think there's anything to stop anyone any age from creating something that we all want... But you must put a lot more effort into finding out what the people who are spending actually want, and then into marketing yourself to the people who can help you into the arena.
But also consider this, this is age related as well, what are you trying to be at the moment? What is your self-image when you imagine yourself performing/etc? You're never again going to be that 18-22 year-old rocker at the peak of his virility/etc... At the moment I'm guessing you can still carry that off on stage, but another 5-10 years, possibly sooner, you won't be able to - you'll be approaching the age of "Dad" for your possible audience, and there's nothing you'll be able to do about it. You might need, already, to re-align the "you" you're trying to sell.
It's a real bummer... but that's what happens to us.
If I'd been on this forum in 1989 I could have posted your post, absolutely word for word. I really feel for you - and anyone else going through it. You've got the doubts already, you probably know the answer in your heart anyway.
My recommendation is "let it go", and concentrate on making and enjoying music... anything that happens after that is a bonus.
Sooner or later hanging on to an unfulfilled dream will do your head in.
Peace.
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I've given up at age 20 haha. Theres just no opportunity for me to get in, dont have a band/know anyone who wants to be in one. Dont have any contacts for getting into session work nor do I have the skills on the guitar or even knowledge of where to start!
As Andy says I'd just let it go and concentrate on enjoying music rather than trying to "make it big".
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It's all a bit sad really - there's so much bluddy talent out there. And the world is full of dreams and people telling us we can get them...
But I have to tell you, and I had HUGE dreams, that I was so much happier when I finally accepted that I'd "failed" to do what I set out achieve...
I'm now a far better musician/song-writer than I ever was... :lol:
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realistically you have at least another five years in you mate! keep going :) though maybe in the short term take a break.
i'm not in the least bit famous, but i have been lucky to have played all over the world. the internet makes it possible. its a bit more than fun for me - i'm entirely addicted - if i couldn't swing my flying v in anger, i'm not sure what i'd do about it! i thank my lucky stars the gigs keep coming. maybe one day i'll get married to a lovely missus, have kids, and hang up my v without a single regret.
at this time, i no longer care about making it big, but i have to play.
edit: and at this time babies are extremely far far away from the agenda
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realistically you have at least another five years in you mate! keep going :) though maybe in the short term take a break.
i'm not in the least bit famous, but i have been lucky to have played all over the world. the internet makes it possible. its a bit more than fun for me - i'm entirely addicted - if i couldn't swing my flying v in anger, i'm not sure what i'd do about it! i thank my lucky stars the gigs keep coming. maybe one day i'll get married to a lovely missus, have kids, and hang up my v without a single regret.
at this time, i no longer care about making it big, but i have to play.
Do you have any vids on youtube? I'd really like to see you perform!
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realistically you have at least another five years in you mate! keep going :) though maybe in the short term take a break.
i'm not in the least bit famous, but i have been lucky to have played all over the world. the internet makes it possible. its a bit more than fun for me - i'm entirely addicted - if i couldn't swing my flying v in anger, i'm not sure what i'd do about it! i thank my lucky stars the gigs keep coming. maybe one day i'll get married to a lovely missus, have kids, and hang up my v without a single regret.
at this time, i no longer care about making it big, but i have to play.
Do you have any vids on youtube? I'd really like to see you perform!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbYsLR2P5Ec for example :)
edit: i just watched it myself - we practice long, but always comes out really unprofessional live :( :)
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realistically you have at least another five years in you mate! keep going :) though maybe in the short term take a break.
i'm not in the least bit famous, but i have been lucky to have played all over the world. the internet makes it possible. its a bit more than fun for me - i'm entirely addicted - if i couldn't swing my flying v in anger, i'm not sure what i'd do about it! i thank my lucky stars the gigs keep coming. maybe one day i'll get married to a lovely missus, have kids, and hang up my v without a single regret.
at this time, i no longer care about making it big, but i have to play.
Do you have any vids on youtube? I'd really like to see you perform!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbYsLR2P5Ec for example :)
edit: i just watched it myself - we practice long, but always comes out really unprofessional live :( :)
Hahaha, that was FUN!!
You guys deliver a stunning performance and the music is rocking hard indeed, love it!!
Who needs Enter Shikari? You're the White Stripes of that style, YOU SHOULD be famous.
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The mic stand in this one is epic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM4O-typHLE
That buzz bomb tone too :lol:
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Hahaha, that was FUN!!
You guys deliver a stunning performance and the music is rocking hard indeed, love it!!
Who needs Enter Shikari? You're the White Stripes of that style, YOU SHOULD be famous.
thanks, i appreciate the compliment :D
but there are many people on this board, including yourself, who should be famous
hard to say if anyone deserves fame.. i only hope for myself that i can keep playing for as long as possible
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The mic stand in this one is epic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM4O-typHLE
That buzz bomb tone too :lol:
that was a funny gig with my old red steinberger copy :) was sounding so good with that miracle man in it! the buzz bomb tone is because my sansamp gt2 was becoming really dodgy towards the end from all the traveling. i liked the affect of its broken-ness on the tone though.
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Cheers all!
Yeah I was looking for realistic input, but I was hoping to also hear "it's not too late" hehe.
The thing is, as I say, I've really matured as a writer in the last few weeks, it's weird, I've had a kind of "growth spurt".
I am willing to put in the graft, REALLY tour my bollocks off and make it happen, I've never shied away from a good amount of hard work in my life and I don't intend to cease that mindset. I have a really good work ethic. UNFORTUNATELY, some people don't share that mindset, save for the guy who plays Bass for me. I couldn't wish for a more dedicated and professionally-minded co-worker. In one sense I don't want to be hated by anybody, but in the other, I think the time has come to shed some people from my projects and search for people who are as thirsty, dedicated, passionate and most importantly HARD WORKING as I am, otherwise there is going to be an amount of dead weight I am going to have to drag along, constantly trying to motivate them, and that's an amount of energy that could be best used on other stuff. I shouldn't HAVE to work at that part of it.
I just think, at the moment, there's a massive amount of pressure I've put on myself to metamorphose the band into a really well oiled, determined machine. Andf obviously, because of my age, it really can't happen fast enough.
I need this so bad, it's like the blood that pumps through my veins and if it slows or stops I'm going to die, I really do feel THAT need to do this. And seeing as I'm unemployed, what better time? :?
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I played my first gig at 16 and had similar feeling, I just had to 'make it' or life wouldn't be worth living. After an enormous effort and huge sacrifice, I found I was 28 and absolutely no closer to 'making it' than I was 12 years previous.
I left the band and haven't been involved with bands or music making in the last 10 years. Looking back, I was too hasty, if I had my time again I would have stuck at it for another 3-4 years. Letting go of your dream has had a greater effect on my metal state than I assumed at the time. You need to find a new goal and that's not easy.
Best of luck :)
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Start lying about how old you are. Do you think all those stars out there tell people their real age? ;)
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Interesting question
Depends what you want success as
Seasick Steve has been a big hit and he is hardly teenybop material
The record companies have made me sick over the last 25 years
If you are old enough to know what you are doing then you are too old/past it
Well guess what - those record companies are on their knees and going broke these days
It is all about to change - it's all in flux
It's not just record labels either
Live Nation are nearly a BILLION dollars in debt apparently - that cant go on much longer , although there is talk of them combining with ticketmaster
But they are overpricing gigs and NOBODY is turning up
The whole rulebook over age , colour , creed, good looks etc is about to become defunct.
I see a lot of pubs and bars opening up to live music when DJs were previously the flavour of the month, so there will be a grassroots change.
In Croydon it is happening because the Drum and Bass nights and dance music clubs were bringing a lot of drugs trouble and gang violence with it (turf wars over selling drugs), and the police and council have had enough and are revoking licenses.....good riddance too!
Maybe it is a return to pub rock , and that's great news in my opinion
Get people away from POP IDOL and make them realise they'd do better honing their skill and playing live
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^ that's interesting stuff Jonathan.
While I was typing mine earlier, I was thinking that "making it" as I knew it is kinda defunct nowadays anyway... I'm getting the feeling that things are changing as well.
I don't really fancy playing live again... but that's based on x years ago when it was dying... you put all that effort in, struggled to get a gig, then when you did, the same three people turned up everytime (expecting to get in for free!), plus the obligatory alcoholic propping up the bar who wanted to tell you about god knows what...
If pub rock got going again, that would be grand :D
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What do you think constitutes making it? If you want to be an NME cover band or a pop star, chances are yeah, you do really need to be making waves when you're young.
In more niche genres/scenes, it's vastly less important.
I deal with lots of musicians who I consider to have "made it" bt they're all still working full time jobs and plenty of them had zero success till their late 20's and 30's.
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I feel for you Nadz but I would be optimistic and say don't give up on the dream.I think Jonathan has made some great points that I was thinking of as I was working through the posts ( and Gwen, I was impressed with your stuff).
Like the others here I really thought I'd make it and I saw the meter running too but though I had a few close calls, I didn't "make it" but life takes over and your perspectives change and as the years go by it becomes less important. I'd say play your a*se off and love it. I still do and I am just in a pub covers band with plenty of work.
I think that the traditional record company run music business will change and there are lots of opportunities for people to get their music out there. I don't necessarily think that it will make people wealthy but to me it has only ever been about writing good songs and the satisfaction of having people listen and want to hear them, sadly a target I have not yet achieved.
Besides, making it big means these days being under constant scrutiny perhaps more than ever before and I can't think that real or perceived financial gains can compensate for that.
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to me it has only ever been about writing good songs and the satisfaction of having people listen and want to hear them, sadly a target I have not yet achieved.
Same here.. well of course like most young guitarists I wanted to be a big star and have all the money. But now I dont really care, I realised I would probably hate all the attention anyway but of course the money would be nice :)
Right now I just want to get playing live and have a "following" of people who just want to turn up to a pub/venue and hear my music. Its too hard to find a band into the same stuff as me though, the only person I know who I might get on well enough with musically is indy from this forum. And we live nowhere near each other so jamming isnt going to happen easily :?
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By "making it" I mean doing what I love either as a career on its own or at least making enough money from it to cover my bills whilst juggling it with a regular job. It's just, the only way I can see actually getting this thing off the ground properly and getting the attention I want, getting on the festivals and bigger venue circuits, is by getting the backing of a really good agent / manager, maybe even a record company. Although, I guess I would probably want something more like a distribution deal, not a record deal, as that way I get to keep the rights to my music.
It might also sound a bit cheesy, but bugger it, I'm going to put it out there... I read an interview with Dez Fafara in this month's metal hammer, and I just thought to myself "what a nice guy" and couldn't help but think he is exactly the kind of role model the kids need these days. He's very much like me in the way he thinks, his outlook on life and his work ethic. If I ever got the chance to be the kind of person who gets into magazines, does interviews etc like him, then I would want to be that role model, to let everyone know (indeed even up-and-coming musicians) that it's ok not to do the sex and drugs, all you need is the rock and roll. I see too many kids getting into the wrong things, or making big mistakes too young, and I've been my own worst nightmare in the past for that kind of thing. If I could become Mr. Big Rock Star, I'd use my powers for GOOD! :lol:
I just want to make a difference in the world, and I'm not going to do that sitting in a damn call centre for the rest of my life, or fitting bathrooms as a plumber. The only thing I'm really good at in life is music, I honestly suck at everything else!
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The rules and infrastructure are different today than 20 years ago.
Today it's possibly to make a professional recording for hardly any money, and get it to a wide audience. And as Jonathan said, live music in pubs and small venues is very prevalent.
I seem to remember having the same internal debate - is it too late to make a career out of playing the guitar? But I guess it's about priorities for me. To be completely honest, I wouldn't WANT to make a living playing the guitar these days. I enjoy it far too much as an amateur.
Mark.
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I've only really been in one band doing original material which tried to "make it" ie go down the record contract etc route (and this was long enough ago you could do that!).
In my opinion the songs were really good (I didn't write any of them by the way), however we were probably too old for the fashionable end of the market (although the music certainly wasn't chasing that market), and the to be honest the band probably weren't good enough.
For most styles of music I now don't think age is an issue. It was more of an issue when the market was controlled by the record industry, and they wanted a certain stereotype because they thought that their major market was teenagers.
Hopefully the market will now swing towards acts that are good musically and do a good show rather than are "fashionable". This problem as been more acute in the UK, where much more popular culture is determined by "fashion" rather than quality......
Back in the day a band would be sent out on tour (at a loss — it's really hard to make money touring unless you are playing big stadia) as a way of promoting record sales (which did generate income), with the hope that you could break into the large venue/ stadium category.
Bands (if they were lucky) were also given time to develop. One of my favourite bands, Thin Lizzy, didn't really make it until their 6th album. This just wouldn't have happened even 15 years ago, they would probably have been dropped after their first album.
The real problem now is that no-one has any idea how get a new band into a situation where they generate any significant income as the only acts making real money at the moment are the big acts play big venues: AC/DC, Springsteen, U2, Maddonna (!?).
I expect someone will come up with a way for bands to make money, however none of the many people I know working in the music business have any idea........
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All very good points, and all making me feel a bit better about the situation, heh. It just got on my tits a bit the fact that until recently I haven't shown my true potential, but suddenly I have started writing really well thought out lyrics, which are verging on poetic, whereas before I would tell the story in really plain terms and I hate that, I prefer to have pictures painted when I listen to a song. On top of that, I've been trying to break away from the A, B, C, A, B, C way of writing and structuring songs and it's a REALLY hard habit to break, I'm finding it really difficult, but at the same time it is pushing myself to evolve as a musician. My playing isn't great, but I still try to make things as fresh sounding to me as possible.
Ideally I want to try to write things with the beauty and equal ferocity and complexity of Opeth / Ihsahn and bands like that, but I find they can be fairly boring sometimes. Yes, ok, they might not be traditional in their song structures, but I have noticed they will go into one riff, quite clearly enjoying it (and rightly so) and play it 8 times, then move on to the next section, same again, play it 8 times, move on again. It just gets boring after a bit... the only exception is Deliverance as I'm completely addicted to the hooks in that song and I play it over and over :lol: But I digress...
I think maybe I'm also putting too much pressure on myself to over-complicate things when my musicianship clearly can't keep up with the ideas in my head, and that really frustrates me.
Sorry for the rant, heh :D. I actually feel like my head might split open and I seem to be causing myself such a lot of stress where, if I look at the situation objectively, maybe I need to down tools for a bit and go out and enjoy the world...but for some reason I feel like every moment is precious and I should be at my music computer just playing my fingers to the bone until something accidentally slips out, or I have an epiphany.
Early midlife crisis perhaps? :?
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Nope, it's too late, you're going to turn into your dad any day now :lol:
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If you are old enough to know what you are doing then you are too old/past it
That really resonates with me.
I've never 'done' music because I want to acieve something but because I just can't not do it, I know that sounds over melodramatic but it's not a take it or leave it thing, music defines my life on so many different levels it's really quite sad :lol:
I knew from 16 that I never had the inclination or motivation needed to make it 'big' but that's not the same as not wanting to make a living from it though. + everyone's priorities are different, at 21 I had a mortgage and fiance, I'm 28 now and I'm just coming up to my last year in UNI.
I totally know where you're coming from and it's horrible way to feel but if you stop and ask your self honestly in the grand scheme of things would it really be that bad of you didn't 'make' it?
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Early midlife crisis perhaps? :?
Nah, having the energy to do all that stuff you just described is nothing to do with a midlife crisis.
When you really are middle-aged you'll find you can't be arsed to do anything. :|
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If you give up becuase you think you are too old you were never doing it for the right reasons in the first place.
Do you want to be the best musician and writer you can be or a famous rock star? Give up on the latter and the former might just come true :D
shite, I'm starting to sound like Yoda now....
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Nah you need to get some of your words back to front. :lol:
Nah I've always done it because I love it and I've been a late bloomer in everything I've ever done. I just want to squeeze all the potential out of whatever it is I have, and because of my late bloom I have been getting worried that it might be too late.
Hell, why not, I'd love to be a massive rock star too, who wouldn't? Okay some people might not, but it's the kind of challenge I would thrive on! :D
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8)It's never too late (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lp0IWv8QZY) 8)
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8)It's never too late (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lp0IWv8QZY) 8)
That's low... we're supposed to be trying to stay positive... :lol: :lol:
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Hmmm *ponders whether I can crack the sweet old lady look and get through on "awwww" factor..." :lol: