Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Mr.Coneman on October 12, 2009, 10:56:03 PM
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So it's just an idea at the minute, and I certaintly don't have the spare cash even if I do decide to go ahead with the idea just yet, but...
I'm thinking of adding a vibrato unit to my Les Paul, originally I was thinking Bigsby, because that is of course what most people would think of for a Les Paul, but I know they're kind of limited in what they can do, you get your basic vibrato bar function, but none of the Satriani and Van Halen style craziness, which is what is inspiring me to do this!
So I guess I have two options...I can get a whole new guitar, with like a Floyd Rose or whatever for that, and leave my Paul intact, but what else would be applicable to my Les Paul, which would be able to handle the Van Halen style whammy stuff?....
And is there any of them that don't require routing the guitars body? I definitely don't want to start cutting chunks out of my guitar.
Good idea? Or go for a new guitar?
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New guitar.
If you could find a guitar tech that could do a clean Floyd install on an LP, you would have an amazing instrument. The expense to do this properly to an LP would be more than what you could buy a decent Floyd or Licensed bridge equipped guitar for, new or used.
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Is this an Epiphone Les Paul? Or a Gibson? Like a really expensive guitar. I would avoid the Bigsby then.
I would get a reliable 90s Ibanez.
But imo, Bigsbys on Les Pauls are AWESOME, even if it isn't good for crazy whammy.
(http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll244/bildozr/lespaulbigsby.jpg)
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There's the Stetsbar:
http://stetsbar.com/ (http://stetsbar.com/)
I don't know if it has quite the range of a Floyd or similar, but certainly more than a Bigsby.
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Is this your 3 pup epi?
Personally I would consider a Kahler on there, but it does require some top routing for the springs and a behind the nut stringlock
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Yes, Will, it's for the 3 pup Epi. Two things inspired this idea really, my next purchase idea musically, was always going to be a whammy bar capable guitar, because ...well I'm a lead guitar player, and theres a few songs my band have written that I think some 80's style soloing with whammy action would fit quite well!
And then this http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/6/9/2/395692.jpg
It just looks amazing on that guitar like that. Howeverrr, I've posted this up on a few boards, and the general consensus is to go with my original idea and just get a new guitar when I get around to it.
The only thing is...I'm not a huge fan of Ibanez or Jackson thinner necks, I love the feel of Les Pauls, but they just arent designed for the Floyds and everything, so I was hoping for a best of both worlds.
This will take alot of time to think!
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if only the les paul access was cheaper lol
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I, too, enjoy a Les Paul with a wiggle stick. To me a Bigsby is useless for anything more than subtle vibrato. And it sounds like you want a tremolo you can actually use.
The biggest issue with a floyd on a Les Paul (even if you CAN find a tech willing to do it and who is able to do it right) is that its just not a good guitar design for it. The top carve and neck angle make the floyd hang out into space. It can work but it's risky...you may end up putting a huge hole in your baby and have it sound terrible.
The LP Axcess has a different neck angle and allows for a better positioned and functioning tremolo.
I would go with a Kahler Hybrid...much less wood has to be removed (only a little chunk under the unit has to go away) and it works much better on LP-style guitars.
I have an older Les Paul STD with a Kahler on it and it works just fine
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Stretsbar looks good
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+1 on the stetsbar
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i have a stetsbar on an epiphone Les Paul, and i've tried the Duesenberg Les Trem as well. the Les Trem has a more Bigsby like range, so it's not what you're after, but the stetsbar is very good. it does both up and down bends. it doesn't have quite the range of a Floyd Rose, and the guitar has to be carefully set up to avoid tuning issues, but it'll get you 70% of the way to a Floyd without having to make any alterations to your guitar. and if you don't like it, you can sell it for probably pretty much what you pay for it. oh, it's also more stable than a floyd as regards palm muting and things like double stop bends, and the new ones can be locked to upbend only in case you break a string.
Epiphone also did a Les Paul Gothic with a Floyd Rose, which might be good for you if you can find one on ebay. probably not cost much more than the stetsbar! :)
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A Floyd Rose on a Les Paul is just wrong.
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it may be wrong Ratrod, but i lust after one of those axcess Les Pauls! :)
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A Floyd Rose on a Les Paul is just wrong.
I thought the ones Alex Lifeson played on Rush's last tour looked pretty good (of course, the rather wonderful sound he was getting out of them had a lot to do with it... :))
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FWIW, the Kahler suggestion is probably a very good one. The LP design allows you to get a good angle behind the rollers (which you need to do otherwise the tone seems to really suffer).
You might even be lucky to find a secondhand guitar with one - a fair number of LPs had Kahlers fitted in the early/mid '80s...
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Didn't think about the Kahler, I'd go for that.
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+1 for the Kahler.
The floyd rose tremolo may not be easy to drop because of the string spacing and wood removal/varnish fix. It's a work for a new guitar. I don't like Gibson neck in general for the style of shred where this kind of tremelo may be required but you can find some LesPaul-like guitar with a Floyd Rose: some great ESP Eclipse for example (very nice neck).
I got a not-so-good-but-do-the-rehearsal-job Agile AL-2000 Floyd Rose (with C-Nailbomb bridge pup): it doesn't look bad with its 24 frets (IMO). Actually the first Floyd-rose'd guitars were Gibson LPs :D
(http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy95/hondana/guitars/al2000-cnb.jpg)
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another Kahler vote - I'm sure theres a model that doesn't require any routing and is meant for stop-bar guitars such as Gibsons. I'm (still) wanting to do this to my Explorer, but I'd imagine it'd work just as well on a Les Paul.
heres one on ebay with the trem I'm talking about, looks nice actually (not weird like a Floyd)...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1986-Gibson-Les-Paul-CUSTOM-USA-with-Kahler-Tremolo_W0QQitemZ220493328243QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item33566d2f73&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_11288wt_1165
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another Kahler vote - I'm sure theres a model that doesn't require any routing and is meant for stop-bar guitars such as Gibsons. I'm (still) wanting to do this to my Explorer, but I'd imagine it'd work just as well on a Les Paul.
heres one on ebay with the trem I'm talking about, looks nice actually (not weird like a Floyd)...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1986-Gibson-Les-Paul-CUSTOM-USA-with-Kahler-Tremolo_W0QQitemZ220493328243QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item33566d2f73&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_11288wt_1165
It looks great, but it does require body routing - there's a cavity about two inches square and an inch deep under the bridge, to accommodate the springs and cam.
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Personally I'm not a Kahler fan - find them too light and often rob a lot of tone and sustain from a guitar IMO
Biggest problem with a Floyd onan LP is the huge wiring run channel that runs deep in the body from toggle switch to control cavity - it's right where you want to put the springs
Obviously Gibson have gotten round this with the Access and Schon models
We have done it before built from scratch - we simply designed a different wire run to avoid getting the springs and cables needing the same chamber
here is a piccy
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/felineguitars/CUSTOM%20BUILT/cj1.jpg)
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thats nice
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Personally I'm not a Kahler fan - find them too light and often rob a lot of tone and sustain from a guitar IMO
Isn't light good? And does it take a lot of tone cause it's a big block?
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it took me some time to adjust to the kahler because they are a much lighter feel compared to fighting the springs on a floyd... but to be honest i think thats the best feature now - it certainly allows a lot of control
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With the hardware that comes with a Kahler it will have a much lighter tremolo response than a Floyd. But if you want it to respond more like an original FR bridge you can order some harder tension springs from Kahler to use with it. As far as the tone lost....we can debate different bridges and tone all day long. ANY tremolo that replaces a hardtail system will affect the tone and sustain. Just as any amount of wood removed will have an impact as well.
The Kahler Hybrids DO beat out the Floyd Rose in two categories:
1) You can palm mute and play more normally without pitch issues, and double stop bends only cause a small amount of pitch movement on the bridge--more like the way a strat tremolo would respond.
2)You can lock down the Kahler with a little set screw in the back of the bridge so it can function as a hardtail.
The wood removed is very small compared to the big hole you need for a floyd.
I still say that for a regular-style Les Paul (i.e. anything other than a Schon or Axcess) your best bet is the Kahler over the Floyd.
If the sustain becomes an issue, then just drop a Sustainiac in the neck and you can have killer singing leads all day long :)
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If you really want a Floyd-equipped Gibson-made Lester, Gibson made something like "Custom Lite" in the 1980s that will fit the bill. Sort of a Les Paul melded with a shredder guitar.
They didn't make many, but I think you can get one for reasonable money as they didn't satisfy the shredders or the Gibson traditionalists.
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A Floyd Rose on a Les Paul is just wrong.
Just my words. Why go ruin the beauty of a les paul with a floyd rose?
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A Floyd Rose on a Les Paul is just wrong.
Just my words. Why go ruin the beauty of a les paul with a floyd rose?
because you can - and therefore should !!! ;)
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I agree.
For those who dont like the idea of a Les Paul with a floating tremolo...dont buy one!
Gibson makes their VOS series for a good reason. Don't get me wrong...I OWN a VOS '57 and love it. But different isn't bad.
If they had replaced '59 reissues with Axcess LP's then I could understand it....
Hell, the Les Paul was intended to be a jazz guitar. Is it blasphemous to play rock and roll on it?
To each their own.
If you hate Floyds...Fine.
If you love Floyds...Fine.