Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: BigB on November 25, 2009, 11:38:14 PM
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So, the axe is a japanese Fender Custom '62 RI - alder body, (thin) maple / rosewood neck. Nice acoustic sound - resonant, open, well balanced, nice singing tone, good fast attacks and more than decent sustain. A die-hard tele-fanatic friend found it to be way above average, and I think he knows what he's talking about.
But - as I expected - the pups are, well, not really bad, but nothing you'd remember of, and - to my taste - way too wimpy. Ok, I like that telecaster twang and bite and roar and sing, but being first a humbucker guy with a taste for hotter pups - I mean, on the "hot vintage and then some" side :mrgreen: -, I'm looking for something way more beefy and meaty - like, more low ends, way more grunt and way less shrill, but with still that rock'n'roll cutting bridge tone. Kind of a tele on steroids...
As far as I can tell from descriptions and samples, I think I want a Piledriver bridge. Now I don't know if I should take the whole set, or go for something else on the neck - perhaps a yardbird or a brownsugar ? FWIW I heard some good things about the PD bridge / yardbird neck combo, but while I like the Crawler's alnico IV neck - alnico V bridge contrast on my Vox Custom 24, I'm not sure I'm after the same combo here.
If that may help, I'm playing anything from blues to classic rock to old hard rock to early punk-rock to fusion to grunge to modern hardcore punk, my current band being mostly about the four last items.
So ladies and gentlemans, any hint and advise welcome - Mr Tim will have the final word, as usual :wink:
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I think you're looking in the right directions :D
My Fender Japan Custom has Yardbirds in. They are extremely tasty and "more" than the stock pickups were, but they are not that much more powerful.
I think a Yardbird set actually would suit you, but you'd need to get used to it and get the amp to work a bit more maybe? I find this set to be really flexible, it handles any style of music and amp settings I put it through. Add a four-way switch to give you the "both in series" option, and you get a psuedo humbucker tone.
However, for what you describe, I personally would be tempted to go Yardbird neck and then Blackguard Flat 50 bridge.
This is because:
a) The BG bridge gives more "hair" than the Yardbird - with the tone rolled off to "fatten" it a bit, I find it competes quite well with a humbucker guitar going through the same amp settings.
b) I find the YB neck to be sweeter and clearer than the BG neck, and is the main reason I find the Yardbirds so flexible. I can actually do crunchy or even distorted rhythm work with the YB neck. I can only use the BG neck pickup for that if I'm after the traditional "lumpy rhythm played on a tele neck" sort of sound (I hope that makes sense! It's not a bad tone, but I rarely use it, I like a bit more cut and definition from a crunchy rhythm part :lol:)
I have been wondering about the Piledrivers myself. I was originally worried they'd be a bit too much, and would lack some of the tele character that I want. However, other people's reports suggest that the bridge is that "tele on steroids" you're after... and that if you roll off the volume then you're into classic tele bridge territory.
So a PD bridge with YB neck does actually sound like an interesting combination to me. You might even be fattening up the neck slightly because you'll be able to get it slightly closer to the strings when balancing output with the PD bridge.
Can't comment much on the alnico IV-V bit, as far as I'm aware all my sets are the same magnet between bridge & neck.
Hope that helps :D
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Complete it yourself:
P_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ R
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predictably, i'm going to push the boss here :) way less compressed than the piledriver, but as meaty as you like. it works nicely for punk and hardrock, use it for that myself, with a bit of metal.
lets us know what tim reckons!
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I still don't have any BKP Tele sets so I should probably shut the hell up...
We often hear about the BG50 set for vintage-with-balls, the Piledrivers for maximum grunt, and gwEm always mentions the Boss as a good set for rock.....
But what about the Brown Sugars? I know there's the instant Keith Richards association, but I imagine they'd be hotter than the BGs (or maybe not?) but with a bit more spank than the Boss. Good for blues and slightlier edgier rock sounds, perhaps?
All this is pure speculation. Maybe I should just put together 6 or 7 Teles and get every pickup set then I'll know what I'm talking about. :?
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predictably, i'm going to push the boss here :)
Thanks gwEm - yet another option to consider as just what I needed :mrgreen:
way less compressed than the piledriver, but as meaty as you like. it works nicely for punk and hardrock, use it for that myself, with a bit of metal.
lets us know what tim reckons!
Well... My die-hard-tele-fan buddy and coworker just asked me if could install a set of "the boss" on it's own tele, so I should probably wait a few more days so I can test the boss by myself - specially since I'll be able to hear the "before" and "after"... Yeps, probably the best thing to do.
Thanks to anyone for your kind advices BTW - I'll keep you informed.
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But what about the Brown Sugars?
I like the Brown Sugars alot. Apparently The Boss is a Brown Sugar with a hotter wind. I have a Brown Sugar and Boss here and am able to confirm the tones are in the same vein, but the Brown Sugar is noticeably more open, and a little more vintage.
If I was going the authentic-tele route, I'd go for a Blackguard 50 or Brown Sugar for sure.
The Boss is great for rock, it does a very good George Lynch impression, but you can get nasty and punk too. Very punchy. As I said once before, it sort of like the Holy Diver of tele pickups. I tried to get on with the Piledriver, but it wasn't for me.
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I like the Brown Sugars alot. Apparently The Boss is a Brown Sugar with a hotter wind. I have a Brown Sugar and Boss here and am able to confirm the tones are in the same vein, but the Brown Sugar is noticeably more open, and a little more vintage.
If I was going the authentic-tele route, I'd go for a Blackguard 50 or Brown Sugar for sure.
Thanks gwEm, useful info. :) I was looking at the specs earlier and wondered if the Brown Sugar and Boss have the same neck model.
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The Boss is ... sort of like the Holy Diver of tele pickups.
Oh great. You just had to make me want something else didn't you :roll: :)
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The Boss is ... sort of like the Holy Diver of tele pickups.
Oh great. You just had to make me want something else didn't you :roll: :)
I can't remember - have you got any Teles in that armoury of yours?
(Apologies for repeated thread hijacks! :oops: )
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Apparently The Boss is a Brown Sugar with a hotter wind. I have a Brown Sugar and Boss here and am able to confirm the tones are in the same vein, but the Brown Sugar is noticeably more open, and a little more vintage.
If I was going the authentic-tele route, I'd go for a Blackguard 50 or Brown Sugar for sure.
The Boss is great for rock, it does a very good George Lynch impression, but you can get nasty and punk too. Very punchy. As I said once before, it sort of like the Holy Diver of tele pickups. I tried to get on with the Piledriver, but it wasn't for me.
I listened to the one and only sample of the Boss I could find, and it sure sounded fine - huge yet still open tele tone. I'm starting to reconsider what seemed an obvious choice :?
Don't you have any sample available ? I'd really like to hear what you're getting out of this pup...
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I have a Piledriver bridge paired with a Mississippi Queen neck in a weighty Mexican Tele and I love them. I have to say that in my guitar it's not very Tele-ish: I like the sound, but you wouldn't immediately think "Telecaster" when you heard it. Here's a clip I recorded with the guitar played through a Cornell Romany Plus. The rhythm is Piledriver and the solo part is with the Mississippi Queen. I added some chorus to the solo as I was mucking about with trying to recreate 80s Z Z Top type settings. Anyway, it gives you a bit of an idea of what Piledrivers can sound like:
Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtOjBj1Nz3M)
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I have a Piledriver bridge paired with a Mississippi Queen neck in a weighty Mexican Tele and I love them.
Hi Andrew.
Yeps, I've already seen this clip - and I had read the topic somewhere in this forum too. Was quite impressed by the rythm tone, and that's possibly because of this that my first idea was the piledriver. But OTHO, playing the stock pups, I'm starting to remember why I wanted a tele at first, so I'm now in doubt... But well, I'll wait for my buddy to get his boss set so I can try them out, and then I'll ask Tim !-)
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But well, I'll wait for my buddy to get his boss set so I can try them out, and then I'll ask Tim !-)
That's a good idea, if the friend is not going to do this in long term...
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BigB, please let us know how your friend finds The Boss in his Tele. I'm having the same dilemma as you at present as I need a pickup for my Jazzmaster/Tele/Strat hybrid thing I'm building and I think I've narrowed it down either another Piledriver or The Boss. Ah decisions, decisions. :)
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This gets more interesting. I dropped Tim an e-mail asking for his recommendation for my Jazzmaster/Tele/Strat project and I mentioned I wanted to go from AC/DC,ZZ Top and Zeppelin tones to surf type sounds via a bit of Danny Gatton and Tim's reply was unequivocably that I should get a Blackguard Flat 50 bridge pickup which is what I've now ordered. I'm not sure from your original post how much grunt you're looking for from your pickup but I thought I'd share Tim's wisdom. This might help or it might horribly confuse matters. :)
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The BG50 certainly seems to get recommended a lot as a great all-rounder.
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Because it is a great all rounder - 8)!
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This gets more interesting. I dropped Tim an e-mail asking for his recommendation for my Jazzmaster/Tele/Strat project and I mentioned I wanted to go from AC/DC,ZZ Top and Zeppelin tones to surf type sounds via a bit of Danny Gatton and Tim's reply was unequivocably that I should get a Blackguard Flat 50 bridge pickup which is what I've now ordered. I'm not sure from your original post how much grunt you're looking for from your pickup but I thought I'd share Tim's wisdom. This might help or it might horribly confuse matters. :)
Thanks for sharing - but I indeed want WAY more grunt (and beef), and I'm really not into surf sounds :wink:. If my buddy doesn't order it's boss set really quickly now, and of course depending on Tim's advices (I still not asked the man), I might take the chance to go for a PD set, eventually exchanging them for Boss if I do find them too compressed or to far away from the Tele "character". Waiting for the paycheck anyway :lol:
Also, I quickly tried the Tele on my singers Peavey C30 on saturday's rehearsal, and it sounded way less wimpy than on the Blues Junior :? Duh ! I can't afford a new amp by now - not before next spring in the better case - and well, I do like the Bjr too - at least with the Vox Custom 24.
Decisions, decisions... and budget :(
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BigB, please let us know how your friend finds The Boss in his Tele. I'm having the same dilemma as you at present as I need a pickup for my Jazzmaster/Tele/Strat hybrid thing I'm building and I think I've narrowed it down either another Piledriver or The Boss. Ah decisions, decisions. :)
Well, the boy doesn't seem to be in a hurry - he has still not ordered its set yet :?
Also I sent a mail to Tim last week (think it was on wednesday) and I'm still waiting for an answer - I suspect he didn't get the mail at all (aggressive anti-spam or whatever ?).
Duh... :(
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I'd give him a phone call...
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yeah i've been having troble deciding between a piledriver or boss in the bridge recently so i'm very interested to hear the outcome of this =)
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yeah i've been having troble deciding between a piledriver or boss in the bridge recently so i'm very interested to hear the outcome of this =)
So am I - but I begin to wonder whether I've been cursed or Tim blacklisted me or whatever - I posted a second mail to Tim and still have no answer ??????
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yeah i've been having troble deciding between a piledriver or boss in the bridge recently so i'm very interested to hear the outcome of this =)
So am I - but I begin to wonder whether I've been cursed or Tim blacklisted me or whatever - I posted a second mail to Tim and still have no answer...
Well, ok, I only posted the second mail yesterday :oops:
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Ok, got Tim's answer this morning, and to my surprise, he recommands... a BG flat 50 set :o
I have to admit I really didn't expect this... Ok, between my first post in this thread and the mail I sent Tim I possibly changed my minds quite a few times, and this surely shows in the mail. But BG flat 50 ??? I had ruled them out right from the start - had ruled out the whole "vintage" range FWIW.
So, I'm now browsing the archives and clips for opinions and samples on this set - if anyone that has them could comment on how they sound on heavy distortion (not metal but...), it may help. Andrew W, if you read me - did you try your BG set now ?
I know the golden rule here is "do what Tim said", and I indeed do have good reasons to trust Tim, but I'm less confident in how well I managed to express what I was looking for :oops:
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I think it's a case where you might be better of phoning and talking it through with Tim.
That's what I plan to do when I eventually get a Tele set. Despite reading many a thread on here I'm still not very clear about the differences between the sets - I'm torn between BG50, Boss, possibly Brown Sugars or even Piledrivers.
It seems to be harder than choosing humbuckers - perhaps because a Tele is always going to sound like a Tele no matter what you put in it, so pickup differences are pretty subtle.
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not so surprising - the BG50 is great for rock!
edit: you mentioned 'twang' in your description, the twang isn't so pronounced on the boss and piledriver.
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not so surprising - the BG50 is great for rock!
Have any experience on how it takes heavier distortions (I mean, not quite the metal/brootalz thing but much more than classic rock / early hard rock) ? The only samples I found were more in the blues/classic rock (or almost jazz-rock...) camp...
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not so surprising - the BG50 is great for rock!
Have any experience on how it takes heavier distortions (I mean, not quite the metal/brootalz thing but much more than classic rock / early hard rock) ? The only samples I found were more in the blues/classic rock (or almost jazz-rock...) camp...
I've tried it twice - in a tele at Phil's place, and a tele/strat hybrid at Wez's place. Classic rock/early hard rock will be excellent on it. The sound is nice and airy, yet full of character.
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Have any experience on how it takes heavier distortions (I mean, not quite the metal/brootalz thing but much more than classic rock / early hard rock) ?
I've tried it twice - in a tele at Phil's place, and a tele/strat hybrid at Wez's place. Classic rock/early hard rock will be excellent on it.
Yeps, I have no doubt on this from what I've heard - but I was actually wondering how it would do with _heavier_ distortions :mrgreen:
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Have any experience on how it takes heavier distortions (I mean, not quite the metal/brootalz thing but much more than classic rock / early hard rock) ?
I've tried it twice - in a tele at Phil's place, and a tele/strat hybrid at Wez's place. Classic rock/early hard rock will be excellent on it.
Yeps, I have no doubt on this from what I've heard - but I was actually wondering how it would do with _heavier_ distortions :mrgreen:
i'm sure it can handle it - its one of Tim's best designed pickups IMHO
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Mmmm... Now I'm even more in doubt :?
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Mmmm... Now I'm even more in doubt :?
I have many BKPs, Tim has only been wrong once.
edit: and twice I purposely ignored his advice, but he was right ;)
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I have many BKPs, Tim has only been wrong once.
edit: and twice I purposely ignored his advice, but he was right ;)
I'm more than confident in Tim's knowledge and judgement. My doubts are more about me, what I said I was looking for, and what I'm really looking for... :oops:
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I have many BKPs, Tim has only been wrong once.
edit: and twice I purposely ignored his advice, but he was right ;)
I'm more than confident in Tim's knowledge and judgement. My doubts are more about me, what I said I was looking for, and what I'm really looking for... :oops:
its a problem we all suffer from at some point ;)
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Ok, got Tim's answer this morning, and to my surprise, he recommands... a BG flat 50 set :o
So, I'm now browsing the archives and clips for opinions and samples on this set - if anyone that has them could comment on how they sound on heavy distortion (not metal but...), it may help. Andrew W, if you read me - did you try your BG set now ?
Not yet I'm afraid. I'm planning on doing some soldering this weekend so hopefully I can offer up my impressions on Sunday. Have a lot on at work though at the moment and that's going to have to take priority. I'll post when I have something.
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I'm more than confident in Tim's knowledge and judgement. My doubts are more about me, what I said I was looking for, and what I'm really looking for... :oops:
its a problem we all suffer from at some point ;)
Thanks - at least I feel a bit less pathetic now :?
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Andrew W, if you read me - did you try your BG set now ?
Not yet I'm afraid. I'm planning on doing some soldering this weekend so hopefully I can offer up my impressions on Sunday. Have a lot on at work though at the moment and that's going to have to take priority. I'll post when I have something.
Yes, please.
Oh Lord, was so much simple when I didn't know how much good pups could make a difference :lol:
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I wired up the guitar this afternoon "simple" Esquire style. The only tweak I made to the usual schematic was to use a .022uF cap on the "bass" selector setting. The Blackguard Flat 50 is much more open sounding than the Piledriver. I don't think I'd quite appreciated how compressed the Piledriver is until now. Bearing in mind that I've only played the new guitar for about 30 minutes (more to test that I'd hooked everything up right than for pleasure) I would say that for AC/DC and Led Zeppelin tones the BG Flat 50 is awesome. For early ZZ Top it's great too. For more squished, thicker sounding 80s era ZZ Top I think the Piledriver probably has the edge. The BG Flat 50 is certainly more flexible than the Piledriver and has more clarity but I don't know if that's what you want? Have I helped at all here or just muddied the waters more?
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(snip)
The BG Flat 50 is certainly more flexible than the Piledriver and has more clarity but I don't know if that's what you want? Have I helped at all here or just muddied the waters more?
Hi Andrew, and thanks for the report. And yes, it really helps 8)
Even if I'm not yet 101% confident in my choice, I think I'll go for the BG50 on this guitar. It was not what I first planned when I started looking for a Tele, but the more I play it and the more I remember why I loved telecasters at first - and FWIW, I can already get heavier, more modern sounds from my Vox Custom 24.
Looks like I'll have to get myself (or build) another tele to put Piledrivers in :mrgreen:
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Hi, been busy for a few days... (still am, but got fed up enough to get distracted onto here for a few minutes! Roll on the Christmas break!!!)
... but I do like the direction this thread has taken :D
Not surprised Tim recommended BG50s.
I reckon you'll be happy with them. I've had two sets for a good while now, and I'm still finding more things I can do with them.
I've loved all my BKPs, but the BG50s, both times, were the ones that made the biggest difference to a guitar, in the "omigod that's amazing!!! that's just what I was imagining..." kind of way.
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Not surprised Tim recommended BG50s.
I reckon you'll be happy with them. I've had two sets for a good while now, and I'm still finding more things I can do with them.
I've loved all my BKPs, but the BG50s, both times, were the ones that made the biggest difference to a guitar, in the "omigod that's amazing!!! that's just what I was imagining..." kind of way.
Well, (crossing fingers) hope that'll do the trick with me too - just ordered the BG50s 8)
At least I'll be able to tell you how they sound on a '62 RI rosewood/alder Tele (but I won't have the extra opportunity to compare with Yardbirds).
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Well, (crossing fingers) hope that'll do the trick with me too - just ordered the BG50s 8)
At least I'll be able to tell you how they sound on a '62 RI rosewood/alder Tele (but I won't have the extra opportunity to compare with Yardbirds).
For those that are interested, follow-up here :http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=19737.0 (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=19737.0)
To make a long story short: BGF50s are just GREAT :D
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Yeeha! :D