Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Players => Topic started by: Fourth Feline on February 10, 2010, 09:19:51 PM
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Hi, :)
A quick attempt at arranging a tune I liked, but this time using the Alnico IV Stormy Mondays I have just installed in a 'Donor' Ibanez AF75. Spot the deliberate mistake of me photographing it with the M.Qs in - basically the M.Qs were a bit too 'hot and blunt' in this subtle / chord melody context ; albeit great in a semi-hollow and solid bodied guitars.
Compared to the Manhattans I use in my main guitar, these AIV Stormy Mondays are detailed without mercy ! Note the 'shimmer' on the Bass strings for evidence of same. I did however , use TI Be-Bop ( roundwound ) 14s on this clip , instead of the TI 'Swing' flat wound 13s used on my Manhattan sound clips.
The idea was to have the original guitar to play quietly into an acoustic amp, and this set up to master my larger valve amps, having pickups more suited to cleanly cutting through a larger band if required. The bonus being that physically it has set up just as well, but is smaller on the knee for practice ( of which I need LOTS :lol: ).
A quick picture of the 'NGD' subject before we get to the nitty gritty - taken with the same skill as this clip was recorded ... :mrgreen:
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u135/Fourth_Feline/ee2b9a9b.jpg)
Enter at your peril ...
http://www.box.net/shared/nleg9v9341
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I couldn't open it... perhaps my WMP is out of date...
The guitar looks very cool!
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Very nice Derek - tasty playing there!
I reckon AII SMs would work really nice for that too, with their softer bass...
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Very nice Derek - tasty playing there!
I reckon AII SMs would work really nice for that too, with their softer bass...
Cheers Dave ! :)
Thanks for the 'nudge' about the magnet change ; I will have the S.Ms sent back to Tim's little pixies for the conversion back to Alnico II magnets. As the guitar and the Stormies are both keepers, compromise is not an option. I just needed a break after re-wiring the guitar through the 'F' holes. It was like wallpapering the hallway through my letterbox. I will also do a comparative clip with the softer magnets in. Next time I will play the tune a bit more reflectively, not as if I am parked on a meter.
Cheers ! :)
( And thanks for the compliment about the guitar Fernando ; between that and my 'main squeeze' - it's a real two in bed job ... :P ) .
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Forgot to say it's a great looking guitar Derek :)
Don't change the magnets purely on my suggestion - I just thought you might like an opinion!
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Forgot to say it's a great looking guitar Derek :)
Don't change the magnets purely on my suggestion - I just thought you might like an opinion!
Cheers Dave ! Also thanks for your concern. :) However, It would be nice to have the pickups sounding as 'soft' as possible , without needing to buy a second set of Manhattans. I have kept putting off the task of arranging the swap back to AII, due to their evolving use(s) but this need has come full circle - and back to their sweet origins. Upon reflection, they feel more like Stormy Mondays with AII magnets in, and the Mules covering AIV territory. Time to contact Tim ! :)
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Very nice Derek, just had a few listens and the stresses of the working day seem to be going away already. In fact as it's looping I'll keep it on while I'm working! It's a very nice piece of music, it's nice to hear a tune rather that a series of licks. I'm sure even Joe Pass would approve of that!
I'm not sure what difference a magnet change would bring, I like the articulation I hear as it is so hopefully you would not lose too much of that. AII Stormy Mondays are as sweet a pickup as you can get, I loved them when I had them and now I have my semi I'm debating which magnet to go for when I change out the Gotohs.
My thoughs are further complicated as I'm wondering whether I should get a Jazz box and not try to compromise too much with my 335, so have a real blues machine and something with no centre block to crack on with some Jazz stuff. I played a peerless Renaissance yesterday in Sounds Great. Although still a thinline it is totally acoustic and had a really nice mellow tone to it....
How do you approach your Jazz playing? I'm currently trying to learn scales and arpeggios all over the fretboard so I can pick out chord and colour tones and know what to play over what chord as it passes. Or if I'm playing solo, play a chord then hit the right melodic passages prior to the next chord. I can play a few nice Jazz progressions but really I have just learned those without understanding what I'm playing. I'm finding the jump from Blues Rock pentatonic playing to Jazz beginner pretty difficult!
Anyway, keep up the good work!
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Very nice Derek, just had a few listens and the stresses of the working day seem to be going away already. In fact as it's looping I'll keep it on while I'm working! It's a very nice piece of music, it's nice to hear a tune rather that a series of licks. I'm sure even Joe Pass would approve of that!
I'm not sure what difference a magnet change would bring, I like the articulation I hear as it is so hopefully you would not lose too much of that. AII Stormy Mondays are as sweet a pickup as you can get, I loved them when I had them and now I have my semi I'm debating which magnet to go for when I change out the Gotohs.
My thoughs are further complicated as I'm wondering whether I should get a Jazz box and not try to compromise too much with my 335, so have a real blues machine and something with no centre block to crack on with some Jazz stuff. I played a peerless Renaissance yesterday in Sounds Great. Although still a thinline it is totally acoustic and had a really nice mellow tone to it....
How do you approach your Jazz playing? I'm currently trying to learn scales and arpeggios all over the fretboard so I can pick out chord and colour tones and know what to play over what chord as it passes. Or if I'm playing solo, play a chord then hit the right melodic passages prior to the next chord. I can play a few nice Jazz progressions but really I have just learned those without understanding what I'm playing. I'm finding the jump from Blues Rock pentatonic playing to Jazz beginner pretty difficult!
Anyway, keep up the good work!
Thank you for that Tom, :) Do be careful though, as you might be afflicted with 'Post melodic stress disorder' .
The Peerless Renaissance seems ideal for your purposes - as you would get that characteristic woodiness and breath of the fully hollow, but with ( I presume ) a modest attenuation of the tendency to feedback quickly. The other great thing about the Renaissance, is that 'Lyre' tailpiece set right back , which enables you to put much heavier strings on the guitar, and they still feel easy to play - once the set up is perfected.
As for my own approach, being a fellow novice to all this ; was largely inspired ( as was this melody ) by various comments made by the late Joe Pass - and the DVD " An Evening With Joe Pass " which is in fact a relaxed interview, a guitar 'clinic' and eventually a few numbers from the night's show ( Including a far better version of the tune you were just listening to ). The interview part reminded me that he was originally limited to hearing stuff at the record store, then racing home to try and do something similar. Prior to that epipany I too was put off ( for about ten years ) by thinking I had to learn lots of ( rather dry and academic ) stuff in parallel, then one day someone would tell me how the h**l to put it all together.
The penny eventually dropped, that if I just concentrated on finding the melody line, then finding chords to hang on every few notes, any lack of chord vocabulary, would be enjoyably addressed by needing to find a chord voicing for that one note - in that one place in the song. Was the note / sentiment of that note wanting to suggest a further development ? or was it at the end of a verse / chorus, so could be less 'coloured' . I quickly realised , that ( for me ) instead following the chord charts slavishly, OR working out what were the technically correct substitutions, It was best to play the chord sheet in a simplified form a couple of times to hear the basic cadences and overall movement - then , with that in the back of my mind, just go back to finding chords as required.
The next step was finding that out of the many voicings I could use, only about 40-50 % sounded nice to my ear - and so learning other 'sour' voicings became redundant. If I wanted to create a suspenseful passing chord, I would instead 'morph' the current chord one note at a time , till I heard a decent link to the next one. The slender but comprehensive 'Joe Pass chord book' really helped - as he shows the notes in each chord, but does not name the chord. After all - change the root and it migrates into a different 'family' altogether. Instead he has pages divided into Major sounds, minor sounds - e.t.c.
Also , I considered that Joe Pass always recommended ditching any chord "grip" that you found hard to reach, or be unable to flow into. He ( Like Jimmy Bruno) Is / was a pragmatist, and in being so became a very efficient and adaptable session player. Just hitting two notes in succession , often alludes to a chord in the listener's ear. So, by following my heart and ears in choosing a chord, I would often find that I had accidentally used a 'proper' substitution. After all, the reason that substitutions work - is that they were suppose to sound good, not impress a scientist : to add new colours to the current chord. On top of which, a well placed 'ordinary' chord is often the nicest one for that moment. I found that listeners want to hear a melody with embellishments - not me playing through 'The bumper book of 1,00 chords' to stun them with sonic quantity instead of quality. Yes, there is a precise underlying science behind this stuff, but ultimately it is ART, an expression of how YOU want it to sound, YOUR sonic signature that is being developed.
I want to spend a good year or two concentrating on the Chord melodies - and how to throw surprises in ; then return to the single note soloing on a sound foundation. After all ( I was surprised to find ) - when you spend your time linking ideas , the single note runs and phrases almost suggest themselves.
The DVD 'No Nonsense Jazz Guitar' by Jimmy Bruno seems like a great way to study that side of the game.
Meanwhile, I remember a great piece of advice given to me in a pub by local player Jez Franks - that was to avoid any pentatonic 'shapes' and string bending for at least two years ( hitting the same notes for different reasons is of course 'allowed' ) . This is a style that seems to need demolishing of old ideas, cleanly building new ones, then eventually using both.
All the very best your journey Tom ! :D
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Lovely bit of playing and tone. I can't play jazz, but love listening to it. Django, Charlie and Wes especially.
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Lovely bit of playing and tone. I can't play jazz, but love listening to it. Django, Charlie and Wes especially.
Thank you Choucas, much appreciated. :)
Put a good word in for me when you worship at the altar of the mighty 'Eastman' tonight . :wink:
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Ha, if there was any justice in this world I would give it to as you would play it better than me. But there isn't and I won't.
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Ha, if there was any justice in this world I would give it to as you would play it better than me. But there isn't and I won't.
:lol:
Quite right too ... 8)
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Very nice stuff indeed. Now downloaded to my iPod - where do I send the £0.79p!
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Very nice stuff indeed. Now downloaded to my iPod - where do I send the £0.79p!
Thank you Ian, more than I deserve, but I promise to try harder next time . :lol:
ALL proceeds, to be forwarded to :
The Twinfan Foundation - " Help me pay for this Les Paul " appeal. Please, give as generously as he has spent.
:)
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Very nice indeed. I was very impressed and I enjoyed reading your thoughts about how you go about playing. I am still getting used to my semi but I reckon that at some point I might be looking at Stormies though I don't think I'll ever make a jazz player but never say never.
Very mellow and just the antidote to a long day.
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Very nice indeed. I was very impressed and I enjoyed reading your thoughts about how you go about playing. I am still getting used to my semi but I reckon that at some point I might be looking at Stormies though I don't think I'll ever make a jazz player but never say never.
Very mellow and just the antidote to a long day.
Cheers ! :)
I am glad my spontaneous thoughts on 'starting Jazz' found some resonance, as it was mostly my wish to emphasise that the exploration was more about enjoying the current puzzle in hand 'stepwise' - rather than feeling frustrated about the end product not appearing instantly. There was a nice example when I was arranging " The Way You Look Tonight " : in the third verse / 'B' section, It changes key to express ever growing heights of emotion. It is however, rather like a cat climbing a tree in that you move up in one leap for dramatic effect, but then when it was time to come back down, I was ill equipped ( using what I knew ) to creep back for the finale. I then remembered hearing something about using 'The circle of fifths ' . Sure enough, this worked ( after sanding it down and lubricating it ) - and thus a new principle had been learned, entirely within context, and therefore enjoyable AND easy to remember.
Of course 'tricks' were employed, even within this idea ; I made the first 3 steps of the melodic descent , whilst actually rising in pitch - then used a gentle single note run to insinuate the last few steps. Much more fun than reading about all the theories, and finding ways to 'shoe horn ' them in - at this early stage.
In this way, I can see how much easier it will be, to eventually take all the theory on board ( both harmonic and melodic ) without drowning in ideas and headaches. Yes, this is going to read horrendously naive to an accomplished musician , but we are talking about Joe average, with no formal training - trying to discover what is relevant - and in what order.
That is why I keep Joe Pass's seemingly self evident advice to " Play the music because you love it " in my avatar - as it means ( to me ) that you must be so passionate about playing the song ( even if no-one else ever hears it ) that you assemble it patiently and lovingly. There is of course the whole issue of wanting to express " The Music in yourself, instead of yourself in the music " . That is to say, you want the song to be heard and shared, to create an interest in that song - instead of wanting yourself to be 'The Main Feature'. I suppose it's about deciding whether you want to develop into a better musician instead of a more impressive entertainer. The two are not mutually exclusive, but you are best leading on one - according to your inherent character , motives and and values.
Now ; time for some more practice - and discovering ways I could have done the previous tunes, then applying those ideas to the next one. The challenge being to ensure that every new tune / arrangement includes a new and relevant idea :
" Just for fun". :)
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Derek, great advise there, I'll check the Joe Pass chord book and DVD out. I was completely with you until this part:-
avoid any pentatonic 'shapes' and string bending for at least two years
I fear this would only force my addiction underground, I'd end up in dirty underground pentatonic clubs at night when the family was asleep, sneaking out the house like an awful string bending monster!
I certainly see the benefit though, of re-learning the guitar without the usual guitar friendly pentatonic scale. I may start by learning to play like Grant Green so the jump is not too large. Then perhaps only have pentatonics and string bending at the weekend!
Thanks for the advise, food for thought!
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Joe Pass Guitar Chords can be downloaded here:-
http://aprendoguitarra.com/data/miquel/Guitar%20Techniques%20-%20Joe%20Pass%20-%20Guitar%20Chords.pdf
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Joe Pass Guitar Chords can be downloaded here:-
http://aprendoguitarra.com/data/miquel/Guitar%20Techniques%20-%20Joe%20Pass%20-%20Guitar%20Chords.pdf
Brilliant ! :D
In the meantime, the slender-but-tasty book / CD: " Cool Blues, Hot Jazz " by local lad ( and Matamp endorsee ) Adrian Ingram is good. It's what gave me the 'appetiser' to try new stuff , in the context of the old stuff when last gigging . He boils down very nicely, how and where you can drop in your Pentatonics and minor / major scale ideas just wide of the usual target - and thus turning your cheap roll up :mrgreen: into a menthol cigarette 8) - for at least part of the time. That lovely moment when your band mates see the same movements , but then ask you ( in Jazzbo language ) : " Where did you learn that crazy s**t " ? :lol:
Ultimately, the Joe Pass DVD, just floored me with it's format, beauty and accessibility . A real " road to Damascus" experience ( as Afghan Dave would say ). :)
Thanks for bringing that link to a wider audience Tom ; it's great for just trying various chords - and deciding which ones are your favorites. Also great for breaking the shackles, when you realise that many 'shapes' re-appear on / in different categories. I like the idea that you have the notes spelled out, so you can re- assemble a chord , or part chord - where and when you want, somewhere else on the neck. Like putting a jigsaw puzzle together ; if you get a vast expanse of blue sky to fill - keep trying all the blue sky pieces till one eventually fits. BUT no hammering the pieces !
Over and out ... :)
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Lovely stuff again Delboy.
You can really hear the zing (and swoosh!) of the roundrounds compared to the flatwounds on your Vintage (I've got flatwound Thomastiks on my Jazzer and I love them even though the gold plating wore off in a matter of hours). The Stormy tone is quite different to the Manhattans. It's hard to say which I prefer. I'm naturally drawn to humbuckers, but as good as the SMs sound they seem a bit 'flat' compared to the fruity mids of the Manhattans.
Anyway, these are just trifles and the tones are still pro level in my opinion despite the restrictions of home recording.
Your playing is an inspiration too, I think you've got a gift for chord melody approach. More please.
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( in Jazzbo language ) : " Where did you learn that crazy s**t " ? :
One of the things I love about Jazz is that despite it's complexity, it's so down to earth and honest. Phrases like that were the norm back in the '50s (if not before), as Miles Davis said "I'm hiring a mother$%&#er to play, not for what color he is."
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Lovely stuff again Delboy.
You can really hear the zing (and swoosh!) of the roundrounds compared to the flatwounds on your Vintage (I've got flatwound Thomastiks on my Jazzer and I love them even though the gold plating wore off in a matter of hours). The Stormy tone is quite different to the Manhattans. It's hard to say which I prefer. I'm naturally drawn to humbuckers, but as good as the SMs sound they seem a bit 'flat' compared to the fruity mids of the Manhattans.
Anyway, these are just trifles and the tones are still pro level in my opinion despite the restrictions of home recording.
Your playing is an inspiration too, I think you've got a gift for chord melody approach. More please.
Cheers Mate ! :)
Your are absolutely spot on about the whole Stormy Monday / Manhattan thing. I have sent the Stormies off to have their AII magnets put back in - as I love the idea of having a contrasting, heavy round-wound / humbucker guitar for many of the reasons cited above. From my memories of them with AII magnets, I anticipate a bit of the 'tooth' taken off the top end, but still articulate, with a softening of the bass. I will of course post the 'comparison shot ' when they arrive.
For Jazz, I would ( If and when I get the readies ) have a 'spare' nickel Manhattan set for later, a single neck Manhattan - and keep them as a treasure for later years. They really are my favorite B.K.P for this stuff. They have an almost indescribable quality / sound - which you did however, described very nicely.
Regarding your words of encouragement for me to continue on this path - I am most grateful .
( Shall I send the cheque to the usual address ? ) 8)
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( in Jazzbo language ) : " Where did you learn that crazy s**t " ? :
One of the things I love about Jazz is that despite it's complexity, it's so down to earth and honest. Phrases like that were the norm back in the '50s (if not before), as Miles Davis said "I'm hiring a mother$%&#er to play, not for what color he is."
:lol:
I LOVE that quotation ! :lol:
I like the other comment he was quoted as saying : " I'll play it now and explain it later... ".
Yours still takes the 'Golden Guinea' though . :lol:
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( in Jazzbo language ) : " Where did you learn that crazy s**t " ? :
One of the things I love about Jazz is that despite it's complexity, it's so down to earth and honest. Phrases like that were the norm back in the '50s (if not before), as Miles Davis said "I'm hiring a mother$%&#er to play, not for what color he is."
:lol:
I LOVE that quotation ! :lol:
I like the other comment he was quoted as saying : " I'll play it now and explain it later... ".
Yours still takes the 'Golden Guinea' though . :lol:
Another classic I'm sure you know, just before he went on stage at the Isle Of Wight Festival he was asked "What's the name of the piece you're going to play?"
He replied, "Call it anything (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmJwV3Xkl8M)".
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( in Jazzbo language ) : " Where did you learn that crazy s**t " ? :
One of the things I love about Jazz is that despite it's complexity, it's so down to earth and honest. Phrases like that were the norm back in the '50s (if not before), as Miles Davis said "I'm hiring a mother$%&#er to play, not for what color he is."
:lol:
I LOVE that quotation ! :lol:
I like the other comment he was quoted as saying : " I'll play it now and explain it later... ".
Yours still takes the 'Golden Guinea' though . :lol:
Another classic I'm sure you know, just before he went on stage at the Isle Of Wight Festival he was asked "What's the name of the piece you're going to play?"
He replied, "Call it anything (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmJwV3Xkl8M)".
:lol: