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Author Topic: AIV Stormy Mondays in Full Hollow archtop.  (Read 11422 times)

Fourth Feline

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Re: AIV Stormy Mondays in Full Hollow archtop.
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2010, 11:01:13 AM »
Very nice indeed. I was very impressed and I enjoyed reading your thoughts about how you go about playing. I am still getting used to my semi but I reckon that at some point I might be looking at Stormies though I don't think I'll ever make a jazz player but never say never.
Very mellow and just the antidote to a long day.

Cheers !  :)

I am glad my spontaneous thoughts on 'starting Jazz' found some resonance, as it was mostly my wish to emphasise that the exploration was more about enjoying the current puzzle in hand  'stepwise' - rather than feeling frustrated about the end product not appearing instantly.   There was a nice example when I was arranging " The Way You Look Tonight " : in the third verse / 'B' section, It changes key to express ever growing heights of emotion. It is however, rather  like a cat climbing a tree in that you move up in one leap for dramatic effect, but then when it was time to come back down, I was ill equipped ( using what I knew ) to creep back for the finale. I then remembered hearing something about using 'The circle of fifths ' . Sure enough, this worked ( after sanding it down and lubricating it ) - and thus a new principle had been learned, entirely within context, and therefore  enjoyable AND easy to remember.

Of course 'tricks' were employed, even within this idea ; I made the first 3 steps of the melodic descent , whilst actually rising in pitch - then used a gentle single note run to insinuate the last few steps. Much more fun than reading about all the theories, and finding ways to 'shoe horn ' them in - at this early stage.

In this way, I can see how much easier it will be, to eventually take all the theory on board ( both harmonic and melodic ) without drowning in ideas and headaches.  Yes, this is going to read horrendously naive to an accomplished musician , but we are talking about Joe average, with no formal training - trying to discover what is relevant - and in what order.

That is why I keep Joe Pass's seemingly self evident advice to " Play the music because you love it " in my avatar - as it  means ( to me ) that you must be so passionate about playing the song ( even if no-one else ever hears it ) that you assemble it patiently and lovingly. There is of course the whole issue of wanting to express " The Music in yourself, instead of yourself in the music " . That is to say, you want the song to be heard and shared, to create an interest in that song - instead of wanting yourself to be 'The Main Feature'.  I suppose it's about deciding whether you want to develop into a better musician instead of a more impressive entertainer. The two are not mutually exclusive, but you are best leading on one - according to your inherent character , motives and and values.

Now ; time for some more practice - and discovering ways I could have done the previous tunes, then applying those ideas to the next one. The challenge being to ensure that every new tune / arrangement includes a new and relevant idea :

" Just for fun".  :)

« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 11:09:27 AM by Fourth Feline »

tomjackson

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Re: AIV Stormy Mondays in Full Hollow archtop.
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2010, 02:53:16 PM »

Derek, great advise there, I'll check the Joe Pass chord book and DVD out.  I was completely with you until this part:-

avoid any pentatonic 'shapes' and string bending for at least two years

I fear this would only force my addiction underground, I'd end up in dirty underground pentatonic clubs at night when the family was asleep, sneaking out the house like an awful string bending monster!


I certainly see the benefit though, of re-learning the guitar without the usual guitar friendly pentatonic scale.  I may start by learning to play like Grant Green so the jump is not too large.  Then perhaps only have pentatonics and string bending at the weekend!

Thanks for the advise, food for thought!


tomjackson

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Re: AIV Stormy Mondays in Full Hollow archtop.
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2010, 03:02:33 PM »

Fourth Feline

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Re: AIV Stormy Mondays in Full Hollow archtop.
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2010, 03:22:19 PM »

Joe Pass Guitar Chords can be downloaded here:-

http://aprendoguitarra.com/data/miquel/Guitar%20Techniques%20-%20Joe%20Pass%20-%20Guitar%20Chords.pdf

Brilliant !  :D

In the meantime, the slender-but-tasty book / CD: " Cool Blues, Hot Jazz " by local lad ( and Matamp endorsee ) Adrian Ingram is good.  It's what gave me the 'appetiser' to try new stuff , in the context of the old stuff when last gigging .  He boils down very nicely, how and where you can drop in your Pentatonics and minor / major scale ideas  just wide of the usual target - and thus turning  your cheap roll up  :mrgreen: into a menthol cigarette  8) - for at least part of the time. That lovely moment when your band mates see the same movements , but then ask you  ( in Jazzbo language ) :  " Where did you learn that crazy s**t " ?   :lol:

Ultimately, the Joe Pass DVD, just floored me with it's format, beauty and accessibility . A real " road to Damascus" experience ( as Afghan Dave would say ).  :)

Thanks for bringing that link to a wider audience Tom ; it's great for just trying various chords - and deciding which ones are your favorites. Also great for breaking the shackles, when you realise that many 'shapes' re-appear on / in different categories.  I like the idea that you have the notes spelled out, so you can re- assemble a chord , or part chord - where and when you want,  somewhere else on the neck.  Like putting a jigsaw puzzle together ;   if you get a vast expanse of blue sky to fill - keep trying all the blue sky pieces till one eventually fits. BUT no hammering the pieces !

Over and out ...  :)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 03:27:41 PM by Fourth Feline »

gingataff

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Re: AIV Stormy Mondays in Full Hollow archtop.
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2010, 04:17:58 PM »
Lovely stuff again Delboy.

You can really hear the zing (and swoosh!) of the roundrounds compared to the flatwounds on your Vintage (I've got flatwound Thomastiks on my Jazzer and I love them even though the gold plating wore off in a matter of hours). The Stormy tone is quite different to the Manhattans. It's hard to say which I prefer. I'm naturally drawn to humbuckers, but as good as the SMs sound they seem a bit 'flat' compared to the fruity mids of the Manhattans.
Anyway, these are just trifles and the tones are still pro level in my opinion despite the restrictions of home recording.
Your playing is an inspiration too, I think you've got a gift for chord melody approach. More please.
I see a rainbow rising
Look there on the horizon
And I'm coming home

gingataff

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Re: AIV Stormy Mondays in Full Hollow archtop.
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2010, 04:29:00 PM »
  ( in Jazzbo language ) :  " Where did you learn that crazy s**t " ?   :
One of the things I love about Jazz is that despite it's complexity, it's so down to earth and honest.  Phrases like that were the norm back in the '50s (if not before),  as Miles Davis said "I'm hiring a mother$%&#er to play, not for what color he is."
I see a rainbow rising
Look there on the horizon
And I'm coming home

Fourth Feline

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Re: AIV Stormy Mondays in Full Hollow archtop.
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2010, 04:35:33 PM »
Lovely stuff again Delboy.

You can really hear the zing (and swoosh!) of the roundrounds compared to the flatwounds on your Vintage (I've got flatwound Thomastiks on my Jazzer and I love them even though the gold plating wore off in a matter of hours). The Stormy tone is quite different to the Manhattans. It's hard to say which I prefer. I'm naturally drawn to humbuckers, but as good as the SMs sound they seem a bit 'flat' compared to the fruity mids of the Manhattans.
Anyway, these are just trifles and the tones are still pro level in my opinion despite the restrictions of home recording.
Your playing is an inspiration too, I think you've got a gift for chord melody approach. More please.

Cheers Mate !  :)

Your are absolutely spot on about the whole Stormy Monday / Manhattan thing.  I have sent the Stormies off to have their AII magnets put back in - as I love the idea of having a contrasting, heavy round-wound / humbucker guitar for many of the reasons cited above. From my memories of them with AII magnets, I anticipate a bit of the 'tooth' taken off the top end, but still articulate, with a softening of the bass. I will of course post the 'comparison shot ' when they arrive.

For Jazz, I would ( If and when I get the readies ) have a 'spare' nickel Manhattan set for later, a single neck Manhattan - and keep them as a treasure for later years.  They really are my favorite B.K.P for this stuff.   They have an almost indescribable quality / sound - which you did however, described very nicely.

Regarding your words of encouragement for me to continue on this path - I am most grateful .

( Shall I send the cheque to the usual address ? )  8)


Fourth Feline

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Re: AIV Stormy Mondays in Full Hollow archtop.
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2010, 04:38:59 PM »
  ( in Jazzbo language ) :  " Where did you learn that crazy s**t " ?   :
One of the things I love about Jazz is that despite it's complexity, it's so down to earth and honest.  Phrases like that were the norm back in the '50s (if not before),  as Miles Davis said "I'm hiring a mother$%&#er to play, not for what color he is."

 :lol:

I LOVE that quotation !  :lol:

I like the other comment he was quoted as saying : " I'll play it now and explain it later... ".

Yours still takes the 'Golden Guinea' though .  :lol:

gingataff

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Re: AIV Stormy Mondays in Full Hollow archtop.
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2010, 04:49:48 PM »
  ( in Jazzbo language ) :  " Where did you learn that crazy s**t " ?   :
One of the things I love about Jazz is that despite it's complexity, it's so down to earth and honest.  Phrases like that were the norm back in the '50s (if not before),  as Miles Davis said "I'm hiring a mother$%&#er to play, not for what color he is."

 :lol:

I LOVE that quotation !  :lol:

I like the other comment he was quoted as saying : " I'll play it now and explain it later... ".

Yours still takes the 'Golden Guinea' though .  :lol:
Another classic I'm sure you know, just before he went on stage at the Isle Of Wight Festival he was asked "What's the name of the piece you're going to play?"
He replied, "Call it anything".
I see a rainbow rising
Look there on the horizon
And I'm coming home

Fourth Feline

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Re: AIV Stormy Mondays in Full Hollow archtop.
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2010, 04:53:55 PM »
  ( in Jazzbo language ) :  " Where did you learn that crazy s**t " ?   :
One of the things I love about Jazz is that despite it's complexity, it's so down to earth and honest.  Phrases like that were the norm back in the '50s (if not before),  as Miles Davis said "I'm hiring a mother$%&#er to play, not for what color he is."

 :lol:

I LOVE that quotation !  :lol:

I like the other comment he was quoted as saying : " I'll play it now and explain it later... ".

Yours still takes the 'Golden Guinea' though .  :lol:
Another classic I'm sure you know, just before he went on stage at the Isle Of Wight Festival he was asked "What's the name of the piece you're going to play?"
He replied, "Call it anything".

 :lol: