Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: dheim on March 15, 2010, 08:46:39 PM
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let's start saying that i'm a complete idiot AND that the tech 21 midi moose is a pile of very expensive shitee... anyway i connected it to a 12v power source AND immediately discovered that i shouldn't have. ok. blew it the first second i put it off the box. if someone specified anywhere on that fuc*in box that 9-15 volts were supported JUST with phantom power it would have been better... i asked thomann for a change (god, after all i had it for 1 hour!) and they answered that their tech should have had a look at it before deciding to fix it at their expense.
so i brought it to MY tech (i would have paid anyway and so i decided to bypass the whole packing-sending-waiting an eternal queue-paying mail expenses thing).
well, he said that
1) it was completely fuc*ed and beyond every hope to repair without having to change virtually every bit of its guts
and that
2) the unit already suffered a serious damage and someone already repaired it quite badly
i decided not to raise any issue with thomann (after all i can't prove it and i lost my money anyway...), but
W T F ?!?!
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Sorry to hear about that dheim, but thanks for raising the matter here ; as they have often made items and stock choices on their website look tempting - and so I feel that your most regrettable situation, may at least act as a timely warning to others. Their loss in the longer term - as news spreads fast , news spreads Googley fast. :evil:
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very weird.. i never had any issues with them .. you should've just sent it back, as you DO have a 30 day no questions asked money return guarantee.
i did have an issue with musikhaus.de .. though it wasnt THEIR fault, that the amp sucked.. so, they're ok :P i called them after two weeks, said i want to return the amp since it wasnt what i hoped for, they sent an UPS guy over, took the box and i got all of my money back. thomann as far as i know has exactly the same policy.
if you told them, the product arrived damaged, they would've taken it back.
it is possible, that someone did the exact same mistake that you did, sent it back on terms, that he wasn't satisfied with it.. and i doubt they test EVERY product they get back (had a friend who had a job testing returned stuff and.. they just see if it turns on and that's about it.. unless it's a lot of fun to play with.. like an RC helicopter), before they return it to the shelf for further dispatch. you probably just got unlucky, cos i really used to order from them a lot.
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this is really my first bad experience with them - and not my first order, but their answer was really strange. i knew about the 30 day guarantee too...
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weird.. i never exchanged something, so they'd offer to repair or something.
good luck with it
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I'd guess if you had sent it back to Thomann their tech would've said it was beyond repair and they'd have replaced it anyway.
But if your tech's right that someone had already repaired it, that's another matter. :?
Personally I've ordered from Thomann several times and I've always been impressed. No problems so far (touch wood).
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I'd guess if you had sent it back to Thomann their tech would've said it was beyond repair and they'd have replaced it anyway.
+1
But if your tech's right that someone had already repaired it, that's another matter. :?
it might have been another customer who did it dishonestly and then sent it back to thomann without saying. i once got an mp3 recorder from thomann which was in new condition, but had clearly been out to a customer before since some of the packaging was opened. didn't bother me, since clearly if customers return working stuff, thomann can hardly be expected to throw it away then
Personally I've ordered from Thomann several times and I've always been impressed. No problems so far (touch wood).
+1
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But if your tech's right that someone had already repaired it, that's another matter. :?
+1
I've ordered from thomann once, everything was fine. :)
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dheim hang on in there and see if you can't come up with a bit of strategy. I mean okay you made an initial wrong move with the power supply, but it seems you're saying things weren't clearly explained in the quick start. More significantly your tech said what he did about it's history. If he is willing to stand by that statement then tis writ in stone. You can then join every significant forum and slag them uphill and down dale til they send you a grands worth of gear to shut you up. Speculation yes, but far from impossible.
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Never had a problem with them. Ordered guitars parts and what not.
The band once got a whole PA system. Turned out it was faulty. Returning was no problem and they shipped a new one in just a couple of days.
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dheim hang on in there and see if you can't come up with a bit of strategy. I mean okay you made an initial wrong move with the power supply, but it seems you're saying things weren't clearly explained in the quick start. More significantly your tech said what he did about it's history. If he is willing to stand by that statement then tis writ in stone. You can then join every significant forum and slag them uphill and down dale til they send you a grands worth of gear to shut you up. Speculation yes, but far from impossible.
well, the thing had no manual inside the box, just a downloadable pdf file in the manufacturer's website... that i read prior to buy it. my fault was to remember just the particular sentence in which they talked about phantom power. so 9-15v stuck in my mind...
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dheim hang on in there and see if you can't come up with a bit of strategy. I mean okay you made an initial wrong move with the power supply, but it seems you're saying things weren't clearly explained in the quick start. More significantly your tech said what he did about it's history. If he is willing to stand by that statement then tis writ in stone. You can then join every significant forum and slag them uphill and down dale til they send you a grands worth of gear to shut you up. Speculation yes, but far from impossible.
sorry, that will not happen with thomann. they will at the best possible outcome say, sorry that happened, it was our fault, that we sent you a faulty item and refund you. what are you going to do? sue them for being polite? mistakes happen to the best of people. now you're gonna be a tw@t, because it blew up when connected to the wrong kind of power.. dheims' mistake btw. for all you know, it could've been working before the screwup.
seriously, send it back, write that it blew up when you connected the power supply and they will replace it or refund you if you wish. end of story. what is there to bicker about?
if it had no manual and it was clearly used before, you could have phoned them and asked for a brand new one, or moved this into a miryad of other possible outcomes, you chose the worst.
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i bought a cheap ibanez guitar from them a few years ago and after a few months i noticed a resonance noise when i played an open A with distortion. I emailed them ,they arranged collection and checked it out , and said it
was ok(my imagination)I later traced it to a trem spring , i easily fixed it with a cardboard damper
But theircustomer policy was efficient and polite;they shipped it from france back to germany and back to me without question.
I was so impressed i bought the company.......no er i bought my next amp from them.Customer service Exists still.
My brother had a bass drum pedal changed 3 times from uk no charge
sorry to hear your story but i can't fault 'em
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That is very odd - I don't think that Thomann sell a repaired unit, and if, I don't think it would be repaired badly, as they probably send it back to Tech21. In fact, I'd be quite surprised if they did this type of repair work.
I've ordered a lot in the past and my landlord, who runs a business as a sound engineer, has ordered gear worth thousands from them.
They've made a couple of mistakes in the past, but not very many at all and everything worked out well in the end.
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if it had no manual and it was clearly used before, you could have phoned them and asked for a brand new one, or moved this into a miryad of other possible outcomes, you chose the worst.
to be fair to dheim, he only realised that it had been used when he took it to his tech. i'd be extremely annoyed too to be sent something which had been repaired when i thought it was new (though I wouldn't necessarily expect to get a ton of stuff out of them, but i'd expect them to make it right).
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to be fair to dheim, he only realised that it had been used when he took it to his tech. i'd be extremely annoyed too to be sent something which had been repaired when i thought it was new (though I wouldn't necessarily expect to get a ton of stuff out of them, but i'd expect them to make it right).
which they offered .. and IMO, they still probably will, if he sends it back
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did they? i didn't notice that. but yeah, if they offer to replace or refund it (including all postage charges), that's probably fair enough. EDIT: unless I'm missing something, they only offered to fix it.
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did they? i didn't notice that. but yeah, if they offer to replace or refund it (including all postage charges), that's probably fair enough. EDIT: unless I'm missing something, they only offered to fix it.
if you ask me, that's enough on their part. i seriously doubt they deliberately sent a faulty item, so offering to fix something that is not their mistake to begin with is good enough. if they decide, it can't be fixed, they'll either replace/refund/whatever, depending on how dheim plays this. i still think, if he sends it back and tells them it didn't work, when connected to the power supply, they'll send him another. Or they might open it up, see it's been 'repaired' and blown up, they might tell him, the warranty is void, if any of the seals are broken.
now i think this has been handled the wrong way around from the get go.
1st, if it's a used item, he should've sent it back in the beginning. i know that not everyone inspects the item, when they get it, but at least check if the seals are intact.
2nd if you DID screw up by any chance.. LEAVE IT THE $%&# ALONE don't open it, don't take it to a tech, leave it alone, call the shop and tell them it doesn't work. they'll come pick it up and you'll either get a new one (which is the more likely scenario) or this one repaired. but seeing that it's very rare, that they have a tech on site, that can repair everything that goes through the shop, they'll send it off to a licensed repair shop and that will take some time.
3rd, if you DID tamper with it, thinking i can repair this, be careful on how you play. you can still get a refund or a new item, but it's more than likely, that they will take a look at it and see it's been opened and say it's your fault, warranty void.
3.1ddd :P if you did open it up, but miraculously kept the seals intact, there's still option 2
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I just don't understand why you have done some things you've stated.
Ok you messed up with the power supply but let's gloss over that.
Why give it to your "tech" at all?
Why didn't you just send it back and see how it all played out? I don't see what you want them to do.
You haven't been told "NO" yet over any request or had your time wasted. :?
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i disagree. it's the customer's right to choose whether he/she wants a replacement, repair or refund, not the shop's (certainly in the UK, and I assume the EU as well).
and dheim only discovered that it wasn't new and had been replaced once he took it to his tech, it wasn't apparent that it wasn't new from a cursory look at it (i assume).
granted attaching the wrong power to it was kinda daft, but thomann is in the wrong, too, if it sent out a repaired/refurbished item instead of a brand new one.
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Have they refused a replacement, repair or refund?
Well have they?
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thomann is in the wrong, too, if it sent out a repaired/refurbished item instead of a brand new one.
no, they are not. i've seen items, advertised on their page as showroom items and such. so i know they do stock those. the one that did the packaging, probably took the wrong one from the shelf. IT HAPPENS .. the real $%&#up would be if they refused to do anything. it is not illegal, to sell items, that were repaired. and as i've said, they probably didn't even realize they did sent out a repaired item.
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I'm wondering if dheim is wishing he'd never started this thread.... :wink:
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i disagree. it's the customer's right to choose whether he/she wants a replacement, repair or refund, not the shop's (certainly in the UK, and I assume the EU as well).
Wrong. The Bill of Sale should have a list of policies attached. When you send payment you are accepting these policies whether you bothered to read them or not.
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ugh, my quote button is not working. will have to do it manually...
"no, they are not. i've seen items, advertised on their page as showroom items and such. so i know they do stock those. the one that did the packaging, probably took the wrong one from the shelf. IT HAPPENS .. the real $%&#up would be if they refused to do anything. it is not illegal, to sell items, that were repaired. and as i've said, they probably didn't even realize they did sent out a repaired item."
I've seen those too, but I'm guessing he didn't buy one which was advertised as "ex-demo", "return" etc. Could be wrong, of course, and if he did buy a cheaper one which was a return, then I withdraw my support for his position. :lol:
"Wrong. The Bill of Sale should have a list of policies attached. When you send payment you are accepting these policies whether you bothered to read them or not."
As far as I'm aware, you are covered by statutory rights, certainly in the UK, and I assume in the EU as well (as a lot of our laws are based on EU laws). If the company's policy does not match up with the law, then the company policy has to change, kind of thing.
http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/before_you_buy/think_of/unfair-contracts#named2
http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/before_you_buy/buying-at-home/order/
http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/after_you_buy/buying_at_home/returning-cancelling/
the eu distance selling regulations (the third one) are EU-wide, as far as i'm aware. the law may be different in the USA. There are only very specific cases where you can't cancel within 7 days, and I don't think this purchase qualifies.
As I said, I'm not condoning using the wrong power supply, lol (though perhaps by not being sent a manual he might have a case there). EDIT: and I also agree that he should have contacted thomann to see what they would do, before starting this thread.
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I also agree that he should have contacted thomann to see what they would do, before starting this thread.
I've dealt with some crooked motherf**kers who run online shops who took money yet never dispatched the item. They then avoided all email/phone contact. Then I had to chase my money via the Credit Card company.
THAT IS AN AWFUL EXPERIENCE!
Thomann haven't even refused anything yet... I don't see what they have done wrong.
You are 100% right about the distance selling laws but as far as I can see he hasn't sought to apply them.
Try talking to them before pulling out the big guns. If they don't listen or act shady, then go after them with a hammer!
Most important... READ THE MANUAL (even if it is a download!) :lol:
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yeah, definitely. i would say that sending out something that was supposed to be new which was actually repaired is a bit off, though (but other than that, i agree).
that's another thing, always pay by credit card- more protection (whether the company gips you, or your number gets stolen online). :)
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I'm wondering if dheim is wishing he'd never started this thread.... :wink:
just a bit, yes... :)
i never denied my absurdly stupid fault (well, i didn't here, with the thomann guys i'd have lied to death... :)), nor i said that mine was the most rational approach to the problem... i just thought: well, if they won't send me a new one and will just fix it at my expense after discovering that if was completely my fault (in their email they stated more or less this adding that OF COURSE that wasn't the case but they had to clarify their policy...) at least i'll avoid mail expenses (that are not that cheap anyway) and a damn queue at the mail office. another fact is that those days i had no chance to go to the mail office...
i shouldn't have used the term "awful", there are certainly worse experiences with online dealers around (to say one i lost some money on the "seconds out" section thanks to a forumite that's either dead or vanished months ago) (no, i won't tell you who it was, after all he could be really dead...), but i had a mystical respect for thomann (i buyed many things from them and never had any problem) and this was a great letdown...
i'm not sure they can sell fixed gear as new, at least in italy that's not legal (but of course i bet that a lot of people does it anyway...), and i never expected it from such a huge and professional shop... on the other hand i can't imagine why my tech should have invented a weird story to justify that he wasn't able to fix it. well, maybe that's exactly why he did it, but i don't think so... the box looked damn old, so it's possible, honestly.