Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => The Dressing Room => Topic started by: dheim on March 29, 2010, 11:25:39 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0vctp35IkA
he's jeff loomis, not a bedroom shredder... he's an hell of a guitarist. but this video looks suspicious... movements are not completely natural... is it just me?
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Funny thing about playing that is as fast as this from a viewers point of view.....
I watched for the first 10 seconds then lost interest as it became difficult to follow musically and was lacking emotion to my ears.
He's a fantastic and pretty tasty player but there was nothing memorable about anything he played (or nothing I could hum to anyway)
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No, I see it, later in some of the rhythm sections.
I mean, its possible to play that fast, and loomis can almost certainly do t, but theres something too jerky and irregular in the swinging of his hair.
Why do you have to hum something for it to be good? I thought all of that ranged from musically interesting to outright great.
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Fretboard wan**ng.
Next ...
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in my opinion (and god knows how much i DON'T love shredding) Loomis is, above all, a GREAT guitarist and a great musician... don't be fooled by the obvious sweeps and scales, he has a sense of timing and (dis)harmony that goes far beyond shred... and, strange or not, i actually hum his stuff!
anyway i started having the impression that something's wrong in that video from the rhythm parts... not just his hair (the pass hanging from his neck devoids gravitational effects too), but there's something inhuman in the way his hands move while striking simple power chords... the original songs this solos are taken from are more or less this fast, but i suspect that some genious sped the video just a bit (and THAT's wanking!) to make him sound even faster. as Feline said it's funny and completely absurd, when the original material is already damn fast!
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It does look odd, but I don;t think it's sped up. I think you're seeing dropped frames from a bad frame rate conversion from the source video hence the jerkyness of movement.
The drums and peoples voices in the background sound normal to me which is usually tell tale sign of video doctoring.
Must admit the playing didn't do anything for me musically, impressive technically though.
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i think philip nailed it. bad camera and the youtube conversion -> cr@ppy video ..
i LOVE the comments though
HE CAN PALM MUTE WITH HIS HAIR!
had me in stitches! hahahaha
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HE CAN PALM MUTE WITH HIS HAIR!
Sadly, it's in no condition to do so.
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Why do you have to hum something for it to be good? I thought all of that ranged from musically interesting to outright great.
You probably don't , but when I think of great riffs or great solos (and this is just my own personal preferences) they are ones that you can remember in some form or another . They may be melodic or quirky, but ultimately something you can look forward to when hearing a track.
Admittedly later in the track he does a few more tasty riff like pieces (he is a brilliant player and has great technique - no doubt about it), and I do accept that this is a demonstration of his prowess at a trade show rather than a demonstration of his composition skills.
I like a player with a turn of speed, but it is more thrilling when he has been previously been playing at a slower pace (not unlike a sports car accelerating feels like a thrill, whilst driving constantly at 100mph feels little different from driving at 20mph - it's the acceleration /g force change that gives you goosebumps).
But that is just my own tastes
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I like a player with a turn of speed, but it is more thrilling when he has been previously been playing at a slower pace (not unlike a sports car accelerating feels like a thrill, whilst driving constantly at 100mph feels little different from driving at 20mph - it's the acceleration /g force change that gives you goosebumps).
Nicely put Jonathan . :)
My own tastes dictate that music should have a marked emotive content , and whatever that emotion be , that it be contrasted in presentation - as in life . Akin to the difference between Herbert von Karajan conducting, and Simon Rattle or Leonard Bernstein. That it should grasp some part of you that is meaningful ; then take it for an eventful journey.
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I like a player with a turn of speed, but it is more thrilling when he has been previously been playing at a slower pace (not unlike a sports car accelerating feels like a thrill, whilst driving constantly at 100mph feels little different from driving at 20mph - it's the acceleration /g force change that gives you goosebumps).
Nicely put Jonathan . :)
This clip addresses that point (musically & literally)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFNB0u1-84A
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I like a player with a turn of speed, but it is more thrilling when he has been previously been playing at a slower pace (not unlike a sports car accelerating feels like a thrill, whilst driving constantly at 100mph feels little different from driving at 20mph - it's the acceleration /g force change that gives you goosebumps).
Nicely put Jonathan . :)
This clip addresses that point (musically & literally)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFNB0u1-84A
Oooo yes ! That was captivating . There was a real narrative that developed ; and when it took off, it became dizzying. At no point did he loss touch of the original feeling . :)
As the chap said about Jeff Beck, " Every note, had a purpose involved ". I recall Jeff Beck as 'head honcho' on the excellent Roger Waters album " Amused To Death ". very moving, but technically 'solid'.
Thanks for posting that. :D
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Why do you have to hum something for it to be good? I thought all of that ranged from musically interesting to outright great.
You probably don't , but when I think of great riffs or great solos (and this is just my own personal preferences) they are ones that you can remember in some form or another . They may be melodic or quirky, but ultimately something you can look forward to when hearing a track.
Admittedly later in the track he does a few more tasty riff like pieces (he is a brilliant player and has great technique - no doubt about it), and I do accept that this is a demonstration of his prowess at a trade show rather than a demonstration of his composition skills.
I like a player with a turn of speed, but it is more thrilling when he has been previously been playing at a slower pace (not unlike a sports car accelerating feels like a thrill, whilst driving constantly at 100mph feels little different from driving at 20mph - it's the acceleration /g force change that gives you goosebumps).
But that is just my own tastes
Thats fine, not gonna tell you what to like; its just that you phrased your prior judgement a little absolutely. Music is subjective, of course.
Derek, this does not lack emotional content - to many listeners its taut, intense, aggressive and powerful music, and loomis does it very well. These are as much parts of the human condition as anything else. That you dont hear that in music or look for it in it doesnt mean that there is no emotional content. It also achieves this while being meticulously crafted and premeditated - ever the paradox of writing metal; its a genre that demands exacting attention to detail, planning and practice, but needs to sound spontaneous and carry a lot of forward motion and life in the sound, and loomis is very good at this as well (to those that are acclimatised to hearing that/looking for it of course) and giving you your next hit (metal often being a drug-like music that rouses some atavistic adrenal response; you listen to it to get a 'fix' as much as anything else).
Plus I'd argue that while most arts find their impact in contrast, metal can often find its impact in relentlessness.
There is also an element of 'musical games', and technique games - the playing of something because it sounds $%&#ing cool, or is fun to play. Jazz is also rife with this ;)
I had expected you to be more open minded, did I miss a meeting?
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(http://www.steak-enthusiast.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/NewYorkStripSteak.jpg)
or
(http://i.ehow.com/images/a04/s9/2d/cook-mince-beef-200X200.jpg)
Same but somehow different?
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I'm hungry now.
mmmmmmmm steaaaaak
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I was going to make a cheap joke about the guy firing a machine gun in the background but I am too scared to.
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Why do you have to hum something for it to be good? I thought all of that ranged from musically interesting to outright great.
You probably don't , but when I think of great riffs or great solos (and this is just my own personal preferences) they are ones that you can remember in some form or another . They may be melodic or quirky, but ultimately something you can look forward to when hearing a track.
Admittedly later in the track he does a few more tasty riff like pieces (he is a brilliant player and has great technique - no doubt about it), and I do accept that this is a demonstration of his prowess at a trade show rather than a demonstration of his composition skills.
I like a player with a turn of speed, but it is more thrilling when he has been previously been playing at a slower pace (not unlike a sports car accelerating feels like a thrill, whilst driving constantly at 100mph feels little different from driving at 20mph - it's the acceleration /g force change that gives you goosebumps).
But that is just my own tastes
"Thats fine, not gonna tell you what to like"
"Derek, this does not lack emotional content ".
"I had expected you to be more open minded , did I miss a meeting? ".
To trim the fat off this one :
You are at least correct at point one ; in that I ( and no doubt Jonathan ) do not ever require directing as to what we should find desirable , and how we should find something worthy of our consideration.
The video sample that was presented at the outset , lacks any relevant emotive or artistic / expressive content to me - from my end of life and it's many experiences. It says nothing to me , it inspires nothing within me.
The "meeting" you presume to have missed , in your somewhat youthful , characteristically petulant ( and certainly ill advised ) hint of sarcasm - might well have been the one where It was assumed by the rest of the faculty that I also had no requirement to be told as to what 'open mindedness' consists of - or how it is is best manifest .
My own inclination towards expressing a genuine curiosity in exploring the seemingly contrary opinions and tastes of others - usually being based on / fueled by an affection or respect for the individual wishing to explore those ideas with me.
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Why do you have to hum something for it to be good? I thought all of that ranged from musically interesting to outright great.
You probably don't , but when I think of great riffs or great solos (and this is just my own personal preferences) they are ones that you can remember in some form or another . They may be melodic or quirky, but ultimately something you can look forward to when hearing a track.
Admittedly later in the track he does a few more tasty riff like pieces (he is a brilliant player and has great technique - no doubt about it), and I do accept that this is a demonstration of his prowess at a trade show rather than a demonstration of his composition skills.
I like a player with a turn of speed, but it is more thrilling when he has been previously been playing at a slower pace (not unlike a sports car accelerating feels like a thrill, whilst driving constantly at 100mph feels little different from driving at 20mph - it's the acceleration /g force change that gives you goosebumps).
But that is just my own tastes
"Thats fine, not gonna tell you what to like"
"Derek, this does not lack emotional content ".
"I had expected you to be more open minded , did I miss a meeting? ".
You are at least correct at point one ; in that I ( and no doubt Jonathan ) do not ever require directing as to what we should find desirable , and how we should find something worthy of our consideration.
The video sample that was presented at the outset , lacks any relevant emotive or artistic / expressive content to me - from my end of life and it's many experiences. It says nothing to me , it inspires nothing within me.
The "meeting" you presume to have missed , in your somewhat youthful , characteristically petulant ( and certainly ill advised ) hint of sarcasm - might well have been the one where It was assumed by the rest of the faculty that I also had no requirement to be told as to what 'open mindedness' consists of - or how it is is best manifest .
My own inclination towards expressing a genuine curiosity in exploring the seemingly contrary opinions and tastes of others - usually being based on / fueled by an affection or respect for the individual wishing to explore those ideas with me.
-Response deleted, clearly a waste of time; the operative part being:
As you were; clearly nothing to discuss here.
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I dont go round gliby sh!tting on what others clearly enjoy and respect. I thought you may take the opportunity to reframe your stance if you understood that, while it means nothing to you, it means something to others. Instead you entrenched it. I never, at any point, demanded that anyone like it, I simply pointed out that it is liked and does mean something to some of us. Perhaps I didnt make it sufficiently clear, perhaps you jumped the gun with this response.
Jonathan made it clear that this is not to his taste, he didnt use that subjectivity as a platform for condescension.
As you were; clearly nothing to discuss here.
PDT_038
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I dont go round gliby sh!tting on what others clearly enjoy and respect. I thought you may take the opportunity to reframe your stance if you understood that, while it means nothing to you, it means something to others. Instead you entrenched it. I never, at any point, demanded that anyone like it, I simply pointed out that it is liked and does mean something to some of us. Perhaps I didnt make it sufficiently clear, perhaps you jumped the gun with this response.
Jonathan made it clear that this is not to his taste, he didnt use that subjectivity as a platform for condescension.
As you were; clearly nothing to discuss here.
PDT_038
Edited out a good 15 minutes before you posted that. Odd. Maybe there a lag?
Oh, if youre going to quote stuff that I decided that I didnt want here, then its missing parts; I seem to recall about derek being abnormally antagonistic and hoping that he'd misinterpreted my other post, which was intended as a respectful invitation to consider that some music may not mean anything to him (we can all think of music like that) but it does mean something to someone, and so to refrain from denegrating it (on the basis that while the musics are different, the passions for them are the same). If youre gonna quote stuff I delete after I delete it (however you managed that) you could at least not edit it to only tell half a story, or is that too much to ask?
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The video doesn't look (or sound) sped up to me, I think it's just a very poor quality video that's been mangled a bit when YouTube converted it to flash format. Looks a bit odd due to being very low framerate. ;)
Anyway, those guitar shows are all about showing off chops, and the stuff he was playing is a medley of stuff taken from multiple songs.
The opening part is the solo from Final Product off the This Godless Endeavour album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CpuqR8NM1k
Heard in context it fits the song perfectly. ;)
Stuff from his solo album shows he doesn't just shred. For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug8yUkr8NqM
Oh, and the guy can play piano too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eipn_iwI330
Personally I can't wait for the new album in May :P
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New album!
I'd almost forgotten they make albums; its been so long. Should be great.
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New album!
I'd almost forgotten they make albums; its been so long. Should be great.
Here's an annoyingly short teaser on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh_Oa47uenQ
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Never!
MORE!
(Sorry)
Way too short but whats there sounds ace - much more in an EoR vibe of late 80s metallica meets meshuggah, but.....different.
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For the record I actually like what I have heard of Nevermore, and liked some of the old Sanctuary stuff , which I used to hear when I used to listen to a lot of bands like Fates Warning, Vicious Rumours, Savatage, Crimson Glory etc.
To be fair I also dislike what some of my own guitar heros do when they go off on a guitar playing wank-fest (george Lynch springs to mind) although I love what they did in a band format.(in this case Dokken & Lynch Mob)
It is the kind of mindless shred-noodling that you see so much of at Guitar shows and is there to impress punters (although sometimes seems to be a "my willy is bigger than yours" kind of statement).
I am by my own admission a big fan of riffs, songs, melodies, but am pretty open minded.
What stops me listening to an awful lot of really heavy bands is shite vocalists (grunty growly screechycookie monster types) rather than the onslaught of drums and guitars.
I did like the Andy Timmons clip - it was rather nice ( I do have one of his solo albums lurking somewhere here)
Thats fine, not gonna tell you what to like; its just that you phrased your prior judgement a little absolutely. Music is subjective, of course.
I didn't think that my first post had been an absolute statement as it contained the words: "to my ears" and I complimented Loomis as well....
But I stressed the point more in my second post as maybe it wasn't clear enough in my first post
Music (and the rest of the arts) is always subjective and one man's meat is another mans poison ........as they say
MDV - you dont have to defend metal to me - I'm not attacking it (although I may say what I don't like about certain aspects of it - just as I might about bands that I listen to a lot)
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cheers for clips of new nevermore album, really got into them recently
I've seen a ton of jeff loomis lessons and it's the camera as others have said, he does use a 1.5mm tortex sharp pick and my experience of the thing is you have to play absolutely perfect as any mistakes are really obvious so I'm guessing his technique is absolutely flawless
Jonathan are there any growler singers you don't mind? the guy in dark tranquillity seems to have a good balance between aggression and clarity of the actual words he sings
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The boys would be proud.....
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Fair enough Jon, I wasnt really having a go at you to begin with, just said the 'do you really have to hum it' thing tongue in cheek, near certain you'd say no.
It does remind me of the time a mate came round to my house before a jaunt round c--kermouth pubs. I was playing some Nile at the time. He said that you should be able to hum music or it wasnt memorable and catchy enough, so I of course had to go round sporadically but enthusiastically humming Nile all day (If only to see who cracked first - the pratt humming 250bpm tech death metal, or the people with him).
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I like a player with a turn of speed, but it is more thrilling when he has been previously been playing at a slower pace (not unlike a sports car accelerating feels like a thrill, whilst driving constantly at 100mph feels little different from driving at 20mph - it's the acceleration /g force change that gives you goosebumps).
Nicely put Jonathan . :)
This clip addresses that point (musically & literally)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFNB0u1-84A
Interesting how some players/styles can polarise opinions. Example - I completely agree with Andy Timmons with his take on Jeff Beck. I've seen him live where the hairs on the back of my neck stood up but where my freind standing next to me thought he was cr@p.
Also had a difference of opinion with MartinW who has even offered to give Jeff some guitar lessons :D
"Obviously he's very gifted, great technical player, innovative, yada yada. So what?
He ignores one of the guitar's key ingredients: attack.
He could make most of those noises on a keyboard with one of those pitch-shift jobbies. Jeff, learn to use a pick again and STEP AWAY FROM THE FRICKING WHAMMY BAR! It's like Zakk and his pinched harmonics.
I'm a big fan of Billy Gibbons, but that doesn't mean I care who he likes as a player. I mean, you couldn't say that BG sounded anything like Beck, so what's the relevance?
Edit: And "great tone"? Are you kidding?"[/i]
Although I get frustrated that other people don't feel the same as me namecalling is pretty useless so please kiss and make up PDT_006
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What stops me listening to an awful lot of really heavy bands is shitee vocalists (grunty growly screechycookie monster types) rather than the onslaught of drums and guitars.
i think the same of a lot of modern metal... of course i'm not talking in general about screams and growls (for a death-black metal fan it would be quite nonsensical!), but the whole deathcore genre (that, unfortunately, is contaminating a lot of nobler scenes...) lives on completely WRONG vocals... a singer must not just scream, he's got to do it in the right way, with interesting metrics (the thing with non-melodic vocals is all about timing and rhythm, like in rap... you can't just scream syncronously with the snare drum, damn!). phonetics are really important too... most young singers just scream the sh!t out of their lungs but emit no other sound that a constant "whooooaaaaahhhh"...
i think that a lot of people is kept away from extreme metal by who does it bad!
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New album!
I'd almost forgotten they make albums; its been so long. Should be great.
Here's an annoyingly short teaser on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh_Oa47uenQ
URGH!
it's a long wait...
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Oh, $%&#ing vocals
Some I like
Some....for $%&# sake
Suffered this the other night. Was listening to all my music on random (which is about 13,000 songs and I dont know what all of it is, so it surprises me sometimes) and this cool riff came on, nice tone, generally banging intro to what was promising to be a quality track of good-ass metal, then some c--kmonger started jabbering cavemanese with the voice of an ewock on crack and it ruins it for me.
It was 'Katakysm, Era of the mercyless' [sic]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92w2Oc48rMc
Yeah, I know, all imo, of course, some people love it, but none of them seem to be in this thread so screw it :P
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It is possible to shred in a very musical and melodic manner. Ask Paganini! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4TlfRtX0sw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4TlfRtX0sw&feature=related)
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Speaking of paganini, I'm rather fond of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98y0Q7nLGWk
And of course origin, who sometimes sound like I imagine paganini might if he were in a really foul mood and had an EMG 81 equiped jackson and a dual rectifier
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yexWOdVbaw
I love the sweeps at the end (and the rest of it, but those especially).
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Speaking of paganini, I'm rather fond of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98y0Q7nLGWk
Breathtaking. Makes pretty much any electric guitar player look a bit silly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yexWOdVbaw
I love the sweeps at the end (and the rest of it, but those especially).
I listened to that all the way through. Probably best to make no comment. Each to their own.... :)
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AAAAAAAGH! i found the worst shredding video EVER!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28abpbNwZlU&feature=related
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Speaking of paganini, I'm rather fond of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98y0Q7nLGWk
Breathtaking. Makes pretty much any electric guitar player look a bit silly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yexWOdVbaw
I love the sweeps at the end (and the rest of it, but those especially).
I listened to that all the way through. Probably best to make no comment. Each to their own.... :)
Yup
And
:lol: Fair enough!
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AAAAAAAGH! i found the worst shredding video EVER!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28abpbNwZlU&feature=related
I dont remember making that!
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AAAAAAAGH! i found the worst shredding video EVER!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28abpbNwZlU&feature=related
that made my hair stand on edge .. holy shite that's horrible
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AAAAAAAGH! i found the worst shredding video EVER!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28abpbNwZlU&feature=related
I dont remember making that!
now go put it in a song! ;)
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What stops me listening to an awful lot of really heavy bands is shiteee vocalists (grunty growly screechycookie monster types) rather than the onslaught of drums and guitars.
i think the same of a lot of modern metal... of course i'm not talking in general about screams and growls (for a death-black metal fan it would be quite nonsensical!), but the whole deathcore genre (that, unfortunately, is contaminating a lot of nobler scenes...) lives on completely WRONG vocals... a singer must not just scream, he's got to do it in the right way, with interesting metrics (the thing with non-melodic vocals is all about timing and rhythm, like in rap... you can't just scream syncronously with the snare drum, damn!). phonetics are really important too... most young singers just scream the sh!t out of their lungs but emit no other sound that a constant "whooooaaaaahhhh"...
i think that a lot of people is kept away from extreme metal by who does it bad!
Our singer just goes at 100% and makes a load of noise www.myspace.com/therabhus - check it out!
As for screamed vocals, the whole Pig Squeal/Water Drain thing does my head in. Annotations of an Autopsy are terrible for this. Good music though.
Paddy
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New album!
I'd almost forgotten they make albums; its been so long. Should be great.
Here's an annoyingly short teaser on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh_Oa47uenQ
URGH!
it's a long wait...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzQam292jog ;)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yexWOdVbaw
I love the sweeps at the end (and the rest of it, but those especially).
I listened to that all the way through. Probably best to make no comment. Each to their own.... :)
Come on Martin - if you click 'more info' you get all the lyrics and it all falls into place ..... not that I needed to :lol: :lol:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yexWOdVbaw
I love the sweeps at the end (and the rest of it, but those especially).
I listened to that all the way through. Probably best to make no comment. Each to their own.... :)
Come on Martin - if you click 'more info' you get all the lyrics and it all falls into place ..... not that I needed to :lol: :lol:
Theres another origin track called The Aftermath, that I named my custom BK after. Awesome tune, ferocious, heavy, well composed, technically stunning but musically cogent and interesting. I read the lyrics for it one day
Huge mistake. I'm glad I've forgotten them.
On that note
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTpQOZcNASw
I dont even mind Fishers vocals; he does what he does very well (some forget that that stuff is as hard as singing well)
But...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-eYIeUPD0s&feature=player_embedded
The lyrics...why?
Maybe the cavemanese is to hide the fact that the lyrics are utterly retarded? I wouldnt have enough confidence in them to clearly enunciate either.
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i think that pretty much all gore lyrics are utterly ridiculous.
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i think that pretty much all gore lyrics are utterly ridiculous.
of course, but originally they were some kind of black humoured joke... and for many they still are. then they became a clichee and some band uses them dead seriously!