Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: tomjackson on May 19, 2010, 10:42:33 AM
-
How important are they on a Les Paul or 335? Do they make any difference?
I've just read that the new Slash Les Paul has a short Tenon and that guitar costs over 2k.
Is it a cost thing or do both types have advantages like set neck and bolt on necks?
-
Ah, this old chestnut :lol:
It's claimed to be a stronger joint and it increases sustain. However, my Teles sustain just as well (if not better) than a lot of Les Pauls I've owned/played.
It's for cork sniffing spec seekers, like correctly placed tailpieces and the right colour of the plastic pickup rings :roll:
Play the guitar and if you like it, don't worry about what type of neck joint it's got...
-
I agree with everything above... its really not worth worrying about a particular aspect of construction if the guitar sounds good. I expect that the resonance of the piece of wood its made out of in the first place will have a far greater impact on sustain and completely mask any short/long tenon 'differences'.
My 2p :)
-
Cool, I'm not particularily fussed myself (My Tokai is short I think) but magazines always go on about it so just wandered.
I know most of the Fender related cork sniffing but not the Gibson ones...
-
Gibson cork sniffing all relates to the mythical "vintage accuracy":
* Plastic colour - pickup rings, pickguards
* Knobs - colour, height, fonts used
* Tailpiece location - on LPs, should be at a slight angle like "bursts"
* Neck tenons - short, medium, long
* PAFs - need I say more?
* Brazilian Rosewood fretboards
* The 'right' nitro-cellulose
* Lacquer checking - doing it with a razor blade or a freezer/heater
* etc
The list goes on :roll:
And remember, anything Murphy aged (or even just painted) commands a huge premium.....
-
I don't know how much it contributes to the actual tone, but I think with a set neck it must be an advantage to have as great a "glued" surface area as possible - just for strength of the joint if nothing else.
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg225/Gibson_Tim/tenonslpfjpeg.jpg)
-
I don't know how much it contributes to the actual tone, but I think with a set neck it must be an advantage to have as great a "glued" surface area as possible - just for strength of the joint if nothing else.
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg225/Gibson_Tim/tenonslpfjpeg.jpg)
Probably! What I find interesting about that pic is that its a little deceptive though... the tenon isn't nearly the full width of the neck so the increase in glued surface area between the transitional join and long join there is probably pretty negligible.
That short join looks particularly horrific! :o
-
Dave didn't you put a load of stuff into your SG to make it more original spec?
-
Dave didn't you put a load of stuff into your SG to make it more original spec?
dave's all about the look ;)
i've seen that pic of phillyq's several times, and it still shocks me - the low contact area on the short tenon.
-
i've seen that pic of phillyq's several times, and it still shocks me - the low contact area on the short tenon.
Apparently it's done like that so they can tweak the neck angle with a minimum of actual precise wooodwork. Presumably the gaps end up filled with glue. :?
-
Dave didn't you put a load of stuff into your SG to make it more original spec?
I did, but as Gwem says it was to make it look right. It's a proper old SG that deserved to look and sound more like it did originally. The parts that were on it were cheap and tone sucking, with the exception of the tuners.
It's the muppets with brand new Gibson R9s that send them in for "makeovers" that are beyond belief. They have the top re-carved, tailpieces altered, truss rods replaced etc. Blummin madness! :shock:
-
philly's pic shows the real issue - how well its fitted
a shor tenon is fine - but the one shown above is not
it was a bad day for gibson when they released those photo's - and quickly withdrew them, but not quick enough. obviously they probably cut up seconds for the pics - but the idea that some with a join done that badly will have made it out the factory is shocking
-
I ALWAYS use a long tenon joint - full width as well
This is why I can shave away the heel of my Lion guitars and have great sustain etc - because of the big surface area that is glued together in the long tenon joint
-
looking at the photo's common sense tells me the long tenon is preferable, and clearly more of a headache to construct.this doesn't mean it must sound better, it's just good to know something is well made;a rarer and rarer
thing thesedays
-
I ALWAYS use a long tenon joint - full width as well
This is why I can shave away the heel of my Lion guitars and have great sustain etc - because of the big surface area that is glued together in the long tenon joint
Good point, I think the full width tenon plays a part, maybe as much or more than the length.
PRS use a full width tenon, I believe. My Epiphone LP Juniors and LP Special have full width tenons too (AFAIK!) and they seem particularly resonant compared with the other LP types I've owned. They do have that annoying "lip" in the treble cutaway to get in the way of your hand though.
-
I ALWAYS use a long tenon joint - full width as well
This is why I can shave away the heel of my Lion guitars and have great sustain etc - because of the big surface area that is glued together in the long tenon joint
Did you post a photos of the neck construction of a Lion once Jonathan, I had a search but couldn't seem to find it.
-
Dave didn't you put a load of stuff into your SG to make it more original spec?
I did, but as Gwem says it was to make it look right. It's a proper old SG that deserved to look and sound more like it did originally. The parts that were on it were cheap and tone sucking, with the exception of the tuners.
It's the muppets with brand new Gibson R9s that send them in for "makeovers" that are beyond belief. They have the top re-carved, tailpieces altered, truss rods replaced etc. Blummin madness! :shock:
I take it you've seen the thread on the LPF where that guy has sent his to that Florian (sp?) guy. Seems insane to me - like I said on that forum, why not just get the guy to make a Les Paul from scratch :?
-
They do have that annoying "lip" in the treble cutaway to get in the way of your hand though.
its not really needed either. full width tenons are much nicer to my ears too.
-
I ALWAYS use a long tenon joint - full width as well
This is why I can shave away the heel of my Lion guitars and have great sustain etc - because of the big surface area that is glued together in the long tenon joint
Did you post a photos of the neck construction of a Lion once Jonathan, I had a search but couldn't seem to find it.
Dont know if I did
I always use a 3 piece neck with the centre splice rotated for strength and avoidance of twisting
I normally use a small volute to strengthen the headstock and reduce risk of breakage
Here is a front view of a long tenon - note the tenon goes right the way to the end of the neck pickup cavity
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/felineguitars/CUSTOM%20BUILT/longtenon.jpg)
Here is a rear view showing the neck construction and the carved heel
It doesn't get any better than this IMO
Along with superior quality of parts and attention to detail, this is our main selling point on the Lion model
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/felineguitars/CUSTOM%20BUILT/longtenonrearview.jpg)
Here is a view when all finished
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/felineguitars/CUSTOM%20BUILT/andymaclionheel.jpg)
-
Thanks, looks great.
If I ever get a proper Les Paul, I think it will be a Lion!
-
Sheesh ................. if they were producing ill fitting joints anything like the 'short' version in the 60's it's not surprising that early SG necks had problems.
-
I ALWAYS use a long tenon joint - full width as well
This is why I can shave away the heel of my Lion guitars and have great sustain etc - because of the big surface area that is glued together in the long tenon joint
In theory I would imagine it'd be pretty straight forward to make a Lion with a bolt on neck right?
-
I ALWAYS use a long tenon joint - full width as well
This is why I can shave away the heel of my Lion guitars and have great sustain etc - because of the big surface area that is glued together in the long tenon joint
In theory I would imagine it'd be pretty straight forward to make a Lion with a bolt on neck right?
WTF!? you'd find it hard to get past jonathan's craftsman pride i imagine!
-
i've seen that pic of phillyq's several times, and it still shocks me - the low contact area on the short tenon.
Just needs a neck plate and four bolts....
-
The great thing about this forum Tom is I've been quite tempted by the Slash sig (although I can't really afford it, but due to the limited run I've been contemplating just sticking it on the card :?) but having read this thread I've been reminded just how awesome Feline Lions are and am now thinking I'll put a bit by towards getting one instead.
-
We have done a bolt on Lion for someone who had specific reasons for wanting one
The heel and neck joint had to be a little different - wasn't the same slick affair that the glued necks are
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/felineguitars/CUSTOM%20BUILT/davidcrimble1.jpg)
Still gobsmackingly pretty though - was a flat front with a strat like arm contour and piezo and MIDI
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/felineguitars/CUSTOM%20BUILT/davidcrimble.jpg)
-
I ALWAYS use a long tenon joint - full width as well
This is why I can shave away the heel of my Lion guitars and have great sustain etc - because of the big surface area that is glued together in the long tenon joint
In theory I would imagine it'd be pretty straight forward to make a Lion with a bolt on neck right?
WTF!? you'd find it hard to get past jonathan's craftsman pride i imagine!
I was just thinking it'd be interesting having a series of necks with varying wood combinations to play with. Aesthetically I still prefer the set neck version though I often daydream of a through neck version, though I imagine there would be little point given the quality of Jonathan's construction. Still I imagine it would have more impact on tone than the inch of wood that separates the long and short neck tenon.
-
I was just thinking it'd be interesting having a series of necks with varying wood combinations to play with.
And then you could have a load of spare bodies to go with the necks. Say 10 of each = 100 combinations. That would even keep Dave happy for a week.
Have 10 modular pickup units (which you could just unscrew and srcrew another one in) and you've got 1000 combinations.
Right.... I'm off to get my crayons out :lol:
-
well, i stand corrected!!
-
well, i stand corrected!!
The bolt on neck isn't a patch on the glued in version
Glued in feels way better