Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: fohl on June 08, 2011, 10:06:29 AM
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Hi guys,
I got no experience with Bare Knuckles and I am looking for some good advice :)
At first place, sorry for my english! I'm not a native speaker ;)
I would like to replace the standard pickup set in a Gibson Les Paul Classic from 2003. The originals are 496R and 500T ceramics as most of you already know. I am playing through a Bogner Uberschall (the old revision without red channel gain compensation)
The 500T is pretty muddy and uninspiring. While basically playing punk and hardcore, I need the balls and tightness but infact there is not much life in the sound.
I would like to add more transients and receive a sound that is more dependent from my right hand.
Infact I need more dynamics!!! I would like to move in a more classical rock direction without loosing the modern attitude. Also a pickup with a little lower or moderate output than the 500T would be perfect because the gain at the Amp's red channel is *f...ing* incredible :lol: But it would be nice to get some more options at this gain poti.
I hope I will also find a solution to make my volume potis on the guitar more versatile by changing the pickups even as well as the overall sound.
I've already replaced the 300k with 500k cts. Without any desired effect... As I read myself into electronics it's quite clear to me why...noob ;)
The neck has so much low end that it is nearly unuseable and differs to much from the bridge :(
I Love mids and edge without to much aggression. So I guess the CS with scooped mids is not what I am looking for.
The Uberschall sounds a bit too cold and too American. I wish I could add some more British character to my sound.
I took a closer look at the Holy Diver and I like the sound samples pretty much! I think this is what could make me damn happy! But I doubt that it will sound like this in a LP especially together with my Bogner. I also like the nailbomb pretty much btw.
I think taming the bogner a bit means to choose a Alnico5 instead of a ceramic. (?)
I've already read about 15 complete posts on the Les Paul topic in this forum and I think you guys know what you're talking about. I am really looking forward to your opinions and suggestions!
I hope I've found the right words and someone can help me outta this Confusion :)
All the Best
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the cold sweat is not bloaty like the 500t, but not really scooped
it has a nice amount of upper mids, and quite punchy bass
the nailbomb has more low and center mids than the cold sweat, but less upper mids
the holy diver is just as amazing, but a whole different animal
I think you would enjoy any model of the contemporary line in a les paul through the uber
even the warpig is quite clear
if you really want to tame the output without losing much edge and mids, try the rebel yell, maybe the emerald
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I would like to add more transients and receive a sound that is more dependent from my right hand.
Infact I need more dynamics!!! I would like to move in a more classical rock direction without loosing the modern attitude. Also a pickup with a little lower or moderate output than the 500T would be perfect because the gain at the Amp's red channel is *f...ing* incredible :lol:
Up to that I was thinking Cold Sweat. But then ...
I Love mids and edge without to much aggression. So I guess the CS with scooped mids is not what I am looking for.
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I took a closer look at the Holy Diver and I like the sound samples pretty much! I think this is what could make me damn happy! But I doubt that it will sound like this in a LP especially together with my Bogner. I also like the nailbomb pretty much btw.
I think taming the bogner a bit means to choose a Alnico5 instead of a ceramic. (?)
The Holydiver is a rather warm sounding pickup with still considerable output. I have played the Ubershall for only a brief period at the Frankfurt Music Fair in 2003 and found that - like the XTC and the Shiva - is still a rather warm sounding amp so it could be too much. The same would apply to the Crawler. The Nailbomb would not really lower the output from the guitar much. I am thinking the Rebel Yell could work well for what you are trying to achieve.
Cheers Stephan
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I don't think you could go wrong with RYs. They're killer in my Firebird and I'm sure they would be awesome in your LP.
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thank you very much guys for taking time on this issue!
Perhaps I shouldn't have told you about the idea of lowering the output from the pickups in first place.
Just to make this clear: This is not the focus! Everything else I described is definetly more important.
I am telling you this because I am a bit afraid of losing too much fatness.
Hm... I started thinking bout the RYs before but I didn't really got it on my list, right because of the fatness story.
For a second let's just forget about the output thing!
Are you still saying: Rebel Yell?
Bridge AND neck?
the neck isn't that important, I just need a pickup that fits to the one on the bridge. If so it would be a improvement...
The Holydiver is a rather warm sounding pickup with still considerable output... I have played the Ubershall for only a brief period at the Frankfurt Music Fair in 2003 and found that ... is still a rather warm sounding amp so it could be too much.
just never put electro harmonics power tubes in it, like I did... *fail* ;) (JJs!)
What do you mean by "warm"? The Uber has much low end if you like. Well I think it's fairly adjustable! Or are you talking bout lower mids? Hm I guess both =)
If I'd pick the nailbomb (I said I liked it because the samples are really cool :)
I would agree immediately but the Holy??? :?
...the holy diver is just as amazing, but a whole different animal...
Can you describe what's the big difference?
Do you, like Stephan, also think it could be too warm for the Uber?
this issue, I carried for to long and now I'm trying to get want I wish for :D
thank you so much again for assistance!
cheers!
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...the holy diver is just as amazing, but a whole different animal...
Can you describe what's the big difference?
Do you, like Stephan, also think it could be too warm for the Uber?
the diver is warm, but fairly aggressive
not a throat ripper like the nailbomb, but it shows some teeth
if you want a modern hard rock tone like new Alice In Chains and Whitesnake, maybe the heaviest Nickelback stuff, then go for it
the Diver is absolutely the best for that stuff
the nailbomb is hotter, more focused and has a much sharper high end
close amount of bass and low mids, less but balanced center mids, a lot less upper mids, despite of what the charts show (lot of treble, not really upper mids)
it's a thick sounding pickup, but not as big and "bumpy" as the heavily middy holy diver
lot more dense and aggressive
the coolest part is that it retains some of the vintage cleanish voicing on the mids (which I usually call "hollow PAF mids"), leaving the aggresion kinda out of this frequency range
the diver, on the other hand, has friendly smooth highs and aggressive 80's mids
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I got a Nailbomb bridge in a LP clone and like it a lot. It's defenitely more than a one trick pony and is way more than just a metal pickup. I find it very useable for hard rock, punk and the likes, but as Eric says it's defenitely a aggressive mother. If you want something in the ballpark of a Nailbomb, but with less aggressivenes I think the Rebel Yell would suit you (based on my knowledged from the forums as I haven't played a Rebel Yell).
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On the RY, which I got in the bridge of a Ibanez S: This is a rock pickup. It is quite trebly, with a tight bass. Cuts through the mix. The beauty lies in the (upper) mids, there is a certain rawness / chainsawness / pure rockness. This Pu has that certain dirt and grit, not in an agressive metal way, more in a high value rock way (think, of course Billy Idol, but also I get a Paul Gilbert a la http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHGv5FCS2j8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHGv5FCS2j8) and other modern-classic rock from it . Striking a powerchord just...well rocks. It can do blues and metal as well, though again, it screams rock to me.
Excuse the overuse of the word rock but that is how I feel^^
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Excuse the overuse of the word rock but that is how I feel^^
I appreciate! cause this is how WE feel
oh man.. you guys make me wanting more guitars ;)
but what did I expect? a clear "you gotta pick up these"???
how naive ;)
big thanx to everybody who replied, be sure all of your thoughts went on!
I think I'll take a sleep and a drink and a sleep (and maybe another drink...) and then decide right from the stomache, you know ;)
I'll let you know what I feel when playing the RY, the NB or the HD
big cheers!
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I would look at VHII's and RY's.
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If you want something in the ballpark of a Nailbomb, but with less aggressivenes I think the Rebel Yell would suit you.
Wouldn't the Rebel be just as aggressive if not more so than the nailbomb. I haven't played either pick up, but that's what I heard. Also, based on the descriptions I heard, I would imagine that the rebel yell would be more edgey and biting.
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thank you very much guys for taking time on this issue!
Perhaps I shouldn't have told you about the idea of lowering the output from the pickups in first place.
Just to make this clear: This is not the focus! Everything else I described is definetly more important.
I am telling you this because I am a bit afraid of losing too much fatness.
For a second let's just forget about the output thing!
Are you still saying: Rebel Yell?
Bridge AND neck?
the neck isn't that important, I just need a pickup that fits to the one on the bridge. If so it would be a improvement...
In that case, Alnico Nailbomb set.
[What do you mean by "warm"? The Uber has much low end if you like. Well I think it's fairly adjustable! Or are you talking bout lower mids? Hm I guess both =)
Yes, both. And my impression was that all Bogners were rather smooth in the high end and had a very singing tone. I must say however that I did not play the Uber loud.
Cheers Stephan
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Wouldn't the Rebel be just as aggressive if not more so than the nailbomb.
I have hard time believing the RY could be *more* aggressive than the NB :lol:
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When I replaced the 500T with the Miracle Man it worked perfectly. The MM isn't "scooped", it just doesn't have the upper midrange hump many higher output pickup has (it has a lot of low mids IMO).
I found it had no problems doing an Iron Maiden sound, but granted it is probably more output & power than you are looking for.
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I Love mids and edge without to much aggression. So I guess the CS with scooped mids is not what I am looking for.
The Uberschall sounds a bit too cold and too American. I wish I could add some more British character to my sound.
I took a closer look at the Holy Diver and I like the sound samples pretty much! I think this is what could make me damn happy! But I doubt that it will sound like this in a LP especially together with my Bogner. I also like the nailbomb pretty much btw.
I think taming the bogner a bit means to choose a Alnico5 instead of a ceramic. (?)
Did you email Bare Knuckle for their official recommendation? That is often the best approach.
I can only talk out of my experience but here are my thoughts.
It is a shame that there is not a modern tone demo of the Rebel Yells because they really handle high gain beautifully well. I have a set in a Les Paul Standard and it makes my Dual Rectifier growl like crazy. It definitely has more of that 'classic rock' / Marshall upper mid character to the tone, something which I love.
The pickups are actually similar to the Burstbucker Pro pickups Gibson Offers but they are
-much MUCH clearer
-neck isn't boomy and the bridge isn't overly thin and bright
-they clean up really well when using the volume knob
-they retain clarity, soul, and complexity even under loads of gain
-The bridge has a complex and growling rhythm tone
-the neck has a chiming clean tone and does low gain stuff well (turn down the volume pot for classic rock and blues)
-neck works well for high gain solos.
-There is a massive and articulate pick attack which makes it really easy to modulate or colour your lead tones with pick attack. The lead tone RULES, even with a Dual Rec.
The output is NOT the same as a ceramic though. They'll do great punk / hardcore tones but you'll most likely have to boost your head to get into modern metal territory. These MAY be what you want but you might find them a bit weak.
just my $0.02
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The pickups are actually similar to the Burstbucker Pro pickups
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbeR6uYxU50
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:lol:
Well, you know. The Burstbucker Pro pickups aren't BAAAAAD but the Rebel Yells eat them for lunch...
...Many times.
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Did you email Bare Knuckle for their official recommendation? That is often the best approach.
Yea this is want I did this morning and already received a first reply.
Ben brought it down: I am torn between two worlds.
I think there are two options:
taking a modern high output humbucker set or hotter vintage ones.
I GUESS with a modern pu set I couldn't achieve a moderate gain sound because of the metal amp with less upper mids/edge to cut through. I am already using a minus boost pedal on the red channel to turn down the output of the 500T by the way. The result is a bit less gain but also less life and transients...
It is a shame that there is not a modern tone demo of the Rebel Yells because they really handle high gain beautifully well. I have a set in a Les Paul Standard and it makes my Dual Rectifier growl like crazy. It definitely has more of that 'classic rock' / Marshall upper mid character to the tone, something which I love.
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The output is NOT the same as a ceramic though. They'll do great punk / hardcore tones but you'll most likely have to boost your head to get into modern metal territory. These MAY be what you want but you might find them a bit weak.
Yea I definetly like to listen how they handle the "modern hi gain" so far...
Second option: A hotter vintage setup would offer this more marshall kinda mids.
These mids are what I am looking for! With the setup I got right now, I can't get those mids (and tone!!! 1-2k...) because there are just not there. I think this situation wouldn't improve with a pu set like the nailbombs. But this is just an impression!
The question is how far will I be able to kick, for example the RYs, into a more punchy and tight sound with fatness playing palmmuted stuff.
I mean... the Uberschall has enough balls, but does it really fit together?
I even got enough pedals, TS and Boosts to crank it up. Temporarily I am using them for pushing the clean into crunshy sounds. Which sounds way better with more flexibility by the way then the red channel! :shock:
Hopefully my last question :)
Is it a bit similar to fish or fowl?
I mean is it about chosing a classical pu set and living with the loss of tight, fat punch or chosing a modern setup with probably too much output, causing less gain and tone flexibility on the uber? :?
The only thing I am pretty sure of is to chose an alnico V.
To resume: I think there are more arguments to pick the rebell yells as most of you guys already recommended.
Thank you so much guys! Really appreciating it :D
This conversation has brought me forward a lot!
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The pickups are actually similar to the Burstbucker Pro pickups
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbeR6uYxU50
*lol* :D
Close to a decision, this is the ranking:
The HDs and RYs are in lead. The nailbomb is nearly outta sight. I got the feeling that in combination with the bogner, they won't deliver these upper mids I can't live without anymore ;)
in suspense of another feedback from the guys from bkp. If they'll telling me cold sweat is the deal I will need some or even more booze *lol* 8)
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The Rebel Yells are TIGHT and the neck pickup really is not boomy. You'll get crazy articulation and super crunchy mids with these pickups. (I'm currently debating between Crawlers and Holy Divers for a Godin LG) Keep in mind that you can adjust the presence of the highs by raising and lowering the screws in the bridge pickup. Gotta properly adjust your pickups...
If you want that sort of punk rock / hardcore high gain tone, the Gibson with Rebel Yells can get it.
Another question: What sort of Cab / Speakers are you running with the Bogner? Cabinetry and Speaker combinations can greatly influence tone.
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... Keep in mind that you can adjust the presence of the highs by raising and lowering the screws in the bridge pickup. Gotta properly adjust your pickups...
do you mean the overall hight of the pickups? yea sure!
or are you talking bout the screws in the pu itself??? :? sorry maybe this is a dumb question!
... What sort of Cab / Speakers are you running with the Bogner? ...
At the moment I am using a VHT fat bottom 4x12 slanted version, which is not really my dream cab.
I think they got Eminence P-50s. The Uber has 120W btw...
If I could afford, I'd get myself a straight mesa rectifier oversized with v30...
I even could blister myself for selling the old Marshall cab with G12H 30. That was the best cab I've ever heard in life and my worst equipment sale ever!
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the oversized recto cab is amazing for recording/mic'ing, but it sounds like ass in person with most amps
way too much bass and mids, and lacking high end
you could mix the vht eminence speakers with something else
the holy diver clips were recorded with a les paul custom, by the way, just like most of the other models
it's plenty of upper mids and not a bassy pickup at all
it's very mid centered with a ton of overall midrange and evenly balanced low and high end
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do you mean the overall hight of the pickups? yea sure!
or are you talking bout the screws in the pu itself??? :? sorry maybe this is a dumb question!
Not at all what I am talking about. The six screws in the pickup can be raised and lowered. The higher they are, the more treble you get. As you lower them the treble lessens. You can raise the overall height of the pickup while lowering the screws and you'll mute the highs and really phatten up the signal.
I even could blister myself for selling the old Marshall cab with G12H 30. That was the best cab I've ever heard in life and my worst equipment sale ever!
DAMN MAN! That Marshall cab probably rocked! Are you in Europe? If so, you should be able to acquire a Marshall cab without spending too much $$$s. My suggestion would be to get a Marshall 1960ax cab (with v30s) and swap two v30s for g12H 30 70th Anniversary speakers. This should give you a much MUCH more punky tone.
the oversized recto cab is amazing for recording/mic'ing, but it sounds like ass in person with most amps
way too much bass and mids, and lacking high end
you could mix the vht eminence speakers with something else
Ya, I didn't like the rectocab much. It gets boomy, syrupy, and it isn't tight. The Stiletto cab is much better IMO. For those in the states, I always say to check out Mills cabs. (Mills Acoustics) They are some of the tightest and hugest sounding cabs available. They are kind of expensive though...
the holy diver clips were recorded with a les paul custom, by the way, just like most of the other models
it's plenty of upper mids and not a bassy pickup at all
it's very mid centered with a ton of overall midrange and evenly balanced low and high end
It sounds like such a great pickup. I prefer the Rebel Yells in my Les Paul Standard but I think the Holy Divers would TEAR as well. I'm seriously considering them for my Godin LG but so far, the crawlers seem like a better option, if only because they will make that guitar so versatile and 'different' from my Lester.
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...The six screws in the pickup can be raised and lowered. The higher they are, the more treble you get. As you lower them the treble lessens. You can raise the overall height of the pickup while lowering the screws and you'll mute the highs and really phatten up the signal.
oh okay I knew about the overall height adjustment possibilities but I wasn't aware that you can do a finetuning with the screws height either! thx! :idea:
DAMN MAN! That Marshall cab probably rocked! Are you in Europe? If so, you should be able to acquire a Marshall cab without spending too much $$$s. My suggestion would be to get a Marshall 1960ax cab (with v30s) and swap two v30s for g12H 30 70th Anniversary speakers. This should give you a much MUCH more punky tone.
yea DAMN is the right word... these older g12h30 were so awesome, full of pure tone and action! powerfull and really smooth, no harsch and infact nothing undesirable or annoying. a goddamn blast!!! I will not get over selling it... for all time... :violin1:
well at least the guy who bought it was the happiest ever ;)
I'm from Germany and yea again: the AX is on my mind either.
The point is that it has 100W while the Uber delivers 120W :/
at high volumes that could be too much...
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Did I type AX? Sorry, I meant Marshall 1960AV. The G12m 25 greenbacks won't be able to handle 120watts. If you swap two v30s for 2 G12H 30s you'll do well.
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haha lol we're talking bout the same cab and are both naming it wrong =)
you are absolutely right! v30 in the AV handle 60W per speaker... just haven't been into this for a few years.
I owned an AX with 4x G12m at the time I played an older 2 channel dual recto. Well it's not a ROCK cab in my opinion... the sound great but I was missing the last punch you know?!
hm at least I think it's important to have a mortised cab (is that the right word for it? correct me if I'm wrong. no native and angus' playing his stunning razors edge live intro in the back =)
perhaps I will get two g12H30 and replace two of these eminence in the vht fat bottom.
great I'm going to buy myself a new humbucker set and even start thinking about new cab options. THANK YOU :)
have a nice weekend all!
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If the cab doesn't sound good I wouldn't waste any money on it. Might as well sell it and just get one you like. You'll save much more money that way in the long run. v30 / g12H 30 mixed in a 4 x 12 would sound sick, I think.