Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => The Dressing Room => Topic started by: richard on December 03, 2011, 04:07:34 PM
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Why is it that so many cyclists think that traffic lights/pedestrian lights and all the other rules of behaviour on the road don't apply to them ? I was waiting to cross with a bunch of other pedestrians, the lights have definitely turned red and a female cyclist chooses to sail straight through narrowly avoiding maiming myself and several other folks. I've seen this happen countless times as well as their other trick of swerving onto the pavement at the last second as though that's okay.
I don't drive or ride a bike and I've experienced some appalling behaviour from motorists but nothing to compare to the breathtaking arrogance of some cyclists. I'm afraid that one day I'll just lose it and kick the bas*ard off their fuc**ng bike.
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Cyclists like that tend to be the minority rather than the majority, at least round here. In cities it may be different I suppose. I don't really ride in towns but have skipped a few reds before - only when I could clearly see it was safe to do so though.
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i'm guessing it's because you can buy a bike and ride it without having to pass a test.
granted a lot of drivers ignore what they learned to pass their tests, but at least it hopefully stops them from doing the really serious stuff.
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You should have been watching the road more carefully then. It may be her fault but if you got hit then you're still a tw@t for not looking.
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You should have been watching the road more carefully then. It may be her fault but if you got hit then you're still a tw@t for not looking.
I'm not usually confrontational but... you're talking a bunch of total sh!t there.
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Of course I was looking as was everyone else present. Just thought that, as she had plenty of distance in which to see that the lights had changed, she might have considered stopping. Not so long ago I nearly got mowed down on the pavement by a cylist who was heading at me from behind at high speed but at least decided to ring their bell. How considerate.
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should of booted her off as she went past or at least played chicken with her. I have a bad habit of doing that with motorcycle couriers road oxford street.
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I had a similar experience today - and despite the cyclist riding the wrong way down a one way street, the arrogant crusty bar-steward cyclist still shouted some expletive at me for not looking where I was going on the road. To be honest, even when the pedestrian is at fault a cyclist should, like any other user of a vehicle that is going at speed, should have the awareness to slow down. Of all road users in London, I think cyclists are the worst and should have to have compulsory accident insurance.
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Cyclists have recently become a problem in my area. My town is sort of a rural area nestled within the Metro-Atlanta area. A really odd situation, but what it amounts to is a bunch of people using our "back roads" for both cycling AND as a traffic cut-through from one busy area to the next. With cyclists loving to group up in numbers for "safety", no shoulders, curvy roads and vehicles going 55mph, it's a dangerous situation. More than once, I've had to slam on the brakes so I don't kill several families in one go. It's not like they don't know what's going on either. They'll have 15 cars backed up behind them and don't care. I'd really love to see some sort of law passed limiting the amount of cyclists per group and perhaps a rule of thumb where if you can see the next group you have to slow down or turn around. It's just a scary situation for everyone and that's why I've attached a small cable to my lawn mower's grass guard that let's me lift it up, spraying clippings from one side of the road to the next. Only hit one group in the sweaty legs so far, but I think I just need to monitor their behavior more to get a good feel for when's my best chance to dissuade them from putting themselves and others in danger.
(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/8579/photo156z.jpg)
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As a pedestrian in the UK, you're 250 times more likely to be killed by a car than by a cyclist (government stats). It's weird that there are a huge number of anti-cyclist threads in internet forums (and daily mail, telegraph etc - maybe Jeremy Clarkson fans?) but no one ever starts discussions like "kill all motorists".
Not that this excuses this cyclist's behaviour, of course
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Wow...
Who would have guessed that you're more likely to be killed when hit by a car?
Duh... :roll:
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There are on average 2 pedestrians killed/year by cyclists in the UK. There are 5 killed by lightning on average, and 15 killed by falling off ladders. So before you kill all cyclists, you'd be better off getting rid of inclement weather (?lightning conducting clothes) and removing all ladders...
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Death isn't the only measure...
If I slapped you round the back of the head with a wet fish every other week as you crossed the road... you would probably grow to hate me.
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There are on average 2 pedestrians killed/year by cyclists in the UK. There are 5 killed by lightning on average, and 15 killed by falling off ladders. So before you kill all cyclists, you'd be better off getting rid of inclement weather (?lightning conducting clothes) and removing all ladders...
Are you Angus Loughran? :)
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Death isn't the only measure...
If I slapped you round the back of the head with a wet fish every other week as you crossed the road... you would probably grow to hate me.
No sure, but my original point was the large number of anti-cycling threads, calling cycling a menace, with no evidence that it is.
There always have been a minority of Brits who feel the need to whinge about the perceived threat of a minority, and now that things like racism are considered a social faux pas, it seems that there has been a switch to other less "well defended" groups. I mean, seriously can you imagine any other thread beginning with "kill all......" that wouldn't get you in some sort of trouble?
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As a pedestrian in the UK, you're 250 times more likely to be killed by a car than by a cyclist (government stats). It's weird that there are a huge number of anti-cyclist threads in internet forums (and daily mail, telegraph etc - maybe Jeremy Clarkson fans?) but no one ever starts discussions like "kill all motorists".
Not that this excuses this cyclist's behaviour, of course
Yeah, but that's a different issue really.
Motorists very rarely drive through red lights - at least if they do, you can bloody well see that they're going to!
Cyclists, on the other hand, do it all the time.
No-one's worried about being killed by these cyclists - at the worst it'd be a minor injury. It's just $%&#ing irritating, that's the point.
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I don't support any killing, even of cyclists. Here in Holland it would ask serious dedication, since there are more cyclists than flies. Btw, they're protected very well by the law. If you as a cardriver hit one, no matter the situation, it's always mainly your fault, even in the dark when they bike without any light.
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It's quite bad in Canary Wharf. In fact, most parts of London I've worked in have these tacit, unwritten cyclist rules of the road. The rules seem to be:
- Traffic lights don't apply as long as you don't hit anyone
- One was systems are purely advisory
- All bets are off if you're a courier
I know that we're generalising about "cyclists" as if they are a single entity, but I've worked in London for more than a decade, and this is what I see. Drivers are @rseholes too, although my experience is that they're less of a danger to me than cyclists. Pedestrians are also a pain. We cross roads where we shouldn't, and generally clog up the system.
I guess cyclists have a certain amount of power, in that they can go relatively quick for London, but they have fewer controls or sanctions that can be placed on them - you can't take a cyclists licence away if he or she persistently jumps lights.
I'm pro cycling, by the way. But I've stepped out into a clear one way street only to be narrowly missed by a cyclist more times than is reasonable.
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But I've stepped out into a clear one way street only to be narrowly missed by a cyclist more times than is reasonable.
I once very nearly got hit by a cyclist on Oxford Street. Crossed to an island in the middle of the road, looked left, started crossing..... and this tosser came charging in from my right, on the wrong side of the road!
I had the same thing happen with a motorbike once. Now that really is out of order.
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Now then Richard sorry you had an unpleasant experience but please dont target all cyclists. I myself have been cycling for years granted not so much now weekends only but never had any experiences regarding pedestrians and I am aware fully of what goes on around me I make sure of that..................the same could be said of car drivers though there have been quite a few occasions I have been nearly wiped out by feckin ignorant car drivers but I wouldnt want to kill all drivers,....................just the barstewards who nearly nailed me, :x .......after all I am a driver myself, but I would like to think of myself as being considerate and careful as I see it from both sides. :D
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Typically I am going to be on the fence-I have been a cyclist over the years and have had many a car pull out in front of me and I have to swerve to avoid them. But I also obey the traffic lights and I try to act in a responsible way by having lights on after dusk and I never ride on pavements.
I have encountered idiot cyclists as a driver and I give them ample room and allow for their irregular behavior. Most are good responsible people but the infuriating morons who ride at night, in dark clothing, without lights on whatever side of the road or pavement they feel like and at high speed only have themselves to blame if they get injured. A few years ago, for example, on a dark and rainy night. I was about to pull out onto the road outside my house and did all the normal things you'd do, check to see if it was clear to do so. I didn't expect an unlit cyclist to come diagonally across the road from the pavement opposite to come by. Luckily a mere glimpse of movement caused me to to stay where I was but it could have been so different. Last year my car was hit by a cyclist at a mini roundabout.He came off his bike and we had police and ambulances there. I felt terrible though looking back it wasn't my fault ( as I had a few witnesses to back this yup, the police were very helpful). Fortunately the cyclist wasn't badly hurt and he and I had a amenable chat and ended up shaking hands and going on our various ways- but I felt awful for ages after and after reading Telerocker's comment, can only be glad that we don't have the same thing here....yet ( I feel and EU directive on its way!).
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i'm a keen cyclist, and you want to kill me?
fu_k off you prick!
most of us ride safely, but it doesn't stop daily attempts on my life from car drivers who can't be bothered to look properly.
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I used to live in a university town. Cyclists just do as they please, basically. When they're alone, they ride the sidewalk. When there's a bunch, they block the road. Right of way, traffic lights? Doesn't apply to them.
Yes, it's a sweeping generalisation. But it's the bad apples one notices...
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Better traffic infrastructure would be a first step towards improving matters, not just concerning cyclists but concerning all road users. That, and a little less entitlement by all...
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I think you can find bad examples of all types of road users if you look around. My particular hate is "white van man". A couple of years ago one hit the back of my wife's car and wrote it off while she was waiting at a roundabout to join the traffic - he was using his mobile phone at the time. I have seen many more examples of bad driving from white vans than cyclists.
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Part of the problem is that motorists, and people like Clarkson who speak for motorists, are often tw@ts to cyclists and as a result cycling has become a politicised activity for some people (witness Reclaim the Streets, etc). Trouble is, a few cyclists (but a large enough number to be noticed by those of us that prefer to go by foot) seem to think that they can act a) against the highway code with impunity and then blame it on car drivers or pedestrians and b) that they can behave like motorists behave to them.
Even if the pedestrian is at fault, it is a fact of life that a pedestrian will misjudge the road, or not see what is coming clearly (because a car, bus, whatever, is in the way). A bike is a vehicle, like a car or a bus or a motorbike - as such the cyclist needs to be in control of that vehicle and that means NOT SPEEDING UP or SHOUTING ABUSE when a pedestrian has misjudged the road or hasn't seen you.
No - cyclists should not be killed - but (it being a Sunday) we should all treat each other as we want to be treated ourselves.
Added to that a few arrests and prosecutions for dangerous driving or whatever may weed out the tossers from the rest.
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I've a BIG problem with brazilians lorry-drivers... Imagine you get a four track road with lorry on all four track.... Imagine now that it's a track to go over a montain and they are 30km/h all and you're 100km/h...
And they don't look at the mirror before changing tracks... countless time that I almost entered in a lorry's back...
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Taxi drivers can be terrible as well. I've seen more than a few stare up at the roof of their car as they shoot through red lights as if to pretend that they didn't see the lights had changed. Brilliant tactic - doubles the chance of killing a pedestrian or two.
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I've a BIG problem with brazilians lorry-drivers... Imagine you get a four track road with lorry on all four track.... Imagine now that it's a track to go over a montain and they are 30km/h all and you're 100km/h...
And they don't look at the mirror before changing tracks... countless time that I almost entered in a lorry's back...
+1 Completely agree with you there Fernando - that is probably my second biggest hate!
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Here in Denmark, the same rule applies to cyclists as to car drivers. The police is just quite bad to uphold them. Copenhagen's a $%&#ing dystopia to drive around in a car. The cyclists are extremely respectless. no wonder that alot of them die to right turning trucks
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I've had several accidents while on my bike in Oxford, about half of them my own fault, involving only me and the road - I've always been extremely careful when around traffic or pedestrians, and I NEVER go through red lights or ride on the pavement (except where it's also a cycle path).
The nastiest accidents I've had have been caused by other cyclists: one woman who I was overtaking decided to ride into the middle of the road without warning, without looking and without signalling. She was about 300 yards from the junction that I presume she intended to turn right at, and travelling at less than 10 miles an hour. I had no chance (and luckily for her I wasn't the bus that was 100yd behind me, otherwise she'd have been dead outright).
The second accident was when a cretin was cycling on the pavement, I was on the road. He decided to pull out onto the road (again, no warning, looking, signalling, and not in an obvious place, either). Again I had no chance. I broke my wrist on that occasion and how have a 2 inch screw through my scaphoid. I also had massive bruiding on my leg where I'd been run over by a car as a result of the crash. I wish I'd have taken the cyclist's details down: though I am hugely against person injury claims on the whole, where they have been caused by wrecklessness and result from someone's abject stupidity, there may be a place. I consider myself lucky to be alive after that one, and have rarely cycled since (now I commute a very long way as I have a new job so don't need to cycle to work).
While the most idiotic behaviour I've seen has arguably come from cyclists, I have also seen some very considerate and good cyclists about. Likewise for cars (and I cover a lot of miles, I see a LOT of cretins on the road, particularly middle lane drivers who reduce 3 or 4-lane motorways to 2-lane motorways... thanks, idiots).
As with all things in life, there are good and bad examples. Don't hate all cyclists because many are cretins. Just hate the cretins.
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I cycle and drive so If I'm driving past a bike I always give the bike plenty of room and when I'm on my bike I don't go through red lights and try to at least get somewhere close to the highway code rules. I remember riding home from work one day, minding my own business and a car had to wait behind me for 20 seconds or so. When it past the female driver and her kid who was about 6 were both giving me the w**ker sign. You can tell that lots of drivers hate cyclists as some purposefully get as close to you as possible or in crawling traffic come as close in to the left as possible so you can't pass. Becuase of this attitude by some drivers you end up having to be more agressive as a cyclist just as a measure of self preservation.
But with regards to pedestrians I don't have much trouble when cycling. Don't ride on the pavement and stop at crossings, it's pretty easy. But I do get somef tuts when out on my mountain bike. I don't go down footpaths but when on bridalways walkers often scowl as you go past, even though you have slowed down and been courteous.
The thing that really gets on my nerves when driving though is cyclists riding 2 wide on busy roads, holding up all the traffic. That should be a criminal offence!
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A cyclist friend of mine told me the reason he sometimes runs red lights is simply to get ahead of the cars and buses so as not to get too badly caught up in traffic.
Obvious really, but I hadn't thought of it (I'm not brave enough to cycle on London roads!!). And not a problem provided there are no pedestrians trying to cross the road at the same time!
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The thing that really gets on my nerves when driving though is cyclists riding 2 wide on busy roads, holding up all the traffic. That should be a criminal offence!
+1
The other thing that really gets my goat is when cyclists use the main road when there is a cycle path running alongside it! This happens often in Reading on the A33 relief road that links up to the M4. There is a very very wide cycle path that runs alongside the entire stretch of road (probably 3 or 4 miles) but cyclists insist on using the road and as a result clog up the traffic.
This is the only time that I will tut at cyclists (although I don't give the w&nker sign)
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A cyclist friend of mine told me the reason he sometimes runs red lights is simply to get ahead of the cars and buses so as not to get too badly caught up in traffic.
I bet that he listen to music while he rides too.
What a bad excuse. What about the cars from the other direction. If he gets distracted just once, then he's going to be hit by a car riding 50 km/h.
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I don't support any killing, even of cyclists. Here in Holland it would ask serious dedication, since there are more cyclists than flies. Btw, they're protected very well by the law. If you as a cardriver hit one, no matter the situation, it's always mainly your fault, even in the dark when they bike without any light.
And that gives them the 'I can do whetever the f*ck I want' attitude.
It should be the other way around.
Same for dangerous driving motorists. Take out the airbags and seat belts and put a big, sharp metal spike on the steering wheel.
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Bad cyclists are a menace, and make us decent ones who know and apply the law look like c--ks too.
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I definitely wouldn't say "kill them all", but I do think it should be made legal (or even compulsory) for pedestrians to knock a cyclist off his/her bike if he/she is riding on the pavement. A well-placed walking stick in the back wheel should do it.
On the rude and thoughtless cyclists, though... well, there's rude and thoughtless drivers as well, and rude and thoughtless pedestrians for that matter.
And there's definitely rude and thoughtless planners. What fekwit puts a cycle-way through a pedsetrian area in such a way that three different cyclists can think that three different parts of the area are now their exclusive "right-of-way" and everyone else should get lost? Come tw@t-hour (rush hour for cyclists) there is not one single piece of ground a pedestrian can walk on without being scowled at, shouted at, or deliberately "buzzed" (cycled at and then swerved round at the last minute) by a cyclist.
No, I don't say "kill 'em all...", but I'm very much afraid that I would probably stand by and watch without making any effort to intervene if someone decided to give it a go.
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On the rude and thoughtless cyclists, though... well, there's rude and thoughtless drivers as well, and rude and thoughtless pedestrians for that matter.
+1
What annoys me is that when i'm driving i seem to be watching out for pedestrians, and when i'm a pedestrian i seem to be watching out for the drivers and cyclists (i don't cycle, too dangerous :lol: ).
Still, i guess it's worth it if it means i avoid being in an accident. but it's very tiring :lol: EDIT: not saying i'm an amazing driver or anything, or that i've never done anything stupid, but at least i'm on the watchout, kind of thing.
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Can't we all just learn to live together in peace and harmony?
Except for the lorry drivers of course.................don't get me started on the one that nearly rammed me off the road today. :?
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I was very angry when I started this thread having had yet another narrow escape from the Gods on Two Wheels who can do No Wrong. Obviously, I don't really want to kill them all. Maybe just lop off two or three limbs so they'll be more careful in future.
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Lorry drivers and white van men, they can definitely f uck off :lol:
Speaking of limbless cyclists, when I was in Canada I saw a one-legged road rider a few times. He was a beast, still really fast.
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Slightly off topic, transport/road safety common sense relative....
Bus drivers and Taxi drivers, seem to have thier own version of 'The Highway Code'.
In particular when pulling out from a 'parked/loading-unloading position', their code must read :
"Indicate but don't look" or "Signal, Manoever, and Mirror if you like".... :shock:
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Lorry drivers and white van men, they can definitely f uck off :lol:
Indeed they can. I was trying to leave work today (in my car) when a lovely white van man decided it would be funny to block me in. The traffic light had gone red about 20 metres in front of him and rather than wave me through to the lane on the other side of him (it was obvious that was where I was going due to my indicators and road position) he slowly pulled up so that I couldn't get past.
Him and his neanderthal tw@t of a mate obviously thought it was funny and I reckon they were looking for a reaction from me so they had justification to get angry about something. Cretins.
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I fall into a few road using categories. Motor Bike rider, Car Driver, Lorry Driver & sometimes Cyclist. I can see these arguments from different view points. Everyone has the right to use the road providing they do so in a safe manner ect. When I've been on a Motor Bike, Car drivers can be a nightmare, as can Peds, in Central London, when I worked as a Dispatch Rider, they tend step off the pavement without looking or are aware what they're doing but don't give a shite anyway. In a Lorry in London, you need eyes in the back of your head. I give Cyclists, Motor Bikes all the room they need and don't get right up behind them as this is intimidating. 9 times out of 10 a Cyclist will give you a wave for giving them time/room. Sometimes though all my good intentions can get flung back at you. In Summer when Cyclists are in high numbers in London, turning left in a Lorry can be very testing. I've had indicators on well before junctions and they still undertake you despite campaigns aimed at Lorry drivers to take extra care to look out for them. I've even been given the finger been told to $%&# off ect. So I use the air horns as I'm turning in short bursts to basically stop them from going under the wheels, but they don't like it. I don't think they understand how much room a Lorry needs to make a turn. You need to take them wide so your arse end doesn't mount the kerb and run people over on the pavement or run parked cars over but Cyclists will nip up the inside of your Lorry. I wouldn't dream of doing that on my bike. A lot of car drivers treat Cyclists badly. I've not had any problems but i did on my Motorbike and have plenty of scars to prove it. My brother Cycles everywhere and he had a bloke confront him over him thinking he was getting in his way. When he Squared up to him the car driver shat himself and drove off with a flea in his ear and his tail between his legs.
There's good and bad in all road users.
What can you do eh!
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So in an act of massive altruism we've gone from kill all cyclists to simply dismembering them. Richard you know what your name is c--kney rhyming slang for, pretty apt here I say. Yes I'm a cyclist and have been for 31 years without colliding with any pedestrians. I, like gwem, take offence to this bigoted thread.
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Choucarse - for God's sake lighten up. Do you really think I'm serious about killing and mutilating people ? Can't you detect even a faint trace of humour in this thread ? You, like Gwem, seem to typify the sort of cyclists I've been talking about. Sanctimonious, pompous, self-righteous bores with their heads shoved up their own bums. Or each others.
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Everyones had a sense of humour bypass! Look what happened last week with Clarkson and the strikers.
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Taxi drivers can be terrible as well. I've seen more than a few stare up at the roof of their car as they shoot through red lights as if to pretend that they didn't see the lights had changed. Brilliant tactic - doubles the chance of killing a pedestrian or two.
I once had a taxi driver fall asleep at the wheel and drive onto the pavement, his tip got severly reduced.
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Richard examine what you and others said here. If I were to launch some unwarranted vitriol against a specific group to which you belonged I'd expect you to be offended. Perhaps you could improve your sense of humour when appraising the world at large. And thanks for calling me (and gwem) "Sanctimonious, pompous, self-righteous bores with their heads shoved up their own bums. Or each others."
Have you ever considered a career as a diplomat?
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WTF happened to this place? Is it the pussy forum now? :lol:
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Choucarse - for God's sake lighten up. Do you really think I'm serious about killing and mutilating people ? Can't you detect even a faint trace of humour in this thread ? You, like Gwem, seem to typify the sort of cyclists I've been talking about. Sanctimonious, pompous, self-righteous bores with their heads shoved up their own bums. Or each others.
yep, thats me isn't it.
actually try cycling in London from Angel to Paddington past Kings Cross in rush hour, in the rain, and then we can continue this discussion.
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WTF happened to this place? Is it the pussy forum now? :lol:
If someone starts a flame thread and the "flamees" respond does that make them pussies?
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If someone starts a flame thread and the "flamees" respond does that make them pussies?
:? What makes you think it's a "flame thread"? Ignore the provocative thread title, go back and look at the original post:
Why is it that so many cyclists think that traffic lights/pedestrian lights and all the other rules of behaviour on the road don't apply to them ? I was waiting to cross with a bunch of other pedestrians, the lights have definitely turned red and a female cyclist chooses to sail straight through narrowly avoiding maiming myself and several other folks. I've seen this happen countless times as well as their other trick of swerving onto the pavement at the last second as though that's okay.
That's not flaming, it's absolutely true. I see similar incidents almost every day. Aren't cyclists supposed to stop at red lights?
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They should stop at red lights
But we also shouldn't insult each other beyond the normal very wide parameters of banter
ummm... does anyone fancy talking about pickups?
I'm going to buy some Stormy Mondays.
Probably un-potted but maybe potted, depends what suits an ebony board Les Paul
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Why is it that so many cyclists think that traffic lights/pedestrian lights and all the other rules of behaviour on the road don't apply to them ? I was waiting to cross with a bunch of other pedestrians, the lights have definitely turned red and a female cyclist chooses to sail straight through narrowly avoiding maiming myself and several other folks. I've seen this happen countless times as well as their other trick of swerving onto the pavement at the last second as though that's okay.
That's not flaming, it's absolutely true. I see similar incidents almost every day. Aren't cyclists supposed to stop at red lights?
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that is true philly, and no one can deny that. but the fact is cycling in certain parts of London is dangerous, and a number of us have died, luckily no one I know, but I have had some good friends of mine been seriously injured, and I don't think there can be much joking with that sort of thing. you just have to look for the ghost bikes tied up at junctions.
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OK, then let's change the thread title to "Cyclists - they can be annoying".
I still think the original point was a valid one, and the fact that cyclists get killed on the road doesn't invalidate it. Pedestrians get killed too, so do motorists and so do motorcyclists. That doesn't make it too sensitive a subject to talk about.
It was actually a completely reasonable discussion until people started trading insults.
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OK, then let's change the thread title to "Cyclists - they can be annoying".
I still think the original point was a valid one, and the fact that cyclists get killed on the road doesn't invalidate it. Pedestrians get killed too, so do motorists and so do motorcyclists. That doesn't make it too sensitive a subject to talk about.
It was actually a completely reasonable discussion until people started trading insults.
I'll take that Philly.. But I do think there are a number of people on the road who really would like to kill all cyclists in a serious non-banter kind of way
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Motorists very rarely drive through red lights - at least if they do, you can bloody well see that they're going to!
"Cyclists, on the other hand, do it all the time."
In fact some cyclists do it a lot of the time, personally I don't nor do the majority of cyclists. So was that a reasonable part of this discussion?
This thread has presented cyclists in such a bad light that, although I tried to stay out of it, I felt compelled to respond in the end.
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Slightly off topic, transport/road safety common sense relative....
Bus drivers and Taxi drivers, seem to have thier own version of 'The Highway Code'.
In particular when pulling out from a 'parked/loading-unloading position', their code must read :
"Indicate but don't look" or "Signal, Manoever, and Mirror if you like".... :shock:
to be fair, i think buses have right of way. i.e. you're meant to let them out.
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Motorists very rarely drive through red lights - at least if they do, you can bloody well see that they're going to!
"Cyclists, on the other hand, do it all the time."
In fact some cyclists do it a lot of the time, personally I don't nor do the majority of cyclists. So was that a reasonable part of this discussion?
Yes, it was reasonable because it's true.
I said "cyclists". I didn't say "all cyclists", or "the majority of cyclists", or even "23% of cyclists". I said "cyclists".
As I said, I see this happen almost every day. It could be 365 different cyclists, it could be the same $%&#ing tw@t 365 times, I don't know and I don't care. I just wish they'd stop doing it.
I'm talking about busy London roads where, as a pedestrian, you only have a few seconds to cross at a red light. Why should that opportunity be disrupted by someone on a bike charging through at 30mph? And I repeat, aren't they supposed to stop at a red light?
I can understand you being upset by the thread title, but you're overreacting to perfectly reasonable points.
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Me too Philly.
I have seen many cyclists stop at the red lights but also many completely ignore whatever colour the light is and happily cycle along. I witnessed a cyclist today who saw a red light, mounted the pavement and then got back onto the road after he had gone past the red light. Not good.
I don't have anything against cyclists at all other than they should really respect the rules of the road. Whenever I am out in the car I always make room for them and won't sit behind them revving my engine when I can't get past.
For the record I don't live in London and choose to avoid it whenever I can so can't really comment about the cycling situation there. If it is as dangerous as people are saying it is (and I have no reason to disbelieve them) then perhaps there should be some form of cyclist uprising to do something about their safety (or lack of). I see it as black and white though in that it doesn't excuse going through a red light etc.
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So in the statement "Motorists very rarely drive through red lights" are you referring to "all motorists", "the majority of motorists", or even "23% of motorists?
This is what I call a reasonable discussion.
I addition someone else said something far more insulting to the OP than me earlier in the thread with no response from the contributors. My eventual post receives flak. Once again is this reasonable?
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So in the statement "Motorists very rarely drive through red lights" are you referring to "all motorists", "the majority of motorists", or even "23% of motorists?
This is what I call a reasonable discussion.
Oh come on.
Many motorists run red lights, just after they've changed from amber. Motorists in this country never completely ignore red lights - as if they don't even apply to them - and just cruise through 15 seconds after the light has changed, as people are crossing the road. But some (SOME!!!) cyclists do exactly that.
I don't know the percentages and neither do you, but it's more cyclists than it is motorists, you bloody well know that it happens, and it happens frequently. Stop denying facts.
:|
Look, I don't know what I've said to upset you so much. Mate.
I'm talking about situations where a pedestrian - maybe me - is trying to cross a road, the big round light is red and the little man is green. A cyclist - NOT YOU - chooses to ignore said red light and obstruct the path of said pedestrian in a potentially dangerous manner. Doesn't the pedestrian have every right to be annoyed?
How exactly am I in the wrong here?
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For the record I don't live in London and choose to avoid it whenever I can so can't really comment about the cycling situation there. If it is as dangerous as people are saying it is (and I have no reason to disbelieve them) then perhaps there should be some form of cyclist uprising to do something about their safety (or lack of). I see it as black and white though in that it doesn't excuse going through a red light etc.
theres something called 'Critical Mass' each month which is effectively a kind of cyclist uprising. i went on it once and had fun, but the one i went on was kind of ruined by the actions of a few.
I do think that some cyclists do factor the danger of cycling, with the positive ecological aspect of cycling, and the fact it uses energy to speed up again after stopping to justify the fact they run reds, or jump up on to pavements etc. Clearly thats wrong, on the other hand, I have to do an emergency stop more than once a day to avoid a serious incident with a car, bus etc after they made some sort of bad move.
Cycling in London gets better every year, but death or serious injury still faces us everyday
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I addition someone else said something far more insulting to the OP than me earlier in the thread with no response from the contributors. My eventual post receives flak. Once again is this reasonable?
It was actually a completely reasonable discussion until people started trading insults.
I said until "people" started trading insults. It was a non partisan statement.
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I don't know the percentages and neither do you, but it's more cyclists than it is motorists, you bloody well know that it happens, and it happens frequently. Stop denying facts.
Its not my bit of the discussion here i know, but I think your right Philly.
I also think that more pedestrians jump reds than cyclists.
Maybe its partly a question of accountability, no license etc etc
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Well it must be down to semantics. Anyway as someone who has had 2 major operations as a result of bad driving (I didn't see you on the bike) by others whilst having a clean record in cycling, you have to understand a certain sensitivity on my part concerning one of our national pastimes of slag off the cyclist. I reckon I have a genuine case for a kill all motorists thread. Except I don't have, the ones that got me I do not try to pass off as in any way typical.
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Maybe its partly a question of accountability, no license etc etc
Definitely. And a perceived lack of destructive ability.
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Actually, I was unaware that a pedestrian, not being a person in charge of a vehicle, could 'jump' a red light or had a legal obligation to observe traffic lights (as opposed to considerations of prudence). I always understood that jay walking was an offence in some US states but had no legal meaning in the UK. Better go and read up on my highway code...
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I understand that cyclists suffer badly at the hands of some motorists but I think a lot of the poor behaviour of some cyclists is a direct reaction to this. You don't often see a car going the wrong way down a one way street but cyclists do it all the time. Similarly the habit of mounting the pavement at random moments. It seems to be them saying to car drivers ' Here's something you can't do nur, nur, nur '. Unfortunately it's pedestrians that get caught in the crossfire.
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In the last ten years, just over 7,600 pedestrian were killed by motor vehicles while 29 were killed by cyclists. Over the same period, 364,000 pedestrians were injured by motor vehicles, almost 76,000 (or 21%) of them seriously while cyclists injured just over 2,600 with roughly the same proportion (22%) being considered serious.
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In the last ten years, just over 7,600 pedestrian were killed by motor vehicles while 29 were killed by cyclists. Over the same period, 364,000 pedestrians were injured by motor vehicles, almost 76,000 (or 21%) of them seriously while cyclists injured just over 2,600 with roughly the same proportion (22%) being considered serious.
I'd like to know how those numbers correlate to the total number of vehicles/bicycles, but it's still a bicycle. Not as much weight/speed there and much less fun to operate while drunk. Can you get in trouble with the law for cycling drunk?
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Yes. And with no licence to lose, you can get fined into oblivion.
You can get stopped for speeding on one, too, which was news to me (who wasn't actually breaking the limit, just getting close enough that a cop felt the need to warn me).
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I suppose those stats make it perfectly justifiable for cyclists to go through red lights. :roll:
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No I quoted them for perspective. As for numbers it is believed to be 4 or 5 million regular cyclists.
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Sure - maybe I'm misreading what you intended by it. Personally I don't think you can compare these stats equally. If you are hit by a car you are far more likely to either die or have a serious injury than if you were hit by a bike.
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Yes. And with no licence to lose, you can get fined into oblivion.
You can get stopped for speeding on one, too, which was news to me (who wasn't actually breaking the limit, just getting close enough that a cop felt the need to warn me).
There is no law to stop you exceeding a speed limit on a bike, per se, as there is no requirement for you to have something that measures speed on it. There is, however, a law governing riding without due care and attention, and it's that which you'd be having to contest if you were stopped for 'speeding'.
I think the technicality about speeding is that it's not motorised, and therefore not subject to speed limits, only what can be demonstrated to be 'unsafe'.
That's obviously a pretty grey area: if you're going 40 downhill in a 30, I think many policemen would stop you arguing that it's too fast and you're likely to badly injure or kill yourself in the event of an accident. I don't know what the courts would say to that, though.
And yes, being drunk in charge of a bicycle is also an offense.
Roo
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Sure - maybe I'm misreading what you intended by it. Personally I don't think you can compare these stats equally. If you are hit by a car you are far more likely to either die or have a serious injury than if you were hit by a bike.
Surely thats the point though? A car jumping a red light is going to have much more serious consequences than a bike doing the same thing. Cyclists annoy people, motorists kill people.
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Well, my comment was meant in the context of the original post. I don't doubt that a car jumping a red light will have more serious consequences if it hits a pedestrian. The original post was about bikes 'jumping' red lights frequently - cars, in my experience, do it far less frequently.
I appreciate that this thread could go on and on with many different opinions and arguments - something which I am keen to avoid. My opinions aren't intended to annoy - I just see a different perspective as I'm not really a cyclist and believe that you simply can't compare those sets of stats.
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Yes, but the original post could be summed up as "man not hit by bicycle, gets annoyed". The stats are important, because the whole point he was annoyed was the perception of danger. The stats show that this is misplaced, and that he should vent his frustration in a more sensible direction. It's just that people who worship Clarkson increasingly see cyclists as fair game to have a go at.
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I disagree. I'm not even sorry about it!
I could argue that the use of the stats is also misplaced but I'm not even going to go to the hassle of explaining my opinion, I'm happy with it :lol:
Clearly I'm a Clarkson fan-boy.
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' man not hit by bicycle, gets annoyed '.
As the original poster I agree that this could sum up the experience I had just gone through. No, I wasn't hurt but that was absolutely no thanks to the cyclist who definitely would have hit me if I hadn't jumped out of the way. I've never been bit by either a car or a bicycle but have experienced a number of near misses of which the vast majority have involved cyclists.
I would say that in the last year I can recall 4 incidents of narrowly avoiding being mown down by cyclists (twice on the pavement) and none involving cars. I have also experienced courteous behaviour from motorists on countless occasions and absolutely none from cyclists. I have on 2 occasions in the last year experienced screaming rages and foaming-at-the-mouth abuse from cyclists when I have inadvertently walked in a cycle lane. I'm not a Clarkson fan, and I don't drive.
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Many of us who have expressed concerns at the growing number (admittedly albeit a minority) of cyclist incidents hate Clarkson with a passion. We also all seem to come from London.
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Yes, but the original post could be summed up as "man not hit by bicycle, gets annoyed". The stats are important, because the whole point he was annoyed was the perception of danger. The stats show that this is misplaced, and that he should vent his frustration in a more sensible direction. It's just that people who worship Clarkson increasingly see cyclists as fair game to have a go at.
Clarkson is nothing to do with what we're discussing.
And I don't think it's the perception of danger - although people could get hurt in an actual collision. It's just annoying that (a minority of, yadda yadda) cyclists keep doing this.
And it does happen all the time. On the way to work, I have to cross a busy junction on Holborn in central London. Yesterday, a cyclist went through a red light as people were crossing. Today, a cyclist came up the wrong side of the road, rode through a group of pedestrians on the pavement and then through a red light. That's just in the two minutes a day I'm passing that junction.
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Yes, but the original post could be summed up as "man not hit by bicycle, gets annoyed". The stats are important, because the whole point he was annoyed was the perception of danger. The stats show that this is misplaced, and that he should vent his frustration in a more sensible direction. It's just that people who worship Clarkson increasingly see cyclists as fair game to have a go at.
i completely disagree with killing all cyclists, and clarkson is an idiot, but that's ridiculous. according to your logic, if you're not killed you have no reason to be annoyed.
which is ridiculous. are we not allowed to be annoyed by things which clearly are dangerous, but by sheer fluke don't cause injuries or deaths?
fwiw i see drivers doing something stupid almost every time i go out to drive. i'm definitely not saying that all drivers are awesome and all cyclists are dangerous.
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I'm not on either side being both a motorist and a cyclist. And really we're pretty much all cyclists or have been at sometime, you don't have to cycle in rush hour London and not hold a driving licence to qualify as a cyclist.
But with regards to red lights motorists pretty much always stop becuase If they don't then they will probably get in trouble. You have a registered vehicle that is insured and accountable and with that comes responsibility.
Okay, there are bad drivers but there are a lot more bad cyclists as a percentage of the total.
Yes it's worse if you get hit by a car but at least you expect cars on the road. You don't expect bikes on the pavement or on pedestrianised areas but you still have to dodge them.
Basically I think if cycling on the road you should have to pass a cycling proficiency test and have proof that you have done so. Oh and basic insurance, all those stats say to me is there's too many accidents with uninsured cyclists.
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Basically I think if cycling on the road you should have to pass a cycling proficiency test and have proof that you have done so.
I would wholeheartedly agree with this if it was at all enforceable.
At the very least, in the event of any form of accident if the cyclist had to show their 'proof of proficiency', that might be something...
I'm not convinced it's something that would or could be paid for in the short-term, though. We're lumbered with being surrounded by idiots, I'm afraid :(
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i dunno regarding the proficiency test...
on the one hand it might help... on the other i don't have it, and while i don't cycle, it's nice to know that if i ever took it up again, i didn't have to start into learning to pass a test!
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I think I'm just gonna get me one of these.
(http://stangplanet.com/forum/attachments/pony-press/2410d1228423337-sale-2005-mustang-gt-prop-car-used-death-race-death_race_ford_mustang_4.jpg)
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http://youtu.be/WwdzfL32vig (http://youtu.be/WwdzfL32vig)
That's the way, aha aha, i like it...
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I thought it might be funny when I saw the video title, but that was horrible.
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I thought it might be funny when I saw the video title, but that was horrible.
It is pretty horrible even if you're not partial to bicyclists... and it'd be funny if the car had a snow plow attached to the front
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People getting run over/possibly seriously injured or killed is funny? Ok then..
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I'm unsurprised but disappointed as always at the morons commenting on that youtube video. Anyone at all that thinks it's funny is a prick.
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At best that is in extremely bad taste. There isn't anything remotely funny about it.
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I must admit, every time I get an email saying someone has posted to this thread, I do feel uncomfortable seeing the thread title. :|
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And another biker flick... definitely not for the faint of heart and even more violent than that "Car plowing through" video
http://youtu.be/CwexQZdrFmM (http://youtu.be/CwexQZdrFmM)
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Is your intention to be amusing?
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Is your intention to be amusing?
Just trying to find those guys who complain but still can't resist to take a peek
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I'm unsurprised but disappointed as always at the morons commenting on that youtube video. Anyone at all that thinks it's funny is a prick.
Agreed, I'd easily kill the SOAB on the Golf... Slowly and painfully...
No, I don't think any kind of justice-punishment would take away with what he did... He might be taken off the society and I don't think that people had to pay for him be keep alive in a jail...
That is not politicaly correct in any way, but I can't stand this kind of sh!t....
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There's a whole heap of poor taste going on here.
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Is there any chance this video is a fake and the poster is on a wind up.
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poor taste and sanctimonious cr@p as well - makes for a nice jolly read.
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Is your intention to be amusing?
Just trying to find those guys who complain but still can't resist to take a peek
:?
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The video is legit and taste is really on the bad side...
Thank god nobody died, but if anyone would have been seriously injured the ambulance car would've been obstructed by a bunch of critical mass bikers.
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Here we go again. On my way to work this morning I have to wait at a very busy dual carriageway. The pedestrian lights turn red, the motorists slow to a halt but the small group of pedestrians doesn't cross. We stand fidgeting nervously because a new, ominous factor has entered the scene - a cyclist.
Or rather two cyclists, who in the brief glimpse I had of them, appeared to be a father and son team. Dad looks to be in his thirties and sonny about seven or eight. We hesitate - are they going to stop ? It's perfectly clear that they should but, no, dad sails through the red light followed by his pride and joy.
Perhaps one day when junior gets torn to pieces by an irate group of walkers whose collective patience has finally reached it's limits or he is pulverised into strawberry jam by some blameless motorist he'll think back and thank Daddy for showing him how big people ride bikes in the real world.
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Well - Yesterday I saw one of our two wheeled friends being arrested for insisting on riding his bike at speed on the pavement down Regent Street on the busiest shopping day of the year. His expletives to pedestrians before being brought down (literally) by a couple of cops turned to the usual 'victim cyclist' whine when they took him the side of the street to interview him. Tosser!
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I wonder how the demographics of cyclists are responsible for their behaviour as a group? I expect much of the worst behaviour from cyclists comes from teenagers. It's well known that 17-21 year old males are the most likely to crash cars, so it makes sense that if you gave them the opportunity, 13-16 year olds would crash even more.
Except 13-16 year olds don't have cars, they have bikes instead. At that age most people's risk-reward brain circuitry is all out of kilter, they're selfish and tend not to consider others so much. That could certainly translate to reckless cycling.
It would be interesting to know the age of some of the cyclists in these horror stories.
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That's a good point plastercaster, it would be interesting to know their ages, but also how long they have been cycling too. I occasionally cycle to work, and recently cycled from Edinburgh to Sunderland for charity. I was in a group and met a lot of cyclists along the way, and I have to say that if anything I think most cyclists who have been at it for a long time are much more considerate road users than most drivers. You tend to very quickly develop a respect for the road after the first few motorists nearly knock you flying and you realise how vulnerable you are on two wheels.
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I would say, purely from personal experience, that the majority of problem cyclists I come across in London are males in their early to mid 20s.
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As someone who identifies themselves as a cyclist (although I don't go out as much as I used to on my bike), I feel certain things about the subject and I wish London mayor Boris J (as a cycle fan) would get behind similar ideas and enforce /promote them
1) cyclists should not ride on the pavement - except in a cycle lane
2) police and PCSOs etc should stop kids and grown-ups from cycling on the pavement
3) cyclists should all take a cycling proficiency test - I did mine when I was 11 and have never forgotten what I was taught.
4) cyclists should obey the rules of the road, the same as motorists have to, and get in trouble if they flaunt these rules
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1) cyclists should not ride on the pavement - except in a cycle lane
Totally agree with this. They council have actually just increased the width of the pavement around the back of my place and it is now a combined cycle/pedestrian route. Both parties can live harmoniously in this space.
I did almost have a near incident with an older guy on a bike yesterday. I was taking my dogs out for a walk and whilst approaching a pavement crossroad I noticed that there was a cyclist approaching from my right and that he would hit the cross road at about the same time as I would. Naturally I slowed down and assumed he would do too. Well my assumption was wrong - not only did he not slow down he also muttered a few things at me when he went past me. Tw@t.
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Sorry to bring this up again but have a look. It's appalling and in no way do I condone the behaviour of the bus driver but look at the cyclist. He is deliberately driving in front of the bus. The bus swerves to the right to get round him and the cyclist ALSO swerves to the right presumably still trying to get in front of the bus. Words fail me.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2102245/Bus-driver-used-vehicle-weapon-ram-cyclist-road.html
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More of the story here. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17069235
Essentially road rage on the part of the bike rider from an earlier incident (also shown), followed by road rage from the bus driver. An overreaction on the bikers part followed by a potentially deadly overreaction by the bus driver. Escalated stupidly quickly to that level. The biker did himself no favours at all (especially when you see the original incident that sparked him off), and could have stopped it escalating at any point. The Bus driver was quite rightly locked up for being a psycho also.
Essentially, road rage=bad.
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Bus drivers are pretty much high up the list of London's nightmare road users, especially now that most London bus drivers seem to be the former non-licensed, non-insured mini cab drivers who used to congregate outside nightclubs in the 90s before there was a licensing clampdown.
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17 months is ridiculous for what appears to be attempted murder.
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Bus drivers are pretty much high up the list of London's nightmare road users, especially now that most London bus drivers seem to be the former non-licensed, non-insured mini cab drivers who used to congregate outside nightclubs in the 90s before there was a licensing clampdown.
Elliot you are an idiot and your 'opinions' should carry no weight at all.
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Fight, fight!
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I don't quite get the response - it may be a bit mean to compare some London bus drivers to unlicensed mini cab drivers, but it hardly warrants being reminded that I am an idiot and my opinion counts for nothing at all - which is why I come here... :)
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I don't quite get the response - it may be a bit mean to compare some London bus drivers to unlicensed mini cab drivers, but it hardly warrants being reminded that I am an idiot and my opinion counts for nothing at all - which is why I come here... :)
i think you're right about the bus drivers. i think they get frustrated and it comes out in their driving.
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Bicycles are a very efficient means of moving around, especially in cities. We have bicycle lanes here in Cologne. I see a lot of pedestrians walk across them as if they didn't exist. A few weeks ago I was riding at speed and a woman just ran in front of me - on the bicycle lane. I hit the brakes hard and my front wheel blocked, so my back side came up and I fell head and hands forward on her. I hurt my wrists bad. I wouldn't advise to kill all pedestrians though, as sometimes I walk myself.
And yes, I cross red lights a lot with the bike, because 90% of times they are red, while nobody is using the green lane. Sorry if I use my brain.
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Road rage is a funny thing. I walk around the city a lot, bicycle whenever it's possible (not right now with a meter of snow) and drive the car occasionally. Even though I see things from all 3 perspectives regularly, I still notice that I get agitated in traffic from time to time!
Just a couple of things I try to do when in traffic:
- When driving a car, always give way to pedestrians if it's safe (not all the people do this here, some only yield if they really have to)
- When bicycling, drive according to speed limits (some cyclists overtake cars and drive like crazy), never drive on walkways and always try to anticipate what pedestrians are up by e.g. slowing down a bit (I think this is really important)
- When walking, try not to get killed by F*CKIN TAXI DRIVERS. Seriously though, I think everybody else in traffic should always yield to pedestrians.
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you've got to ask yourselves, how much pollution does a car use compared to a bike? how much physical space does a bus use compared to a bike? would you knock over a naked woman on a bike?
...
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2012/feb/17/bus-driver-cyclist-attack-video (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2012/feb/17/bus-driver-cyclist-attack-video)